N.t. Qb Thread From Dii Board

Marty · March 25, 2009

http://www.d2messageboard.com/showthread.php?t=20371

Ibleedgreen · March 25, 2009

Thanks, Marty.

H-towngreen · March 25, 2009

Nice to see peoples takes on NT who are not diehards like us.

KRAM1 · March 25, 2009

Interesting. Once again, opinions are "all over the place"...but, good to see a guy who knows what it's like to actually coach and grade out players comment.

greenminer · March 25, 2009

Interesting. Once again, opinions are "all over the place"...

Really? I think compared to this board that thread was a 2 way highway to our DFW spaghetti bowl cluster f*ck.

Edited March 25, 2009 by greenminer

The Fake Lonnie Finch · March 25, 2009

Again, his size is brought up. It always will be until he can show it isn't an issue. It ain't 1984 with 260-270 pound DT. These days, DEs are that size.

As much as we joke around about it, it will be essential to have a tight end, at minimum, added to the blocking scheme. Otherwise, we're looking at throwing walk-ons and former Glen Rose players into the QB mix early due to more concussions and broken collarbones.

Edited March 25, 2009 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

adman · March 25, 2009

Again, his size is brought up. It always will be until he can show it isn't an issue. It ain't 1984 with 260-270 pound DT. These days, DEs are that size.
As much as we joke around about it, it will be essential to have a tight end, at minimum, added to the blocking scheme. Otherwise, we're looking at throwing walk-ons and former Glen Rose players into the QB mix early due to more concussions and broken collarbones.

Here's a question - there are many RB's that are 5'9, 5'10 or so. Seems like we've had a few. Seems like K-State had one as well. They get the hell beat out of them each week but they aren't too small. Why is a QB that much more delicate? Cause he's not running full steam ahead? If we just change his position from QB to throwing RB would that make him more durable? Granted a QB doesn't need his throwing hand smashed etc but jeez I don't think they are made of glass.

LoveMG · March 25, 2009

Here's a question - there are many RB's that are 5'9, 5'10 or so. Seems like we've had a few. Seems like K-State had one as well. They get the hell beat out of them each week but they aren't too small. Why is a QB that much more delicate? Cause he's not running full steam ahead? If we just change his position from QB to throwing RB would that make him more durable? Granted a QB doesn't need his throwing hand smashed etc but jeez I don't think they are made of glass.

previous shoulder surgery and a concussion make him more delicate until he proves otherwise. i think he is tougher than most his size and he will be a fine qb as long as he does stay healthy. it is the other 21 positions i worry more about.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · March 26, 2009

Here's a question - there are many RB's that are 5'9, 5'10 or so. Seems like we've had a few. Seems like K-State had one as well. They get the hell beat out of them each week but they aren't too small. Why is a QB that much more delicate? Cause he's not running full steam ahead? If we just change his position from QB to throwing RB would that make him more durable? Granted a QB doesn't need his throwing hand smashed etc but jeez I don't think they are made of glass.

Because they're not skinny. They have muscle and thickness. Riley has neither. He's just a short, skinny kid. It's no big deal. The mass to protect him just isn't there. He's just not thick.

So, in high school, he had his collarbone broken. In his first year at UNT, he suffered a concussion. There's nothing you can do about it. Each person's physiology will only take on so much more new mass...without steriods.

The small running backs you are talking about aren't skinny little guys. They usually have very thick thighs, thick arms and torsos - what you'd call "stocky." Riley isn't that.

Also, running backs are normally running with blockers in front of them. A guy might reach in a grab an ankle or grab onto a running back through a mass of other bodies at the line of scrimmage. The shots QBs take are often direct, and without warning. That's why it's important to have tight ends and fullbacks (Todd Dodge is now half way there).

The kid you talk about from K-State is Darren Sproles. He was a thick little guy with speed...who is doing very well in the NFL. Riley looks nothing like him physically. Like Barry Sanders, he's muscular from head to toe with thick thighs:

KRAM1 · March 26, 2009

OK, so no kid ever "filled out" once he got to college????? Geeeeeezzzzzzzz...if Riley were 6' 4" and weighed 250 lbs some people on this board would just find something else to criticize him about BEFORE he ever takes a snap as UNT's starting QB. UN-BE-LIEVE-ABLE!

You guys sound like "trash talkers" playing for the visiting team!

The Fake Lonnie Finch · March 26, 2009

OK, so no kid ever "filled out" once he got to college????? Geeeeeezzzzzzzz...if Riley were 6' 4" and weighed 250 lbs some people on this board would just find something else to criticize him about BEFORE he ever takes a snap as UNT's starting QB. UN-BE-LIEVE-ABLE!
You guys sound like "trash talkers" playing for the visiting team!

No, if he were 6-4, 250, there'd be no problem. He's not. But, at 6-4, 250, I'd rather have him at tight end or defensive end, anyway.

GreenN'walinsVet · March 26, 2009

No, if he were 6-4, 250, there'd be no problem. He's not. But, at 6-4, 250, I'd rather have him at tight end or defensive end, anyway.

Not to mention if Riley was 6-4, 250 he wouldn't be playing at North Texas. He would be in Spring Practice down in Austin with a very good chance of unseating Mr. McCoy.

The reason Riley is at NT is because of his size bar none. No one questions his athletic ability or QB skills, the only real question mark at this point is his size. I know there have been a few random cases of small QB's that have been successful, but i promise you, there are more misses than hits in this area.

