Nfl Player Pulled Over Outside Hospital While Rushing To Be With Dying

[Cerebus]

Link.

[untbowler]

If everything is as the paper says the officer should be ashamed of his actions.

I feel very sorry for Moats being harassed like that when he was open and honest.

I am confused though,was it a Plano or Dallas Cop?

Very sad.

[Censored by Laurie]

If everything is as the paper says the officer should be ashamed of his actions.

I feel very sorry for Moats being harassed like that when he was open and honest.

I am confused though,was it a Plano or Dallas Cop?

Very sad.

Dallas...a Plano cop showed up about halfway into the incident and "suggested" to the Dallas cop that perhaps now was not the best time to venture off on a power trip.

[emmitt01]

I was waiting for this to show up on this board, and, true to my expectations the reaction has been about the same as that of the general public. Now, before I offer up an explanation (not a defense mind you, an explanation) for what may have been going through this officer's head let me make one thing vitally clear THE OFFICER'S DEMEANOR TO PISS POOR AND HE, AS THE AUTHORITY FIGURE, SHOULD HAVE ASSESSED THE SITUATION FAR BETTER

Now, let's look at what the officer was presented with. He was sitting in a hidden position (probably to catch people running that very light) and observed a car come to a stop, then proceed as the light was still red. He turned on his lights AND siren and observed that the vehicle did not stop, yield or give any indication that it was pulling over (spare me the "of course he didn't stop. He was going to see his dying mother-in-law" routine...you have the advantage of hindsight that this officer did not). The facts I have just described, rolling through a solid red after stopping and failure to yield to an emergency vehicle promptly, will signal...in the preponderance of situations...one of two things 1)DWI or 2)Fleeing suspect. Now, with this in mind, consider that when Moats finally does stop his vehicle (and again, we know why he rushed to the hospital, this officer did not) three people exit the vehicle. One of the first things you learn as an officer is to keep control of any/all suspects on a traffic stop. People bailing out of a car when you stop them is a big time red flag...and yes, little old ladies and men can shoot you too. Let me make this next point very clear...this is most likely the reason this officer drew his weapon. A lone officer presented with a driver, and three passengers who have all exited the vehicle must take every precaution to gain control of the situation. You'll notice on the video that the officer tells Moats' wife to get back in the car...which she refuses to do (again, we know why she was in a hurry, the officer did not). I have done this same thing countless times. I am not going to hold a conversation, argue or negotiate with you outside of your vehicle. That's what officers are trained to avoid. Moats' wife walks with her Aunt inside disregarding the officer. Clearly the officer becomes agitated at this point which the video shows...and it all goes downhill from here.

Am I trying to justify this officer's actions? No. Would I have reacted differently? You betcha (that was my Sarah Palinism for the day). Could Moats and his family have returned to their vehicle to explain their predicament? Yes, they could have. True, in a situation like this you are quite emotional and not concerned with a minor traffic violation...but when you tack that minor traffic violation onto a refusal to pull over and several people exiting a vehicle on a traffic stop you escalate the situation. Period.

Alright, fire away with your "Cops are just big bullies" and "Badges and guns don't make you Gods" and "This is why I hate cops" junk.

Oh, and a few things the media got wrong (the media hating Republicans should enjoy this). This was Moats' mother-in-law, not his mother. May seem like a minor difference but the emotional "punch" to the reader is different and how hard is fact checking really? Also, it has been claimed that the officer drew his "service revolver". This is a young officer and revolvers haven't been issued in the academy in about a decade or longer. And, finally, let's not forget that the media has ended pretty much every article with Moats' claims that "I think race did play a factor in it." Pure conjecture on the part of a man who is clearly, and justifiably, upset...not factual information. Scandal sure does sell papers though, doesn't it?

