Tyler Stadford

[H-towngreen]

What is the basis of his appeal to be able to play this year. I know it is centered around Katrina, but wouldn't he have been in high school during that time? How would that affect his college eligiblity? I heard from others on the board that others have won on this appeal as well. I really hope that he is able to play this year as it seem he would be an immediate impact player for us. Good size at 6'2 and speed to boot. I heard someone state that Stoops was even getting involved on his behalf to let him play this year. Anyone one have any background on this appeal, timeline on when we may hear something?

[SilverEagle]

What is the basis of his appeal to be able to play this year. I know it is centered around Katrina, but wouldn't he have been in high school during that time? How would that affect his college eligiblity? I heard from others on the board that others have won on this appeal as well. I really hope that he is able to play this year as it seem he would be an immediate impact player for us. Good size at 6'2 and speed to boot. I heard someone state that Stoops was even getting involved on his behalf to let him play this year. Anyone one have any background on this appeal, timeline on when we may hear something?

That must mean that we are not going to play OU during the time that this young man is eligible to play for us. OR, if we are going to play OU during this time, Stoops has already determined that there is no way that this young man could be a difference maker in the game.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

That's not true. Stoops is just trying to help the kid. With or without him, we still wouldn't be competitive with OU. The kid has speed and size, but OU had a roster full of speed and size. There, he's lost in the mix; here, he's a true hope and T.Y. Hilton-type threat in this conference.

Stoops has recruited down here for years with K-State, UF, and OU. He knows Dodge well enough to help him out. It wouldn't have shocked me if Stoops would have hired him a few years back.

In fact, it would have been a good place to Dodge to cut his teeth on the upper-echelon level of the college football world. Plus, Stoops' assistants are always getting head coaching jobs. It would have been a good pathway for Dodge to move up - certainly a smoother one than he's on now. As it is, I wish Dodge would do what Stoops does and have co-offensive coordinators, one for the pass game and another for the run game. I just think that's the future of the game on both sides of the ball.

Look, it's not breaking news that I'm no fan of Dodge as the UNT head football coach at this point in time in UNT's history. I think a better hire could have been hire. And, easily. The man wasn't ready for what faced him on the field (speed and scheme-wise) or off the field (players' personal issues and actual criticism from a fanbase and press). Saying you're ready and being ready are two different things.

But, these guys, with rare exception, are in a network that is never-ending and they're always doing things behind the scenes to help one another out. We had a guy who used to play QB at SMU in our office yesterday discussing a merger. He discussed games, people he knew from before, during, and after his playing time. They're all still friends and associates, no matter what jersey they wore back in the day. Hating is largely a fan thing. The players grew up playing with and against one another, visiting camps together, working out over the summers together. They rarely begrudge one another the way opposing fans do.

I can easily see Stoops going to bat for Dodge on the Stadford issue. And, I think he and Castiglione have enough cache with the NCAA to get it done. They've been able to gets sixth years for a few players, and won an appeal in the Bomar/Quinn sanction deal. In short, they know how to play the game adminitratively. I'd bet we'll see Tyler not only suited up, but starting for us in the fall.

Edited February 18, 2009 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

[eulesseagle]

so finch you are saying that TD regressed from the time he was with DD to high school and back to d1?

[MDH]

That must mean that we are not going to play OU during the time that this young man is eligible to play for us. OR, if we are going to play OU during this time, Stoops has already determined that there is no way that this young man could be a difference maker in the game.

With or without him we're still UNT and they're still OU. I doubt Stoops worries about if we're on the schedule.

[GoMeanGreen1999]

I doubt Stoops worries about if we're on the schedule.

With a defense this past season that was worse than the 79 in season 1 to OU, you are correct.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

so finch you are saying that TD regressed from the time he was with DD to high school and back to d1?

TD never coached for DD. He coached I-AA under Dennis Parker. Then bailed out into the high school game again for over a decade. He never was at a I-A level school as a coach. And, check back to the results of the 1992 and 1993 season: we went 4-7 both years. So, it's not like he was burning up the Southland Conference with his offense back then either. Again, just another exmpale of the ridiculous myth that Dodge had some sort of magic offensive formula that was ever proven at any level of college football.

Look, you had to seriously buy into alot of bullstuff to think he was going to get this thing off the ground based on his "genius" alone. Sadly, many people did. Many here took victory after victory over Grapevine, Euless, and the like to translate into success against I-A school. Well, so far, it has been godd for one whole win in two years over a full-fledged FBS/I-A level school. One.

But, it's hard to sit back and blame him totally. He'd never been up at this level, so how could he have known. What you can blame him for is not making more changes across the board after the first season bombed. Changes in the coaching staff - on both sides of the ball, not just the defense. Changes in the offensive gameplan - mixing in a credible run game, throwing in some more blockers in the way of fullbacks and tight ends to help a young line.

