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Arkansas State (2/26/09)

CMJ

By CMJ
in Mean Green Basketball

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aprice Enthusiast

aprice

Posted
Posted (edited)

The 3's fell for ASU late in the game... a little scary, but the game never out of reach.... I still wish we could close better on these blow out type games.

Well, most of the time you don't anticipate a team making seven 3 point shots in 3 minutes. I think they closed it out very well... had it not been for the excellent free throw shooting at the end, asu could have come back.

Edited by aprice
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UNT90 Newbie

UNT90

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Knowing what we have coming back next year, I assume that we would be the heavy favorite in the West in 2010. The problem is I don't know what everyone else brings back next year, and I'm not motivated to do the research. Anyone??

Oh, and please, for the love of Deon, sign a POINT GUARD!!

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GrandGreen Grand Master

GrandGreen

Posted
Posted

Knowing what we have coming back next year, I assume that we would be the heavy favorite in the West in 2010. The problem is I don't know what everyone else brings back next year, and I'm not motivated to do the research. Anyone??

Oh, and please, for the love of Deon, sign a POINT GUARD!!

I keep seeing this reference to poor point guard play. In case you haven't noticed NT has a good getting better point guard in Dominique Johnson. If you can't tell by watching the game, then look at the statistics. Johnson is currently sixth in the conference play with 3.89 assists a game and seventh in assists to turnover ration at 1.73. Not great numbers but far from poor. Also in a comparison with prior NT point guards, Johnson does quite well. When you add the fact that Johnson is also a very good scorer for a point, you can make the case that Johnson is not only a good pg but one of the best at NT in the recent era.

year name apg topg

2003-4 Jerome Rogers 2.5 2.0

2004-5 Isaac Hines 3.7 1.8

2005-6 Isaac Hines 2.4 1.6

2006-7 Ben Bell 3.1 2.1

2007-8 Ben Bell 3.4 2.3

2008-9 Dom. Johnson 3.9 2.3

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greenminer Grand Master

greenminer

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I keep seeing this reference to poor point guard play. In case you haven't noticed NT has a good getting better point guard in Dominique Johnson. If you can't tell by watching the game, then look at the statistics. Johnson is currently sixth in the conference play with 3.89 assists a game and seventh in assists to turnover ration at 1.73. Not great numbers but far from poor. Also in a comparison with prior NT point guards, Johnson does quite well. When you add the fact that Johnson is also a very good scorer for a point, you can make the case that Johnson is not only a good pg but one of the best at NT in the recent era.

year name apg topg

2003-4 Jerome Rogers 2.5 2.0

2004-5 Isaac Hines 3.7 1.8

2005-6 Isaac Hines 2.4 1.6

2006-7 Ben Bell 3.1 2.1

2007-8 Ben Bell 3.4 2.3

2008-9 Dom. Johnson 3.9 2.3

I don't think anyone is knocking on what we have. JJ does a great job of taking these athletes and molding them/finding chemistry. I think what we'd all agree on is getting that kid out of high school that is built as a pure pg, with a pass-first approach to the game, sees the floor well, etc.

I love the athletes we have, and Johnson is doing well. But this offense would be unstoppable with somebody who can see the floor well and push the tempo. Is White more valuable at the 2?

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Censored by Laurie Veteran

Censored by Laurie

Posted
Posted

I keep seeing this reference to poor point guard play. In case you haven't noticed NT has a good getting better point guard in Dominique Johnson. If you can't tell by watching the game, then look at the statistics. Johnson is currently sixth in the conference play with 3.89 assists a game and seventh in assists to turnover ration at 1.73. Not great numbers but far from poor. Also in a comparison with prior NT point guards, Johnson does quite well. When you add the fact that Johnson is also a very good scorer for a point, you can make the case that Johnson is not only a good pg but one of the best at NT in the recent era.

year name apg topg

2003-4 Jerome Rogers 2.5 2.0

2004-5 Isaac Hines 3.7 1.8

2005-6 Isaac Hines 2.4 1.6

2006-7 Ben Bell 3.1 2.1

2007-8 Ben Bell 3.4 2.3

2008-9 Dom. Johnson 3.9 2.3

His floor game is certainly coming along, save for the UALR game. That said, he's not a true point guard...if you want stats for that look at Collin and Josh's scoring numbers...and while you can certainly get away with playing him as the lead 1, its not ideal, for either UNT or Dom...especially considering the pint sized back-court that leaves you with.

If JJ doesn't sign a point, we'll still be very good next season. I just personally believe that if we sign a pass-first, big point guard (read, Marcus Brister), start him next to Josh at the 2, and move Dom to the sixth man role, where he is capable of handling the point or scoring from the 2 that this team could be outstanding.

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UNT90 Newbie

UNT90

Posted
Posted

I keep seeing this reference to poor point guard play. In case you haven't noticed NT has a good getting better point guard in Dominique Johnson. If you can't tell by watching the game, then look at the statistics. Johnson is currently sixth in the conference play with 3.89 assists a game and seventh in assists to turnover ration at 1.73. Not great numbers but far from poor. Also in a comparison with prior NT point guards, Johnson does quite well. When you add the fact that Johnson is also a very good scorer for a point, you can make the case that Johnson is not only a good pg but one of the best at NT in the recent era.

year name apg topg

2003-4 Jerome Rogers 2.5 2.0

2004-5 Isaac Hines 3.7 1.8

2005-6 Isaac Hines 2.4 1.6

2006-7 Ben Bell 3.1 2.1

2007-8 Ben Bell 3.4 2.3

2008-9 Dom. Johnson 3.9 2.3

Dom is fine as a combo guard, playing 5-10 minutes max as a point. This team has no true point guard. Dom is being forced to play a role that is not best for he or the team. Stats are great, but I've seen with my own eyes his play, and it's not the play of a point guard. I also agree that this team will be very good next year, but could be very special with the addition of a true point guard.