Edited March 26, 2009 by emmitt01

[bstnsportsfan3]

I was waiting for this to show up on this board, and, true to my expectations the reaction has been about the same as that of the general public. Now, before I offer up an explanation (not a defense mind you, an explanation) for what may have been going through this officer's head let me make one thing vitally clear THE OFFICER'S DEMEANOR TO PISS POOR AND HE, AS THE AUTHORITY FIGURE, SHOULD HAVE ASSESSED THE SITUATION FAR BETTER

Now, let's look at what the officer was presented with. He was sitting in a hidden position (probably to catch people running that very light) and observed a car come to a stop, then proceed as the light was still red. He turned on his lights AND siren and observed that the vehicle did not stop, yield or give any indication that it was pulling over (spare me the "of course he didn't stop. He was going to see his dying mother-in-law" routine...you have the advantage of hindsight that this officer did not). The facts I have just described, rolling through a solid red after stopping and failure to yield to an emergency vehicle promptly, will signal...in the preponderance of situations...one of two things 1)DWI or 2)Fleeing suspect. Now, with this in mind, consider that when Moats finally does stop his vehicle (and again, we know why he rushed to the hospital, this officer did not) three people exit the vehicle. One of the first things you learn as an officer is to keep control of any/all suspects on a traffic stop. People bailing out of a car when you stop them is a big time red flag...and yes, little old ladies and men can shoot you too. Let me make this next point very clear...this is most likely the reason this officer drew his weapon. A lone officer presented with a driver, and three passengers who have all exited the vehicle must take every precaution to gain control of the situation. You'll notice on the video that the officer tells Moats' wife to get back in the car...which she refuses to do (again, we know why she was in a hurry, the officer did not). I have done this same thing countless times. I am not going to hold a conversation, argue or negotiate with you outside of your vehicle. That's what officers are trained to avoid. Moats' wife walks with her Aunt inside disregarding the officer. Clearly the officer becomes agitated at this point which the video shows...and it all goes downhill from here.

Am I trying to justify this officer's actions? No. Would I have reacted differently? You betcha (that was my Sarah Palinism for the day). Could Moats and his family have returned to their vehicle to explain their predicament? Yes, they could have. True, in a situation like this you are quite emotional and not concerned with a minor traffic violation...but when you tack that minor traffic violation onto a refusal to pull over and several people exiting a vehicle on a traffic stop you escalate the situation. Period.

Alright, fire away with your "Cops are just big bullies" and "Badges and guns don't make you Gods" and "This is why I hate cops" junk.

Oh, and a few things the media got wrong (the media hating Republicans should enjoy this). This was Moats' mother-in-law, not his mother. May seem like a minor difference but the emotional "punch" to the reader is different and how hard is fact checking really? Also, it has been claimed that the officer drew his "service revolver". This is a young officer and revolvers haven't been issued in the academy in about a decade or longer. And, finally, let's not forget that the media has ended pretty much every article with Moats' claims that "I think race did play a factor in it." Pure conjecture on the part of a man who is clearly, and justifiably, upset...not factual information. Scandal sure does sell papers though, doesn't it?

Cops are just big bullies, Badges and guns don't make you Gods, This is why I hate cops!!!!!!!!

[oldguystudent]

Ice-T and N.W.A. are my heroes!

Honestly, in my limited experience with police, I've met three types.

1) Good honest cops who want to serve, but eventually become detectives, and therefore get taken off the beat.

2) Good honest cops continuing a family tradition who stay on the beat for the duration of their careers (this type seems limited to the northeast).

3) Beat cops who are never gonna' move up because they love the power trip.

Unfortunately, category three are the ones who make the news and create the negative perception.

3a) Los Angeles cops who are so grossly underfunded, understaffed, and overworked, that they have just stopped caring.