I guess, in the end, you have to take him at his word from press conference Number 1 - he didn't have a college football plan, or a high school football plan, but just a football plan. Oh, okay. Brilliant. But, I now agree with him 100% - he certainly didn't have a college football plan.

[eulessismore]

TD never coached for DD. He coached I-AA under Dennis Parker. Then bailed out into the high school game again for over a decade. He never was at a I-A level school as a coach. And, check back to the results of the 1992 and 1993 season: we went 4-7 both years. So, it's not like he was burning up the Southland Conference with his offense back then either. Again, just another exmpale of the ridiculous myth that Dodge had some sort of magic offensive formula that was ever proven at any level of college football.

Look, you had to seriously buy into alot of bullstuff to think he was going to get this thing off the ground based on his "genius" alone. Sadly, many people did. Many here took victory after victory over Grapevine, Euless, and the like to translate into success against I-A school. Well, so far, it has been godd for one whole win in two years over a full-fledged FBS/I-A level school. One.

But, it's hard to sit back and blame him totally. He'd never been up at this level, so how could he have known. What you can blame him for is not making more changes across the board after the first season bombed. Changes in the coaching staff - on both sides of the ball, not just the defense. Changes in the offensive gameplan - mixing in a credible run game, throwing in some more blockers in the way of fullbacks and tight ends to help a young line.

I guess, in the end, you have to take him at his word from press conference Number 1 - he didn't have a college football plan, or a high school football plan, but just a football plan. Oh, okay. Brilliant. But, I now agree with him 100% - he certainly didn't have a college football plan.

Well, he did seem to be there for big improvements in scoring offense over 1991; also, Mitch Maher, who played from 1991 to 1994 (of course, coached by Dodge for 2 of those years), had a good enough year that we won the Southland in 1994, under Matt Simon.

I think the problems in 1992 and 1993 were the same as in 2007 and 2008 to a large extent; lack of defense. I don't think that was really Dodge's responsibility in the 1990's; it was in the last two years. I do agree with what you said in another thread that the new assistant coach hires this year may improve our defense enough to result in 2 or 3 more wins; the attention to the defensive line this off season is actually the reason for any (yes, more than any time since Dodge came here) optimism I have.

Do I care whether the Dodge offense puts up big numbers? Not really. Like many, I've come to the conclusion that defense, special teams, and ball control can win; and winning will make fans forget how they won. If the defense stars, fine by me. If they don't improve, nothing else really matters. By the way, his SLC teams only played Euless once. Like many Euless residents, I don't want to talk about that game. Nothing you say can make me comment any further on that.

Oh yeah...how did we get from Stradford to here? Oh yes, the coaching fraternity thing. Yup; you're right on two counts, there's a coaching fraternity and no, they don't care what we think about it. Did anyone notice that someone said we'd never recruit out of Cedar Hill because of Ron Mendoza, and then, we signed someone out of Cedar Hill? I knew that nothing that happened with Mendoza here at UNT would keep any Cedar Hill recruits away from North Texas. That was all just fans thinking coaches can't get over things.

Edited February 19, 2009 by eulessismore

[eulesseagle]

so finch....i take it you don't like TD?

without going into a prolonged discourse, point by point, i will just say you are wrong on many issues....that....as a supporter of TD.....have been cussed, discussed and regurgitated innumerable times over the last two seasons.

we do agree on one point, finch........and that is we disagree.

[CaribbeanGreen]

so finch....i take it you don't like TD?

without going into a prolonged discourse, point by point, i will just say you are wrong on many issues....that....as a supporter of TD.....have been cussed, discussed and regurgitated innumerable times over the last two seasons.

we do agree on one point, finch........and that is we disagree.

But what about this Dodge under DD business? what was that about?

[Green59]

Look, it's not breaking news that I'm no fan of Dodge as the UNT head football coach at this point in time in UNT's history. I think a better hire could have been hire. And, easily. The man wasn't ready for what faced him on the field (speed and scheme-wise) or off the field (players' personal issues and actual criticism from a fanbase and press). Saying you're ready and being ready are two different things.

How did the the thread of Tyler Stradford, OU Transfer and discussions if he would be eligible for the 2009 season end up going to discussions of TD as the coach???

[GoMeanGreen1999]

so finch....i take it you don't like TD?

without going into a prolonged discourse, point by point, i will just say you are wrong on many issues....that....as a supporter of TD.....have been cussed, discussed and regurgitated innumerable times over the last two seasons.

we do agree on one point, finch........and that is we disagree.

