"to Have Any Kind Of Success At The Professional Level,

Censored by Laurie · February 18, 2009

x2

Exhibit Eleven

Green P1 · February 18, 2009

Exhibit Eleven

I would like to dispute this.

Censored by Laurie · February 18, 2009

I would like to dispute this.

X2

Green P1 · February 18, 2009

X2

Dispute ceased.

Edited February 18, 2009 by Green P1

Quoner · February 18, 2009

Dispute ceased.

xzibit

The Fake Lonnie Finch · February 18, 2009

FFR is right about the post - there are very, very few spread guys in the NFL doing anything other than holding clipboards. The reasons are plenty, but it all comes down to speed. In the NFL, you're at the very top of the food chain. There are no Iowa States and Baylors in the NFL. Each weekend, you're going to get defensive ends who can run like deer, even on bad teams. The linebacker speed is ridiculous in the league and the DBs are human jets.

I think the overall point is, it'd be nice to see Dodge do a little something other than have a guy sitting back in the pocket and running for his life. No one has to be honest against us because of our scheme. They can cheat up, blitz corners, send multiple linebackers...it doesn't matter. We don't have the scheme (fullback, tight end) to stop the extra men blitzing. We've discussed all of this before.

Our defense is then worn to hell with all of the three and outs, or one first down and then out. We get way behind, the opponent sticks in their second and third teamers and we get some stat padding time on offense as the opponents do their best to kill the clock andnot embarass us too much.

But, it all come down to the scheme. It's not novel or difficult to defense as many here mistakenly believed when Todd Dodge was hired. I recall people here trying to tell me that what Dodge ran wasn't a "spread" offense. Yeah, okay. Anyway, the Sun Belt had already been defensing Troy's offense and Schnellenberger - whose been around so long, he'll throw any formation out there play to play. And, out of conference, since we play mainly Big 12 and SEC teams, they'd already seen the real practitioners of it - Leach, Mumme, Spurrier - and the variations of the theme done by OU and Texas. There was no way it - spread or whatever you think Dodge's spread is really called - was going to take anyone by surprise...as we found out in game one up in Norman and in repeated beatings ever since.

This offseason, something has happened that should have happened in December 2006 - a real college coach was hired (for the DTs) and a dedicated conditioning guy was brought in. I'd love to go back and pull the threads back up where I predicted those were needed for Dodge to run this offense. But, why rub it in your faces personally? It's already been done on the field and the offseason actions to correct it are proof enough (and satisfying at some sick level as well).

Our problem, though, is that the offensive side of the ball is still full of good 'ol boy, high school hires. The defense finally has a full complement of competent college coaches. So, we are again likely to see the same type of stupidity that made our offense worthless for the better part of two seasons. On the plus side, I think the players and coaches can now cuss in the heat of battle without being "redirected" by the high school receivers coach.

I'm going to perform a Quoner-like task over the next few weeks about what the offensive statistics really mean. And, I mean to dig down and really see when we get the bulk of our yards and points. Lots of people like the stats, but to me, they're worthless if they don't add up to wins. I could care less if we pile up 400+ yards of offense if 250 of it came in the second half after we were already four scores behind! I'd rather win ugly with a stout defense and grinding, punishing offense. We'll never get the later out of Dodge, but we can at least now hope for the former with the new DL and conditioning coach.

Edited February 18, 2009 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

The Fake Lonnie Finch · February 18, 2009

Favre went to Southern Miss, not Ole Miss.

Quoner · February 18, 2009

Favre went to Southern Miss, not Ole Miss.

and Cutler went to Vandy

(although he might have left Virginia early after complications with his diabetes)

Edited February 18, 2009 by Quoner

Eagle1855 · February 18, 2009

Well to use your discussion point, there aren't a lot or BCS programs with multiple qbs. Though I only looked at starters.

Of course, I wasn't saying these programs all currently had QBs in the NFL, I was speaking historically.

If you look up that info, I feel confident you'll find Texas has had more than U-LaLa. USC has had more than Avocado U. Miami sent more QBs to the pros than Guacamole State. Etc.

I guess what I'm saying is, H.S. kids with NFL ambition don't wake up and say, Toledo is the place that will jump start my NFL career.