Edited March 26, 2009 by oldguystudent

[CorinthEagle]

Oh yes, after reading this there is NO WAY this was another cop on a power trip

[gangrene]

I've been waiting for this story to surface on here too. I watched the full 16+ minutes of video feed DPD released this morning. I agree with Emmitt's explanation and I do understand the officer's initial reaction. HOWEVER, that reaction and the attitude should have been reversed the very minute an explanation was offered. He refused to listen (again, I understand he may have been a bit fearful with everyone exiting the vehicle) and he was going to let NOTHING prevent him from taking his time and asserting his authority (in my best Cartman voice). Instead of investigating the story of the dying mother-in-law further, he was intent on threatening Moats with further citations for illegal parking, driving without insurance and even threatened to tow the vehicle. Even when the Plano officer asked Powell if Moats could go (after the nurse verified the dire state of Ms. Collingsworth), he continued to take his time.

And, while it may not have been Moats' mother, Officer Powell also prevented Moats' father-in-law, the father of the dying Ms. Collingsworth, from seeing his daughter alive one last time (as reported on KRLD and cbssports.com - he's the man in the blue t-shirt on the DPD video). I'm not a cop and I'm not a cop-hater. I've been pulled over for less than what Moats did and treated worse. However, I've also been very fortunate several times by being let off with warnings or less when I could have been in BIG trouble. I have actually driven off after being ticketed and been in a good mood because the officer was respectful, understanding and good natured.

Powell got one thing correct - attitude is everything. Had he exhibited a better attitude and been more understanding he wouldn't be in the most embarrassing situation in his life.

Emmitt - Can you explain to us what the policy is regarding extenuating circumstances like this? More specifically, could Powell have allowed Moats to enter the hospital and mailed the ticket(s) to him? Could he have accompanied him to the ICU? Could he have escorted him to the hospital (like he needed an escort on empty roads at 2AM)? And, last one, should he have been pursuing him in the first place, given the no-chase policy? Feel free to disregard any question you are not comfortable answering.

[emmitt01]

Emmitt - Can you explain to us what the policy is regarding extenuating circumstances like this? More specifically, could Powell have allowed Moats to enter the hospital and mailed the ticket(s) to him? Could he have accompanied him to the ICU? Could he have escorted him to the hospital (like he needed an escort on empty roads at 2AM)? And, last one, should he have been pursuing him in the first place, given the no-chase policy? Feel free to disregard any question you are not comfortable answering.

There is no policy dictating what to do in a situation like this, because there doesn't have to be. Officer discretion allows you to do anything from what this officer did to the other end of the spectrum which is making the right call and saying "sir, my best wishes for your mother-in-law's health and you are free to go."

[GreenMachine]

I was waiting for this to show up on this board, and, true to my expectations the reaction has been about the same as that of the general public. Now, before I offer up an explanation (not a defense mind you, an explanation) for what may have been going through this officer's head let me make one thing vitally clear THE OFFICER'S DEMEANOR TO PISS POOR AND HE, AS THE AUTHORITY FIGURE, SHOULD HAVE ASSESSED THE SITUATION FAR BETTER

Now, let's look at what the officer was presented with. He was sitting in a hidden position (probably to catch people running that very light) and observed a car come to a stop, then proceed as the light was still red. He turned on his lights AND siren and observed that the vehicle did not stop, yield or give any indication that it was pulling over (spare me the "of course he didn't stop. He was going to see his dying mother-in-law" routine...you have the advantage of hindsight that this officer did not). The facts I have just described, rolling through a solid red after stopping and failure to yield to an emergency vehicle promptly, will signal...in the preponderance of situations...one of two things 1)DWI or 2)Fleeing suspect. Now, with this in mind, consider that when Moats finally does stop his vehicle (and again, we know why he rushed to the hospital, this officer did not) three people exit the vehicle. One of the first things you learn as an officer is to keep control of any/all suspects on a traffic stop. People bailing out of a car when you stop them is a big time red flag...and yes, little old ladies and men can shoot you too. Let me make this next point very clear...this is most likely the reason this officer drew his weapon. A lone officer presented with a driver, and three passengers who have all exited the vehicle must take every precaution to gain control of the situation. You'll notice on the video that the officer tells Moats' wife to get back in the car...which she refuses to do (again, we know why she was in a hurry, the officer did not). I have done this same thing countless times. I am not going to hold a conversation, argue or negotiate with you outside of your vehicle. That's what officers are trained to avoid. Moats' wife walks with her Aunt inside disregarding the officer. Clearly the officer becomes agitated at this point which the video shows...and it all goes downhill from here.

