Nt Out Of Conference Bb Schedule

Buford_Julep · February 11, 2009

One of the weakest in the nation. It has been posted many times by many people. I know at least four different posters have said so in the last month. But, is it true? I disagree. I don't even think the NT schedule is one of the weakest in the conference.

Pomeroy is the only rating service I have found that rates out of conference schedules. It has NT at #119 out of 344 D-1 schedules, and #5 in the Sun Belt.

Several others rank strength of schedule for the season, but don't break it down into OOC.

Sagarin has NT at #228 nationally and #5 in the Belt.

Real Time Sports has NT at #227 Nationally and #6 in the Belt.

NCAA RPI has NT at #227 Nationally and #7 in the Belt.

Pomeroy used to give OOC RPI ratings but quit showing any RPI ratings and wiped out the archives this season. Here are the OOC RPI ratings for previous seasons based on one of my previous posts:

Out of conference strength of schedule rankings according to RPI during J Jones era:

Year...National Rank ....Sun Belt Rank

2001: 40....................1

2002: 234..................7

2003: 32....................1

2004: 310..................11

2005: 132..................6

2006: 167..................7

2007: 286..................12

2008: 86....................5

untgeorge · February 16, 2009

One of the weakest in the nation. It has been posted many times by many people. I know at least four different posters have said so in the last month. But, is it true? I disagree. I don't even think the NT schedule is one of the weakest in the conference.
Pomeroy is the only rating service I have found that rates out of conference schedules. It has NT at #119 out of 344 D-1 schedules, and #5 in the Sun Belt.
Several others rank strength of schedule for the season, but don't break it down into OOC.
Sagarin has NT at #228 nationally and #5 in the Belt.
Real Time Sports has NT at #227 Nationally and #6 in the Belt.
NCAA RPI has NT at #227 Nationally and #7 in the Belt.
Pomeroy used to give OOC RPI ratings but quit showing any RPI ratings and wiped out the archives this season. Here are the OOC RPI ratings for previous seasons based on one of my previous posts:
Out of conference strength of schedule rankings according to RPI during J Jones era:
Year...National Rank ....Sun Belt Rank
2001: 40....................1
2002: 234..................7
2003: 32....................1
2004: 310..................11
2005: 132..................6
2006: 167..................7
2007: 286..................12
2008: 86....................5

Whether our schedule us "weaker" or "weakest" us a moot point.

Reality us that if we win out and go to the NCAA tournament, we will be a 14 or 15 seed. Probably 15. Our OOC schedule us part of the reason we won't seed better, we have no wins vs the top 100 and some bad losses (UTA and UNO). We have beaten only a few teams which have a winning record. Whether "weaker" or "weakest", I dunno, but the schedule us not strong enough to help us at ye.

Some if the weakness is bad luck, who knew Indiana State program was going into the tank. That looked like a challenging matchup when we signed it. Also the Belt is a little down this season. Some if it may have been by design, for instance if JJ wanted an easier schedule knowing he would be breaking several new people into the lineup. That is a common strategy, look at Butler this year.

Nonetheless, if we intend for this program to be something better than a one-and-out NCAA team, we have to (among other things) beef up our OOC schedule and win some if those games. It depends on what your ambitions are for this program, if you are satisfied with the status quo, don't beef up the schedule.

KRAM1 · February 16, 2009

How far out are basketball schedules set? Can a coach actually "work" the schedule based on the "youth" or "experience" of their teams? Just wondering.

Any Sunbelt team will have to win the tournament to get into the NCAA's and will probably be no better than a 14 or 15 seed no matter what their schedule was like. I think the entire conference is going to have to "get better" to get better seeds. The "big time" schools play weak out of conference schedules too, but then conference is a challenge and makes up for the weak out of conference it seems to me. But, just like the Sunbelt in football...not much respect nation-wide as a conference.

I agree, UNT should play as tough a non-conference schedule as is appropriate, but I don't think UNT should schedule it at the "expense of the whole season". Get the "Belt teams "up" as a conference and this will be a non-issue...until UNT can get into a better conference...I hope...I hope. Well, a fella can dream, can't he.

I hope everyone turns out for our last two home games this Thursday and Saturday...Ladies play Wednesday and there is a double=header Saturday. Good week for UNT basketball...let's fill the house!!!!

GO MEAN GREEN!