Do you believe that he will be able to turn this ship around and bring it back up to floating again? How many wins do you feel like he needs to have this year to keep him around for a fourth season, or do you feel like it is a given that he will be here all 5 years? Did you ever read Tasty's numbers about coaches starting out this bad?

[eulesseagle]

99-

1. TD will be here five years, at least.

2. TD will win 4 or 5 games in his 3rd season.

3. TD will be "at" +/- one at .500 in his 4th season.

4. TD will win about 7-9 games in his 5th season.

5. Tasty is another blogger with another opinion and eye wrenching stats that, in reality, do not show those who broke the odds.....let's say like the Tom Landry situation when he began coaching for the Cowboys. Stats can be manipulated and anything can be proved with the same bundle of figures.....heck, that was the first thing my stats prof told the class the first day. So, Tasty.....nothing personal......but i still believe my prof's statement. It was funny because those of us who were able to manipulate our stats to show "our" desirable outcomes were able to manipulate our prof into giving us better grades.

6. If another school has not hired TD away from NT our current admin will renew his contract.

7. After year 5 NT will have winning records until TD decides to leave the fertile green fields we call denton.

[UNTLifer]

How did the the thread of Tyler Stradford, OU Transfer and discussions if he would be eligible for the 2009 season end up going to discussions of TD as the coach???

TFLF posted in this thread to show us how much more knowledgable he is about college football than any other fan on this board, and two, he can't post without trashing Coach Dodge. It's in his make up.

[greenminer]

TFLF posted in this thread to show us how much more knowledgable he is about college football than any other fan on this board, and two, he can't post without trashing Coach Dodge. It's in his make up.

Why stop there? Let's take down every other poster who insist on following him along.

Edited February 19, 2009 by greenminer

[Quoner]

99-

1. TD will be here five years, at least.

2. TD will win 4 or 5 games in his 3rd season.

3. TD will be "at" +/- one at .500 in his 4th season.

4. TD will win about 7-9 games in his 5th season.

5. Tasty is another blogger with another opinion and eye wrenching stats that, in reality, do not show those who broke the odds.....let's say like the Tom Landry situation when he began coaching for the Cowboys. Stats can be manipulated and anything can be proved with the same bundle of figures.....heck, that was the first thing my stats prof told the class the first day. So, Tasty.....nothing personal......but i still believe my prof's statement. It was funny because those of us who were able to manipulate our stats to show "our" desirable outcomes were able to manipulate our prof into giving us better grades.

6. If another school has not hired TD away from NT our current admin will renew his contract.

7. After year 5 NT will have winning records until TD decides to leave the fertile green fields we call denton.

If #2 is not equal to or greater than 6, number one cannot be true. I can prove it by induction if you'd like.

Nothing beats people who can't do math knocking a guy who can do actuarial science and pass complex probability examinations and what not. Especially one that dismisses a proven scientific method that acknowledges its own limitations in its very definition.

So, if you can show where he screwed up the analysis or the flaws in the research besides a non-significant amount of anecdotal exceptions, have at it. Until then, the whole "people using math generalities they don't understand to refute math they don't understand" thing will have to suffice.

Edited February 19, 2009 by Quoner

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

But what about this Dodge under DD business? what was that about?

Euless asked me if I thought TD regressed between his time with DD and his return to UNT. I pointed out that TD was never a coach under DD. Nor was he ever on the coaching staff of UNT during a winning season.

Many people here have some challenge with reading comprehension. So, here's the breakdown (read slowly...or, as Irwin M. Fletcher suggests, "Find someone who can read it for you."):

(1) A former OU player is transferring to UNT.

(2) That player could be given a waiver to play this year because of circumstances related to Hurricane Katrina.

(3) OU is helping with the appeal.

(4) OU has a history of success in asking for things from the NCAA, such as requests for sixth years and appeals from sanctions (unlike our athletic department), so it's good that they're helping us.

(5) There is a history between Stoops and Dodge that makes it plausible that OU would be helping us.

(6) Todd Dodge is the coach of UNT, where the player from OU is transferring.

(7) Someone remarked along the lines that OU was only helping because they don't have us on their schedule while the kid will be here.

(8) Follow up remarks doubted that OU was ever worried about us being on their schedule no matter who was on our roster.

(9) A summary of Dodge's poor performance here as both an assistant and head coach were used to underscore the point further - OU has nothing to fear in helping a player in need because we don't have a coaching staff that could handle gameplanning against anyone except Western Kentucky anyway. And, even then, the games come down the final possessions.

(10) Those who worship Dodge and his history of losing and mediocrity everwhere except Southlake were predictably defending him. Those of us who understand he's a snake oil salesman predictably countered with facts, the anathema of Dodge and his defenders.