Am I trying to justify this officer's actions? No. Would I have reacted differently? You betcha (that was my Sarah Palinism for the day). Could Moats and his family have returned to their vehicle to explain their predicament? Yes, they could have. True, in a situation like this you are quite emotional and not concerned with a minor traffic violation...but when you tack that minor traffic violation onto a refusal to pull over and several people exiting a vehicle on a traffic stop you escalate the situation. Period.

Alright, fire away with your "Cops are just big bullies" and "Badges and guns don't make you Gods" and "This is why I hate cops" junk.

Oh, and a few things the media got wrong (the media hating Republicans should enjoy this). This was Moats' mother-in-law, not his mother. May seem like a minor difference but the emotional "punch" to the reader is different and how hard is fact checking really? Also, it has been claimed that the officer drew his "service revolver". This is a young officer and revolvers haven't been issued in the academy in about a decade or longer. And, finally, let's not forget that the media has ended pretty much every article with Moats' claims that "I think race did play a factor in it." Pure conjecture on the part of a man who is clearly, and justifiably, upset...not factual information. Scandal sure does sell papers though, doesn't it?

yes, this could all be correct, or the cop could just be a d-bag.

[gangrene]

There is no policy dictating what to do in a situation like this, because there doesn't have to be. Officer discretion allows you to do anything from what this officer did to the other end of the spectrum which is making the right call and saying "sir, my best wishes for your mother-in-law's health and you are free to go."

Thanks for the response. That's basically what I figured but wasn't 100% sure.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

--- I have the utmost respect for police and the majority are good decent people.... but this one should be fired if the facts are even close to what is being presented... I would think all other police wouild want him gone as well..

--- I once had a scary experience with one like this when I was in college... he shot at me at 4:00 AM and I was on the job as the night person at a meat processing plant tending to the refrigeration equiptment. I had done nothing, he had not warned me , and I was the only one on the job... He then put me in handcuffs and pushed me into a police car and I was about on the way to jail... fortunately another employee drove up and claimed I worked there. He thought I was a burgler so he claimed. He was not fired... I think he would have been under today rules. A few of these guys exist and should removed to do something else. His fellow policemen should never defend this guy if things are even close to how they are stated.

--- I know several on a very personal basis and respect and understand what a difficult job it can be..... but this is ridiculious. To start with, all Moats had done was run a light (or carefully roll through it when no traffic coming if as stated) and had his wife with him... he obviously was not fleeing from a crime scene.... Unbelievably he continued to write the ticket when told by another policeman what the situation was... He is a total idiot and needs to find another job. ..something less challenging.

Edited March 26, 2009 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[Cerebus]

I don't have a problem with the officer drawing his weapon. If you bailout of a vehicle and point at an officer, you are going to get a gun pointed at you.

I have a HUGE problem when the officer refuses to either let Moats go, or tickets him quickly after nursing staff and another office explain to him the situation.

I think the PD should realize that a small number of officers with a bad attitude color the perception of all the officers who are doing a great job. If this turns into a nothing hand slap, then every dallas officer is going to have that much harder of a time doing their jobs.

Also, on the revolver front, in the last week, I have seen the media call a 10/22 called an assault rifle, and an ar15 called an AK-47. Much of the media knows squat about firearms.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

I don't have a problem with the officer drawing his weapon. If you bailout of a vehicle and point at an officer, you are going to get a gun pointed at you.

I have a HUGE problem when the officer refuses to either let Moats go, or tickets him quickly after nursing staff and another office explain to him the situation.