CMJ · February 16, 2009

UALR's OOC schedule wasn't that impressive if you really look at it. They are currently listed as a 13 seed on ESPN's bracketology(granted who knows anything).

Censored by Laurie · February 16, 2009

Basketball schedules are set up anywhere from 3 years to 3 weeks before the season starts. Teams set up multi-year contracts for home-home series, or like us with OSU a 2 for 1...gaps in the schedule are then filled in before the season starts...I believe coaches even have an online network where they can post openings and what type of contract they would like to set up (pay game, home and home ect).

The OOC performance of the entire conference has been pretty poor. Western has an impressive victory over Louisville, a top 15 team...but they've pretty much thrown any love from the committee out the door with some god awful losses. UALR hung with Memphis and has a nice win against Creighton, a bubble team...but they too have a handfull of ugly losses. Troy hadn't done a damn thing until the last month. USA's signature OOC win is an overtime win against Southern Miss. I guess ours is New Mexico State.

If our bid goes to WKU, I can see the case for a 12 seed...but probably a 13. UALR or Troy with their conference records merit a 13...UNT, MTSU or USA a 14 depending on how the rest of the regular season plays out...anyone else a 15.

chrisfisher · February 16, 2009

If the team keeps playing like they have the past few games, we have a real chance of an NCAA tourny run. Even when we weren't playing our great ball, we played the SBC's best teams down to wire and lead most of the game in several games. This shows that we can beat anyone in the SBC tourny, especially if this new momentum continues... I am personally realizing a resurgence of excitement about this basketball team! I hope Josh has finally found his shoot too!

Edited February 16, 2009 by chrisfisher

untgeorge · February 16, 2009

How far out are basketball schedules set? Can a coach actually "work" the schedule based on the "youth" or "experience" of their teams? Just wondering.
Schedules are not made that far ahead for the most part. Most (not all, but most) OOC arrangements are 2 years H and H, meaning teams reconstruct half their OOC schedukes each year.
Any Sunbelt team will have to win the tournament to get into the NCAA's and will probably be no better than a 14 or 15 seed no matter what their schedule was like. I think the entire conference is going to have to "get better" to get better seeds. The "big time" schools play weak out of conference schedules too, but then conference is a challenge and makes up for the weak out of conference it seems to me. But, just like the Sunbelt in football...not much respect nation-wide as a conference.
Probably true this season, but LY the SunBelt teams were a 10 and a 12 seed.
GO MEAN GREEN!

Quoner · February 16, 2009

Interesting you bring up the lack of a strong Sun Belt choic. It seems to be a theme this season: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writ...ex.html?eref=T1

It's looking more and more like a perfect storm of mediocrity. Mid-major leagues across America have eaten their own while many of the bigger conferences have thin upper crusts and thick, bloated, indistinguishable midsections. The result: for the past two weeks, all 34 projected at-large bids have gone to the eight biggest-spending conferences, and barring championship week upsets of teams like Memphis and Butler, the final product won't look much different.

Buford_Julep · February 17, 2009

We have beaten only a few teams which have a winning record.

Are you sure?

NT BB schedule

Home

Sam Houston...14-9

NM St.............13-12

UTA................16-10

Jackson St......11-13 (Will soon have a winning record)

Indiana State...7-19 (Have wins over Illinois St (home and away) and Northern Iowa)

Houston Baptist.3-22

Cameron D-2

Road

Oklahoma State...15-9

Arkansas.............13-10 (wins over Texas and Oklahoma)

Houston...............16-7

Sam Houston...... 14-9

I don't see anything wrong with this schedule. We just haven't won enough games

calvin · February 17, 2009

Actually one of the worst things that could have happened was us beating OSU at home last year. Any hope of getting good middle of the road BCS schools to come to the pit was hurt that night. Teams like that that depend on their RPI to get in the dance, cant afford losses like that. Its hard enough to get good home games b/c from what I have heard teams like that wont even think about doing a home and home it has to be a 2 for 1 if they even do that. I dont even think Houston was going to come here but they did b/c of the Ft. Worth Bowl. That is why we have had games like Indiana St., New Mexico St., and other Southland teams.