Edited February 19, 2009 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

[Mean Green 93-98]

Those of us who understand he's a snake oil salesman predictably countered with facts, the anathema of Dodge and his defenders.

I don't worship Dodge, but I would like to see some facts to back up that statement.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

I don't worship Dodge, but I would like to see some facts to back up that statement.

You mean like his overall record at UNT? His tenure here as an assistant on two squads with losing records at the I-AA level? That kind of fact?

[Mean Green 93-98]

You mean like his overall record at UNT? His tenure here as an assistant on two squads with losing records at the I-AA level? That kind of fact?

"Snake oil salesman" implies intentional dishonesty. He has failed to live up to his own expectations during his first two years at UNT--just about every coach who has been at UNT has failed to live up to his own expectations. To back up your statement, you are going to have to demonstrate how Todd Dodge intentionally misled the University of North Texas and its supporters.

[Quoner]

"Snake oil salesman" implies intentional dishonesty. He has failed to live up to his own expectations during his first two years at UNT--just about every coach who has been at UNT has failed to live up to his own expectations. To back up your statement, you are going to have to demonstrate how Todd Dodge intentionally misled the University of North Texas and its supporters.

Now, he could have meant that he literally bottled and sold snake oil. I heard Dickey used to sell poached ivory to pay off his TV debts.

[greenminer]

Now, he could have meant that he literally bottled and sold snake oil. I heard Dickey used to sell poached ivory to pay off his TV debts.

That was my initial interpretation.

[UNTLifer]

(9) A summary of Dodge's poor performance here as both an assistant and head coach were used to underscore the point further - OU has nothing to fear in helping a player in need because we don't have a coaching staff that could handle gameplanning against anyone except Western Kentucky anyway. And, even then, the games come down the final possessions.

(10) Those who worship Dodge and his history of losing and mediocrity everwhere except Southlake were predictably defending him. Those of us who understand he's a snake oil salesman predictably countered with facts, the anathema of Dodge and his defenders.

Look at the offensive numbers that were posted while he was here, or look up Mitch Maher's stats during the time Dodge was the OC. Maher didn't just fall into the school's Hall of Fame and Dodge was responsible for the offensive performance not the entire teams.

I wasn't defending Dodge, just pointing out your hate of the man and the fact that you will skew the facts to fit your arguement. Earlier, when I have defended Dodge, I have done so because the man basically had only one recruiting class under his belt and I think he deserves the chance to have this class mature beyond Freshmen/RS Freshman status before I pass judgement. I think he should be given the opportunity to install his system with the players he recruited to run his system, which is night and day from the previous staff's.

My greatest issue with most of your posts is the condescending tone and comments that come across as you thinking you know more than anyone else on this board.

Take your own advice and learn reading comprehension or have someone read it and explain it to you.

[gangrene]

What is the basis of his appeal to be able to play this year. I know it is centered around Katrina, but wouldn't he have been in high school during that time? How would that affect his college eligiblity? I heard from others on the board that others have won on this appeal as well. I really hope that he is able to play this year as it seem he would be an immediate impact player for us. Good size at 6'2 and speed to boot. I heard someone state that Stoops was even getting involved on his behalf to let him play this year. Anyone one have any background on this appeal, timeline on when we may hear something?

Back to the main topic of discussion on this thread, I think it's a bit of a long shot to expect the NCAA to grant a waiver to Stadford on the basis of being displaced by Hurricane Katrina. I've done a bit of research on it and I've found a few examples of both basketball and football players affected by Katrina in HS that played one year at a 4-year university before transferring. Each of them was required to sit out one year before being eligible at the university to which he was transferring. The only differences I've found is that these players transferred to another HS so they could play in their senior seasons and had significant playing time in their college freshman seasons, whereas it appears that Stadford did not participate anywhere his senior season in HS and was redshirted at OU. Here are a couple of players with similar situations:

Jeremy McGee

Lawrence Gilbert

Along with many news stories discussing how the NCAA would not discontinue its policy of requiring transfers to sit out one year (due to circumstances created by Hurricane Katrina), here is the official announcement that was posted by the NCAA back in 2005:

NCAA News Release September 16, 2005

I also found this addendum to a story at College Confidential by FWST's Troy Phillips posted on January 22, 2009. I was out of the country during that time so I apologize if this is old news.

Addendum: Stradford will sit out the 2009 season and play in 2010 as per the NCAA in-division transfer rule.

Edited February 19, 2009 by gangrene

[GoMeanGreen1999]

Addendum: Stradford will sit out the 2009 season and play in 2010 as per the NCAA in-division transfer rule.

I still say we probably won't ever see him on the field. Hope I am wrong, but usually those players who jump around, many times end up not playing.