Edited February 18, 2009 by Eagle1855

UNTLifer · February 18, 2009

FFR is right about the post - there are very, very few spread guys in the NFL doing anything other than holding clipboards. The reasons are plenty, but it all comes down to speed. In the NFL, you're at the very top of the food chain. There are no Iowa States and Baylors in the NFL. Each weekend, you're going to get defensive ends who can run like deer, even on bad teams. The linebacker speed is ridiculous in the league and the DBs are human jets.
I think the overall point is, it'd be nice to see Dodge do a little something other than have a guy sitting back in the pocket and running for his life. No one has to be honest against us because of our scheme. They can cheat up, blitz corners, send multiple linebackers...it doesn't matter. We don't have the scheme (fullback, tight end) to stop the extra men blitzing. We've discussed all of this before.
Our defense is then worn to hell with all of the three and outs, or one first down and then out. We get way behind, the opponent sticks in their second and third teamers and we get some stat padding time on offense as the opponents do their best to kill the clock andnot embarass us too much.
But, it all come down to the scheme. It's not novel or difficult to defense as many here mistakenly believed when Todd Dodge was hired. I recall people here trying to tell me that what Dodge ran wasn't a "spread" offense. Yeah, okay. Anyway, the Sun Belt had already been defensing Troy's offense and Schnellenberger - whose been around so long, he'll throw any formation out there play to play. And, out of conference, since we play mainly Big 12 and SEC teams, they'd already seen the real practitioners of it - Leach, Mumme, Spurrier - and the variations of the theme done by OU and Texas. There was no way it - spread or whatever you think Dodge's spread is really called - was going to take anyone by surprise...as we found out in game one up in Norman and in repeated beatings ever since.
This offseason, something has happened that should have happened in December 2006 - a real college coach was hired (for the DTs) and a dedicated conditioning guy was brought in. I'd love to go back and pull the threads back up where I predicted those were needed for Dodge to run this offense. But, why rub it in your faces personally? It's already been done on the field and the offseason actions to correct it are proof enough (and satisfying at some sick level as well).
Our problem, though, is that the offensive side of the ball is still full of good 'ol boy, high school hires. The defense finally has a full complement of competent college coaches. So, we are again likely to see the same type of stupidity that made our offense worthless for the better part of two seasons. On the plus side, I think the players and coaches can now cuss in the heat of battle without being "redirected" by the high school receivers coach.
I'm going to perform a Quoner-like task over the next few weeks about what the offensive statistics really mean. And, I mean to dig down and really see when we get the bulk of our yards and points. Lots of people like the stats, but to me, they're worthless if they don't add up to wins. I could care less if we pile up 400+ yards of offense if 250 of it came in the second half after we were already four scores behind! I'd rather win ugly with a stout defense and grinding, punishing offense. We'll never get the later out of Dodge, but we can at least now hope for the former with the new DL and conditioning coach.

Response to what is in bold: Because that's how you are, you can't resist being a ......(don't want to get banned again, so use your imagination)

The Fake Lonnie Finch · February 18, 2009

Response to what is in bold: Because that's how you are, you can't resist being a ......(don't want to get banned again, so use your imagination)

I can resist, but what's the point? History has borne out what many of us were skeptical about back then, but we were pooh-poohed to varying degrees...usually by people saying we weren't coaches so how could we possibly know anything about it, or we loved Darrel Dickey, or other such nonsense. Besides, if the kool-aid drinkers had been right, they'd be gloating for saying Dodge was the magic bullet from day one. So, it's fair enough for either side to claim victory when the dust settles.

Anyway, the long and short of it is, it's better late than never. Collectively as a fanbase, we're finally going to get, on the defensive side of the ball, what we should have gotten from day one - a full compliment of college coaches to prepare the defense for battle. Even if the offense doesn't improve much, having guys who know what they're doing for the defensive half the team should be good for another two or three wins alone during the seasons.

And, you can look this up as well - I predicted we'd have a winning record in the Sun Belt last season. I was wrong, but I believed that based on what I thought would be the experience of the offense. Again, wrong. In that regard, I overestimated Dodge and his offensive staff's ability to drill their system into the heads of the returning players.

This year, there will simply be no excuse for not have a winning record in the Sun Belt. Overall, I can easily see us going 1-3, or even 0-4 again on the out of conference part of the schedule again. I can live with that...if those OOC scores are closer than in years one and two. However, in year three I fully expect Todd Dodge to have a grasp of the competition level of this conference with no excuses. We're not Baylor trying to claw our way up the Big 12 South. It isn't climbing Mount Everest to expect winning at this juncture in this conference.