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GrandGreen Grand Master

GrandGreen

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Well guys, name one point in recent NT history that you think is better than Johnson. I don't think NT is going to get a Jason Kidd like pg anytime soon. I am not sure what starting two small players at guard has to do with the merit of the point guard. Or for that matter what Dennis and White production has to do with Johnson's play. White is having a horrible shooting year, it is not he is not getting the shots but he can't hit many. Dennis likewise is having a poor shooting year and the point guard has little to do with Dennis's ill advised drives to the basket. I would also like to see a good pg freshman recruit to backup Johnson next year.

I guess everyone sees a game a little difference, and it easy to blame the pg for any team deficiencies. If you won't to blame the pg for Dennis and White's shooting, I guess you have to give him credit for the open looks and shooting of McCoy, Thompson and Tremiel. I assume we will continue to disagree but I think the only opinion that matters is JJ's and I think he is happy with Johnson's play. My predictdion is that Johnson will be a premier pg in the league next year.

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chrisfisher Enthusiast

chrisfisher

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Well guys, name one point in recent NT history that you think is better than Johnson. I don't think NT is going to get a Jason Kidd like pg anytime soon. I am not sure what starting two small players at guard has to do with the merit of the point guard. Or for that matter what Dennis and White production has to do with Johnson's play. White is having a horrible shooting year, it is not he is not getting the shots but he can't hit many. Dennis likewise is having a poor shooting year and the point guard has little to do with Dennis's ill advised drives to the basket. I would also like to see a good pg freshman recruit to backup Johnson next year.

I guess everyone sees a game a little difference, and it easy to blame the pg for any team deficiencies. If you won't to blame the pg for Dennis and White's shooting, I guess you have to give him credit for the open looks and shooting of McCoy, Thompson and Tremiel. I assume we will continue to disagree but I think the only opinion that matters is JJ's and I think he is happy with Johnson's play. My predictdion is that Johnson will be a premier pg in the league next year.

I see the situation with Dom as you do. I do not think his play is appreciated. He is probably the fastest player in the league, plays the full press very well, and dishes out some nice assists with low turnovers. He also is one of the most accurate shooters on the team and I don't think he should be faulted for this. I predicted very early in the season that Dom should take over the point with White at the 2. But as others have told me, you and I must not have a complete and full understanding of the game if we don't believe that we need a new point guard.

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Censored by Laurie Veteran

Censored by Laurie

Posted
Posted

I see the situation with Dom as you do. I do not think his play is appreciated. He is probably the fastest player in the league, plays the full press very well, and dishes out some nice assists with low turnovers. He also is one of the most accurate shooters on the team and I don't think he should be faulted for this. I predicted very early in the season that Dom should take over the point with White at the 2. But as others have told me, you and I must not have a complete and full understanding of the game if we don't believe that we need a new point guard.

Christ you guys are taking this personally. I probably have been the most vocal in the "need a point guard" community...early in the season the play at the point was suspect, at best...the biggest part of that was JJ trying to figure out who his point guard would be, Josh or Dom...the NMST game settled that discussion...a game Dom went 6:1 assist to turnover. Since he's had some stellar performances, but also some very mediocre games (UALR) and some very questionable decision, especially late in games. I'm fine with chalking the inconsistancy to it being his first year in a new system...and I agree with you guys that Dom could be a very nice lead PG here with a full season under his belt.

However...Dom could be an amazing combo off the bench...McCoy/Dennis-esque scoring ability paired with the ability to more than aptly run the point...that is a rare and valuable weapon. I made the reference to the small backcourt b/c it does put us at a disadvantage, offensivly, but especially defensivly. Adding a big, true point guard...like Marcus Brister at Weatherford College (whom we have offered) would give you a guy who relishes his role as a playmaker and passer and it would give you the ability to still play Dom and Josh for 25-30 minutes a night while at the same time minimizing the time you have two sub-5'10" players on the floor at the same time.

I also made reference to Josh and Collin's shooting this season...a point guard doesn't just pass, but he sets up scorers...Ben was great at getting Collin and Josh the ball in spots where they had clean looks and didn't have to create their own shots as much as they are this season, as it is not their strength...unlike McCoy and Thompson.

I believe I'm at the point where I'm OK with moving forward next season with Dom on the ball...I still think we'll be really good with his and others continued development. But I think this team could really be something special with a Brister-like player added to this roster...not just a premier SBC team, but a team in the top tier of mid-major programs in the country.

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greenminer Grand Master

greenminer

Posted
Posted (edited)

A "raise the bar" opinion:

Is demanding a true point in the same league as getting a BCS pro-style QB to UNT? There are lots of pass-happy kids out there, I just wonder if some coaches don't look as hard as they could. JJ may or may not be that case...

Did anyone see WV and Cinci play? WV had a kid named Ruoff that was making unbelievable passes in and around those Bearcats. Bob Knight was loving him.

UTEP has had a great tradition of these kind of guys, oddly this year almost being an exception. Julyan Stone is taking care of the ball and has that fantastic ass-turnover ratio but doesn't see the floor as good as I'd like. Before him there was Filibito Rivera, probably the greatest college PG I've ever seen, and certainly the most unheralded on the national scale.

Johnson may be the best we've had in a while? I didn't really know much about basketball when I first started following UNT (Chris Davis era), so I don't recall. Maybe getting that true PG is not a priority with JJ?

But now that I know what a good PG can do for a team, I can - with all due respect to how good this team is gelling - say we don't have him on the roster. I think having a kid like that could take us on a long Belt streak and some more NCAA trips.

Edited by greenminer
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