Federal Obligation "exceeds"

eulesseagle · February 15, 2009

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=...mp;pageId=88851

we have plenty of money as long as the presses don't break & we don't run out of paper and ink.

KRAM1 · February 15, 2009

There is NOTHING in the "stimulus" ie SPENDING PLAN that will work to bring us out of the recession. Too little "good", too much pork (even though Mr. Obama promised no earmarks...first broken promise of many to come...ie; FutureGen) and even his "tax cuts" are not tax cuts...they are tax credits. Big difference.

I wish this program well, but I do think it is doomed to fail. President Reagan is turning over in his grave as we speak. Reagan inherited a much worse economy...remember mortgae rates at 17%? Unemployment rates higher than today, inflation at over 7% with today's inflation rate at .1%...that .1% not even 1%. Reagan took tax rates doen from a high bracket of about 70%, he actually STIMULATED the economy. IT WORKED...The US came out of the recession and entered a 25 year period of grpwth and expansion.

Obama is doing exactly the opposite. Why not do something that worked? Anyway, good luck to the "tax and spend folks", we all need luck here because there is nothing in his bill that has ever proven to work. I dobt that most of the fplks who voted for the badly flawed bill even read the thing! It's over 1000 pages long and was passed with "lightening quick" speed. Do you really think they read the darn thing? I don't...if they read it they would have certainly voted NO!

Good Grief.

oldguystudent · February 15, 2009

Reagan took tax rates doen from a high bracket of about 70%, he actually STIMULATED the economy. IT WORKED...The US came out of the recession and entered a 25 year period of grpwth and expansion.

Isn't the top tax rate around 35% today? How low can it go? Also, and I truly ask this from a non-partisan standpoint, the $800 billion aside, what is the plan to pay off the $10 trillion in existing debt? Aren't future generations already under a crushing burden? I was listening to KLIF yesterday, and they were talking about the debt from various accounting viewpoints, and said that depending on how you look at it, it could be as high as $100 trillion (intra-government transfer debt and whatnot).

Also, and I'm reallly stretching my memory here without looking up facts to verify, but didn't the Reagan administration float crazy amounts of debt that brought the first wave of major foreign creditors from Japan? Wasn't deficit spending part of the Reagan mantra?

Finally, I'm most certainly not trying to stand here and say Regan was the economic anti-christ and that Obama is the economic messiah. This thing is much, much bigger than anything my simpleton mind can understand, so I'm just trying to get as much of a grasp of it as I can. Unfortunately, all I usually see is extremity from both sides of the aisle. The truth, or solution if you will, almost always lies somewhere in the middle.

ETA -- I'll give Reagan credit for an intangible that I believe had very tangible results. He made us proud to be Americans. Nixon, Ford and Carter before him, and Bush, Clinton and Bush after him have really dropped the ball on that one.

Edited February 15, 2009 by oldguystudent

KRAM1 · February 15, 2009

As I recall Reagan took the top tax bracket to 25% with most folks paying in the 15-20% range or lower. Today, there may be a 35% top bracket, but it hits many more people with incomes now considered in the middle and upper middle ranges...certainly not just the rich...you earn (joint income in $100K+ range between both husband and wife and you have a good chance of being hit with either the AMT or the top tax bracket on at least part of your income in many caes...depending, of course, on where your income is generated). If you think deficit spending was big under Reagan, hold on to your rear end and watch what happens under Mr. Obama's plan.

Government control, government spending and government telling private companies what their executives can earn is called socialism. It's been tried...IT HAS FAILED! It will again.

I truly wish Mr. Obama luck. He is staking the economic well being of our children and grandchildren on this massive government spending plan...with more to come, and his presidency will be judged by this plan which was "rammed" through Congress in just the first month of his administration. I hope and pray it works, but have very little confidence that it will...even his administration is now saying that the job creation will not see results until the end of 2010!!!! GREAT PLAN!

But, one bit of perspective here for all of us...which ever "side" you are on...the country survived FDR, it survived, Carter, it survived Clinton, it survived both Bushe presidencies, it survived JFK and Reagan...it will survive Obama too as it is the greatest nation on God's Green Earth.

So, we can all sit back and debate the merits of this plan and argue one side or the other, but let's remember...we are all in this together and if there is something each of us can do...DO IT! If you own a company...hire someone if at all possible, keep people employed, if you can start a company, save for the future but don't stop all spending. If you are looking for a home, this is a great time to be a buyer, car loans are out there and the rates are great...support your local small business owners, now is the time they really need out support. Don't stop donating to your favorite charity or church...if you have to cut back...do it...but try to keep some level going...we can all do something to help pull the country out of this recession...IT IS NOT THE RESPONSIBILITY OF GOVERNMENT TO FUND YOUR EVEY NEED....

So, remeber...buy season tickets and support the Mean Green with your attendance and your dollars!!!! Go Mean Green...just had to add this part! :rolleyes:

oldguystudent · February 15, 2009

But, one bit of perspective here for all of us...which ever "side" you are on...the country survived FDR, it survived, Carter, it survived Clinton, it survived both Bushe presidencies, it survived JFK and Reagan...it will survive Obama too as it is the greatest nation on God's Green Earth.

'Tis true.

Side Show Joe · February 15, 2009

Temporary jobs and handouts will not fix this economy. Creating more money that does not exist will not fix this economy.

This trillion dollar package will only lead to inflation and a worse economy.