I would actually like to see us keep this schedule up, play a couple of BCS schools on the road and then the rest of the schedule filled with mid major schools. It would be good to get some more Missouri Valley conference schools, and some Conf. USA schools and keep the regional rivalry going with UTA. I wish we could play TCU and SMU every year but I know they are scared to play us.

e-bone ver2.awesome · February 17, 2009

The OOC schedules this team plays don't seem to prepare the team for conference. If we were going 12-6 - 14-4 in conference every season I would be happy with the easy OOC schedules. But we don't, so I'm not.

e-bone ver2.awesome · February 17, 2009

Are you sure?
NT BB schedule
Home
Sam Houston...14-9
NM St.............13-12
UTA................16-10
Jackson St......11-13 (Will soon have a winning record)
Indiana State...7-19 (Have wins over Illinois St (home and away) and Northern Iowa)
Houston Baptist.3-22
Cameron D-2
Road
Oklahoma State...15-9
Arkansas.............13-10 (wins over Texas and Oklahoma)
Houston...............16-7
Sam Houston...... 14-9
I don't see anything wrong with this schedule. We just haven't won enough games

I think you just proved his point that we don't beat any winning teams in OOC play. On that list I see SHSU(losing record OOC) and NMSU(only 1 win over .500) as OOC teams we have beat with winning records.

Edited February 17, 2009 by e-bone ver2.awesome

calvin · February 17, 2009

Actually one of the worst things that could have happened was us beating OSU at home last year. Any hope of getting good middle of the road BCS schools to come to the pit was hurt that night. Teams like that that depend on their RPI to get in the dance, cant afford losses like that. Its hard enough to get good home games b/c from what I have heard teams like that wont even think about doing a home and home it has to be a 2 for 1 if they even do that. I dont even think Houston was going to come here but they did b/c of the Ft. Worth Bowl. That is why we have had games like Indiana St., New Mexico St., and other Southland teams.

I would actually like to see us keep this schedule up, play a couple of BCS schools on the road and then the rest of the schedule filled with mid major schools. It would be good to get some more Missouri Valley conference schools, and some Conf. USA schools and keep the regional rivalry going with UTA. I wish we could play TCU and SMU every year but I know they are scared to play us.

Green to the Bone · February 17, 2009

Actually one of the worst things that could have happened was us beating OSU at home last year. Any hope of getting good middle of the road BCS schools to come to the pit was hurt that night.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking sitting in the Pit that night, watching the students rush the court and jump and dance and stomp and cheer and the team lifting Josh White on their shoulders. I was thinking, This is not the greatest moment I can remember about North Texas athletics; this is the worst possible thing that could happen. And I'm sure Jones chewed the team out in the locker room because their astounding victory scared off some possble schedule mates in future years.

This is the bizarrest thing I've ever read on this board.

eulesseagle · February 17, 2009

ebone-

take a look at #1 UConn OOC "cup cake" schedule:

western carolina 13-12, hartford 6-21, lasalle 14-10, bryant 7-19, delaware st. 7-20, stonybrook 14-12, zags 19-5 and fairfield 15-12....(95-111).

cup cakes.

record & team wise nt plays a much better OOC schedule with tougher opponents than #1 UCONN....and.....so what if they all do not have winning records! do you really want to play the type of schedule that Trilli played in his first two years? IMHO, nt has a good "BALANCE" of teams we play annually.....unlike the cup cakes uconn has played this year.

BJ makes an excellent point.

untgeorge · February 17, 2009

Are you sure?
NT BB schedule
Home
Sam Houston...14-9
NM St.............13-12
UTA................16-10
Jackson St......11-13 (Will soon have a winning record)
Indiana State...7-19 (Have wins over Illinois St (home and away) and Northern Iowa)
Houston Baptist.3-22
Cameron D-2
Road
Oklahoma State...15-9
Arkansas.............13-10 (wins over Texas and Oklahoma)
Houston...............16-7
Sam Houston...... 14-9
I don't see anything wrong with this schedule. We just haven't won enough games

Keep in mind that in the matters that count, such as RPI and other NCAA seeding considerations, games vs non-D1 teams aren't considered. It is like the games weren't played.

BY that standard, vs D1 schools, UTA is 10-10 and SHSU is 10-9.

Censored by Laurie · February 17, 2009

Our OOC schedule is not the reason we're not in at-large contention...that would be our inconsistant play.