I think the PD should realize that a small number of officers with a bad attitude color the perception of all the officers who are doing a great job. If this turns into a nothing hand slap, then every dallas officer is going to have that much harder of a time doing their jobs.

---Also, on the revolver front, in the last week, I have seen a 10/22 called an assault rifle, and an ar15 called an AK-47. Much of the media knows squat about firearms.

--absolutely-

Re: Guns.... It has been my experience that people who live in very urban areas tend to not understand guns at all, or even the purpose of most of them. Almost all gun fanatics I know have all been urban people... not rural or semi-rural people... I own several guns but no assault weapons... WHY? ...Are they expecting a civil war?? Besides the vast majority can not even name one situation that they or anyone they know ever had a use for one. ... Most people are much more likely to shoot themselves or a family member than need an assault weapon .

Edited March 26, 2009 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[Guest JohnDenver]

I, too, have been waiting for this to pop up here. I am surprised by the responses (in a good way).

I do think it is a fairly big deal he had his gun drawn. I know the reasoning given (people bailing from the car, pointing at the officer). I watched the whole video. Here is what I saw. I saw a squad car racing to *catch* up to the SUV (that had its hazards on). I saw that once it caught up to the SUV, it was ~20 seconds until the SUV pulled over in a well lit parking lot. I also saw that this SUV (with the hazards on) pulled into the EMERGENCY ROOM bay. I saw a young lady in distress pop out with an old lady helping her. Then the driver come out. Let's piece this together.

The context of this situation was far from five young men scattered in all directions in an open field after a 10 minute direct car chase.

In stead it was two middle aged persons. Two young persons and a man waiting for them to arrive.

A SUV safely runs a light, by getting waved on my another car who could tell this dude was in distress

Hazard lights are on the whole time.. maybe they are in peril(?)

They race to the hospital emergency bay and go towards the entrance.

They immediately tell the officer the situation, not calmly, but in a "oh shit, i am losing my mother" sort of way.

This officer could have pieced together from context clues. And even when the obvious is pointed out why parties not involved directly, this officer didn't give a damn. He took his time still. "I am almost done." Unreal.

...and if your training is to watch a SUV with its hazards on that go to the emergency room and the occupants all flee TO the emergency room, then assume they are going to shoot you; your training is balls. It needs to be fixed.

Oh poor police officer. I always hear that i don't understand the stress. That I don't know the danger. You are right... but I don't have the training either. I didn't chose that career path. You did. So live up the job. Know the surroundings and know what you are dealing with. Live up to your responsibility in society. Don't make excuses. Admit you messed up. Admit you cost the chance for this young man to say good bye to a loved one.

It wasn't his mother? That is fucking numb. That is glib. My parent in-laws *are* my parents. My father died. My father in-law has been more than my father ever was in life. Try telling me at my father in-law ultimate dying day that he isn't my father and it doesn't matter as much, and you may have a fat lip to show for it.

Moats showed way more restraint that I could have shown. I would have told the officer to tow my car. Do what he had to do... call in the troops, but I am going in the hospital. I would have kept walking. There wouldn't have been anything that would stop me from telling my mother (in-law or not) good bye. That is a one time deal... you will never talk to that person again. Ever.

I am so appalled by this story. I am so appalled that this officer still stands by that he was just doing his job. I hope the karma train is in full motion for this man. I really do.

And here is my "what if" situation. What if the cop wasn't *hiding* to catch people to write tickets? Moats could have pulled up to the officer and said "please escort me." Instead, the cop hides, isn't stopping people from running the light, or preventing it by being seen, he is hiding.. to write tickets.

[Guest JohnDenver]

I heard a story today:

A car pulls up to the hospital and illegally parks. An officer comes up and tells the driver he has to move. Driver says that someone is dying, tow the car. Officer says, "throw me the keys and I will park it for you." Officer parks the car... goes inside and searches for the family to return the keys.

Way different outcome. Way different type of officer.

[Rudy]

I haven't seen the video yet, but I will be sure to post a reply to this incident shortly.