This people of our country have lived beyond their means for far too long. Our leaders on both sides have made terrible choices. Dems wanted everyone to be able to buy a home, regardless of weather or not they could pay for it, and repubs were ready to make the money off those loans. Repubs deregulated the markets to the point where oil and housing prices could be falsely inflated by greedy speculators. Who knows what market may be next? When the housing bubble burst, the oil bubble wasn't far behind. Now look at the mess we're in.

We need to put the regulations back on the market, so prices can't be falsely inflated, we need to put criminal penalties in place for knowingly mismanaging investments ( and I'm not talking about country club prisons), and we need to let the market correct itself. Jobs would be lost, and businesses will go under, but the economy would recover faster, and our country would not become Socialist in the process.

This spending package will only make a bad situation worse. The whole world needs money and there is no one to lend it. Believe me, this won't end well. Future generations of Americans will never forgive us for this.

UNTflyer · February 15, 2009

Isn't the top tax rate around 35% today? How low can it go?

In 1930, the Republican-controlled House of Representatives, in an effort to alleviate the effects of the... Anyone? Anyone?... the Great Depression, passed the... Anyone? Anyone? The tariff bill? The Hawley-Smoot Tariff Act? Which, anyone? Raised or lowered?... raised tariffs, in an effort to collect more revenue for the federal government. Did it work? Anyone? Anyone know the effects? It did not work, and the United States sank deeper into the Great Depression. Today we have a similar debate over this. Anyone know what this is? Class? Anyone? Anyone? Anyone seen this before? The Laffer Curve. Anyone know what this says? It says that at this point on the revenue curve, you will get exactly the same amount of revenue as at this point.

Edited February 15, 2009 by UNTflyer

keith · February 15, 2009

Obama spent more time picking out a freaking dog for his kids than he did spending a trillion of our dollars. What a joke.

No one had a chance to read the bill. It stll had post-it notes and hand written edits in the margins. As a typical example, $100,000,000 was crossed out and $150,000,000 was penciled in. Just that quickly someone spent another $50,000,000. As Rahm Emanuel says, never let a good crisis go to waste. Our government is out of control.

For those who voted for change......here it is....... $1,000,000,000.00 ... and Obama is just getting started.

Keith

UNTflyer · February 15, 2009

(even though Mr. Obama promised no earmarks...first broken promise of many to come...ie; FutureGen)

My brother just found out he is being deployed to Iraq in November. So much for withdrawing troops and ending the war.

UNTFan23 · February 15, 2009

We need to put the regulations back on the market, so prices can't be falsely inflated, we need to put criminal penalties in place for knowingly mismanaging investments ( and I'm not talking about country club prisons), and we need to let the market correct itself. Jobs would be lost, and businesses will go under, but the economy would recover faster, and our country would not become Socialist in the process.

Are you talking about the Madoff Ponzi scheme or are you talking about something else?

What people need to understand is that it is up to the prosecution to prove that someone "knowingly mismanaged an investment". It could take years and who knows how many man-hours of forensic accounting research to try to make a case against someone.

oldguystudent · February 15, 2009

In 1930, the Republican-controlled House of Representatives, in an effort to alleviate the effects of the... Anyone? Anyone?... the Great Depression, passed the... Anyone? Anyone? The tariff bill? The Hawley-Smoot Tariff Act? Which, anyone? Raised or lowered?... raised tariffs, in an effort to collect more revenue for the federal government. Did it work? Anyone? Anyone know the effects? It did not work, and the United States sank deeper into the Great Depression. Today we have a similar debate over this. Anyone know what this is? Class? Anyone? Anyone? Anyone seen this before? The Laffer Curve. Anyone know what this says? It says that at this point on the revenue curve, you will get exactly the same amount of revenue as at this point.

I'm going to assume that you're not really being condescending to me. I'm asking honest questions without political motivation. No. I have never seen the Laffer curve. Looking at it, my question is what point on the x axis is t*?

UNTflyer · February 15, 2009

I'm going to assume that you're not really being condescending to me. I'm asking honest questions without political motivation. No. I have never seen the Laffer curve. Looking at it, my question is what point on the x axis is t*?

Back to the question "How low can it go?" Income taxes can go to zero if government returned to doing exactly what it's authorized to do in the Constitution - operate a limited government and charge tariffs to fund it.

oldguystudent · February 15, 2009

Back to the question "How low can it go?" Income taxes can go to zero if government returned to doing exactly what it's authorized to do in the Constitution - operate a limited government and charge tariffs to fund it.

OK. I see where you're going with that. Please understand that as I've stated before, I'm in econ 1110. I have a lot to learn on these things, so I'm asking questions to learn, not to pick sides.

UNTflyer · February 16, 2009

OK. I see where you're going with that. Please understand that as I've stated before, I'm in econ 1110. I have a lot to learn on these things, so I'm asking questions to learn, not to pick sides.

No problem, man. I should have explained my point better. The Laffer Curve theory states that there is a sweet spot where tax revenues are maximized if the rates are set perfectly. This is how tax revenues can "magically" increase despite cutting taxes. Democrats criticized Reagan's and Bush's "tax cuts for the rich" and claimed it ballooned the deficit. The truth is that despite the tax cuts, tax revenues increased to record amounts in both presidencies. This indicates we were beyond the "sweet spot" of the Laffer Curve. The deficits increased because Congress spends money like drunk sailors in Thailand. It would be like getting a $100 a month raise and trading in your pick-up truck for a BMW.