H-towngreen · March 26, 2009

I think that his height is something that he will have to overcome. But I don't think it's as big as a problem as some others. He is not trying to QB a team in the SEC or Big 12. I think being in Belt gives him that much more opportunity to succeed. Riley will be able to give us some options that Vizza didn't really do when rushing the ball, and I think that we will prolly see some Todd moving the pocket and having Riley roll out more often than the last few years.

One question for everyone. It seems as though we didn't attack downfield last season. Most all passes were within 10 yds or so. Do you think that we see Riley throwing it downfield more often this season?

The Fake Lonnie Finch · March 26, 2009

Not to mention if Riley was 6-4, 250 he wouldn't be playing at North Texas. He would be in Spring Practice down in Austin with a very good chance of unseating Mr. McCoy.
The reason Riley is at NT is because of his size bar none. No one questions his athletic ability or QB skills, the only real question mark at this point is his size. I know there have been a few random cases of small QB's that have been successful, but i promise you, there are more misses than hits in this area.

Right. But, for some reason, pointing it out means you hate Riley. At his current size, Mack Brown would have moved him to DB or WR so he could get on the field. And, again, it's no big deal. High school quarterbacks who are on the skinny side get moved all the time when they get to college, mostly to DB where you need your best athletes in the college game.

TCU's Gary Patterson has made a career by moving high school prep stars to the defensive side of the ball. That's why the Horned Frogs defense is so lethal despite being undersized. They're so fast and athletic. The guy who led OU in tackles last year was a redshirt refreshman who was a runningback in high school and played almost no defense at all as a prep.

Noe of us hate Riley. We want UNT to win. Some of us just look at the percentages more than others. And, the odds aren't good for a guy his size playing QB on this level. As I posted last season and earlier this year, I'd love to see him at flanker and returning punts. It's where he'd best be able to use his athletic ability. But, it's not going to happen.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · March 26, 2009

I think that his height is something that he will have to overcome. But I don't think it's as big as a problem as some others. He is not trying to QB a team in the SEC or Big 12. I think being in Belt gives him that much more opportunity to succeed. Riley will be able to give us some options that Vizza didn't really do when rushing the ball, and I think that we will prolly see some Todd moving the pocket and having Riley roll out more often than the last few years.
One question for everyone. It seems as though we didn't attack downfield last season. Most all passes were within 10 yds or so. Do you think that we see Riley throwing it downfield more often this season?

Yes, obviously because we have more speed at WR than at anytime in the past. It's just a matter of whether RIley has the arm strength to get it there, and get it here accurately.

gangrene · March 26, 2009

No, if he were 6-4, 250, there'd be no problem. He's not. But, at 6-4, 250, I'd rather have him at tight end or defensive end, anyway.

OK TFLF, I'm not saying I disagree with your assessment. However, I am also choosing not to form (and publish) an unwavering negative opinion of Riley before he has even had a legitimate chance to prove/disprove himself at this level. Oftentimes, what's written on paper doesn't translate to what takes place on the field. That is why we play the games. If you're correct in your opinion that Riley will not be able to overcome his size disadvantage, I'm sure we'll hear all about how you told us that would be the case. BUT, I hope you will also come on here and eat a bit of crow if Riley turns out to be as good as his high school resume.

H-towngreen · March 26, 2009

At his current size, Mack Brown would have moved him to DB or WR so he could get on the field.
TCU's Gary Patterson has made a career by moving high school prep stars to the defensive side of the ball. That's why the Horned Frogs defense is so lethal despite being undersized. They're so fast and athletic. The guy who led OU in tackles last year was a redshirt refreshman who was a runningback in high school and played almost no defense at all as a prep.

What!?!?! Wait, so you're saying that at UT Riley would have been a WR? According to NT2012 he was only taking up a spot at WR from someone more deserving.

I like what Patterson has done with his D, by moving athletes to that side of the ball. On that same note, Dodge has taken that same path as well. It takes a while for the guys to grow into their roles, but I think that it will pay off in the long run.

UNT90 · March 26, 2009

Yes, obviously because we have more speed at WR than at anytime in the past. It's just a matter of whether RIley has the arm strength to get it there, and get it here accurately.

I agree on arm strength. The TWO MAJOR questions about Riley are size and arm strength. Other questions would be reading college defenses and adjusting to the speed of the college game.

Riley has thrown one pass in college competition. I realize it's the off season, but all this speculation about what he will become is just that, speculation.

Can't we do something more constructive, like start a thread predicting win/loss record for next season? Or maybe more debate about the seating capacity of the new stadium.

Edited March 26, 2009 by UNT90

The Fake Lonnie Finch · March 26, 2009

What!?!?! Wait, so you're saying that at UT Riley would have been a WR? According to NT2012 he was only taking up a spot at WR from someone more deserving.
I like what Patterson has done with his D, by moving athletes to that side of the ball. On that same note, Dodge has taken that same path as well. It takes a while for the guys to grow into their roles, but I think that it will pay off in the long run.

Um, yeah. At Texas, he'd beef up the way Colt McCoy has. He'd also have the benefit of a wide receivers coach with close to two decades coaching receivers at the I-A/FBS level. The guy who coached the ACC's all-time leading receiver when he was at Wake Forest and who coached Reggie Williams at Washington. So, yes. Given the overall coaching environment he'd have been in down at UT, he'd have been a receiver - and probably a good one.

Our training table and S&C program is nothing like a UT...and our offensive coaching staff is loaded down with high school guys. So, basically, he's gettiing little more here than he'd already gotten at Southlake. Which is fine if his competition was still going to be against high school teams. But, we're not. He's being groomed by high school coaches to play at the FBS level of college. It would have been vastly different for him at UT.