[UNT90]

This never makes the news if Moats isn't an NFL player.

The officer should have used better disgression. The problem is, disgression in police work is almost extinct. Administrators have handcuffed officers with so many needless policies that this type of action is the end result.

Emmitt, is it policy at DPD that everyone who can not produce proof of insurance MUST be issued a citation? Is it policy that their vehicle MUST be towed if they have been convicted of a no insurance violation in the past? This is policy at many area departments. If the officers are caught violating this policy, they are disciplined.

This is an officer with only three year experience. A more experienced officer would have handled the situation differently. I'm sure we all know that person at work who is a by-the-book type person who is going to follow the rules to the letter. In police work now-a-days, this is what is encouraged. This basically zaps initiative, but it sure does keep liability in check. Sad times.

Moats seems like a class act, not once dropping the "I play in the NFL" card. If only he would have said "no comment" when contacted by the media, he may have become one of my favorite players.

[UNT90]

I heard a story today:

A car pulls up to the hospital and illegally parks. An officer comes up and tells the driver he has to move. Driver says that someone is dying, tow the car. Officer says, "throw me the keys and I will park it for you." Officer parks the car... goes inside and searches for the family to return the keys.

Way different outcome. Way different type of officer.

And I'm sure we will see that on the news tonight...

[Guest JohnDenver]

And I'm sure we will see that on the news tonight...

I didn't think such an honorable profession requires act of civilized humanity to be on the news...

Besides, are police such assholes that a story of kindness would be "news" ? I certainly don't think so.

[Guest JohnDenver]

I didn't think such an honorable profession requires act of civilized humanity to be on the news...

Besides, are police such assholes that a story of kindness would be "news" ? I certainly don't think so.

Let it be known that the Mission Statement of the Dallas Police Department includes this statement..."Treat citizens and their fellow employees courteously and with the same amount of dignity with which they expect to be treated themselves" ...

Maybe this Powell is a sadist and he is just waiting for this to "blow over." No real damage done.

http://www.myspace.com/powellrob2002

[UNT90]

I didn't think such an honorable profession requires act of civilized humanity to be on the news...

Besides, are police such assholes that a story of kindness would be "news" ? I certainly don't think so.

But EVERY story of officers making mistakes, or, in this case, using bad judgement, does make the news. It would be nice if there was a little equity.

[UNT90]

Let it be known that the Mission Statement of the Dallas Police Department includes this statement..."Treat citizens and their fellow employees courteously and with the same amount of dignity with which they expect to be treated themselves" ...

Maybe this Powell is a sadist and he is just waiting for this to "blow over." No real damage done.

http://www.myspace.com/powellrob2002

Let's see. He's 25, been an officer 3 years, has 2 children and a wife. And now his family will face ridicule, he will face discipline (which will be overturned on appeal), and insults will no doubt be hurled at his kids by other kids and adults. Man, what a great $50,000 a year job. Any takers out there????

[Guest JohnDenver]

But EVERY story of officers making mistakes, or, in this case, using bad judgement, does make the news. It would be nice if there was a little equity.

Riiiight. Every mistake is reported. This wouldn't have made the news if it weren't an NFL player.

[Guest JohnDenver]

Any takers out there????

He was a taker and is a taker. He can turn in his badge and no longer be a taker. If he can't handle the decisions he is forced to make, then he needs to find another profession.

His kid are at most 3 years old. I am fairly positive other 3 year olds can't form the cognitive thoughts to string together ridicule. I am also certain adults won't insult his 3 year old..

Surely you speak in hyperbole to be the devil's advocate.

Sounds like you aren't justifying this guy, but you can't admit that is a jerk and shouldn't be an officer, because you think it is a slippery slope. That then you would be dissing all cops and justifying what some people say about them.

Notice, I haven't said "all cops" or "they always do ____". I am talking about this guy and this situation. You are talking about the profession as a whole and play the whole "whoa is me (them)" card.