I was much happier with our OOC schedule this season...I would've preferred not to have played Sam twice...grab TCU now that they have a coach who is actually confident in his ability to coach that he may schedule us...but aside from that we played regional opponants who are in the top half of their conference, save for Houston Baptist.

e-bone ver2.awesome · February 17, 2009

ebone-
take a look at #1 UConn OOC "cup cake" schedule:
western carolina 13-12, hartford 6-21, lasalle 14-10, bryant 7-19, delaware st. 7-20, stonybrook 14-12, zags 19-5 and fairfield 15-12....(95-111).
cup cakes.
record & team wise nt plays a much better OOC schedule with tougher opponents than #1 UCONN....and.....so what if they all do not have winning records! do you really want to play the type of schedule that Trilli played in his first two years? IMHO, nt has a good "BALANCE" of teams we play annually.....unlike the cup cakes uconn has played this year.
BJ makes an excellent point.

UConn can play those teams because they will have one of the nation's toughest conference schedules every single year. If they have a great OOC record against inferior opponents and even finish at .500 in conference, or possibly less, they will be in the NCAA tournament. We play a poor OOC schedule that doesn't prepare us for conference and then finish around .500 in conference, requiring that we win the conference tournament to make the NCAA tournament. Again, as I have already stated, if we were killing in conference every season then the OOC schedules we have played would be great because we could rack up wins in and out of conference play, making it much easier to make the NCAA tournament even if we don't win the conference tournament.

calvin · February 17, 2009

Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking sitting in the Pit that night, watching the students rush the court and jump and dance and stomp and cheer and the team lifting Josh White on their shoulders. I was thinking, This is not the greatest moment I can remember about North Texas athletics; this is the worst possible thing that could happen. And I'm sure Jones chewed the team out in the locker room because their astounding victory scared off some possble schedule mates in future years.
This is the bizarrest thing I've ever read on this board.

"Actually one of the worst things that could have happened was us beating OSU at home last year. Any hope of getting good middle of the road BCS schools to come to the pit was hurt that night."

I think you took what I said out of context or maybe I didnt say it the right way. It really wasnt the worst thing that we could have done and it was a great night for us but I bet OSU wont be coming back anytime soon. Teams like OSU and those guys wont want to take the chance of coming to the Pit b/c they know we can beat them and they cant afford those losses.

Green to the Bone · February 17, 2009

"Actually one of the worst things that could have happened was us beating OSU at home last year. Any hope of getting good middle of the road BCS schools to come to the pit was hurt that night."
I think you took what I said out of context or maybe I didnt say it the right way. It really wasnt the worst thing that we could have done and it was a great night for us but I bet OSU wont be coming back anytime soon. Teams like OSU and those guys wont want to take the chance of coming to the Pit b/c they know we can beat them and they cant afford those losses.

Clarification noted and understood. I just think there's no point in marketing ourselves as guaranteed OOC rollovers in order to attract top programs. If a dozen top programs chose to stay away because we beat OSU -- and I'm not at all certain that there's a factual basis for that assertion -- I'dl still take that one victory over OSU any day.

calvin · February 17, 2009

That was a great night, probably the best night I can remember at the Pit. But a former assist. coach used to live right by me and we talked quite a bit and he said that they had trouble scheduling b/c the big boys didnt want to come here and play and this was before the OSU game. Now I am sure when they talk to people about scheduling that the other schools dont say, "well ya'll beat OSU, so we are not coming." But I am sure they refuse b/c they feel in their mind it is a lose/lose situation.

eulesseagle · February 17, 2009

IMHO, schools "want" to play some schools for the supposed easy wins to enhance their chances to get to the "BIG DANCE" in March. I have no problems with any school playing a schedule to enhance those efforts even NT.

We all want NT to get into the March Dance or the NIT (Not in Tournament) to increase our chances of getting better recruits to play at NT. I know I do and so does Basketball Jones. At the end of the BB season who really cares what the records of the teams we played against are. Heck, the only thing that matters is the final W-L record.

e-bone ver2.awesome · February 17, 2009

IMHO, schools "want" to play some schools for the supposed easy wins to enhance their chances to get to the "BIG DANCE" in March. I have no problems with any school playing a schedule to enhance those efforts even NT.
We all want NT to get into the March Dance or the NIT (Not in Tournament) to increase our chances of getting better recruits to play at NT. I know I do and so does Basketball Jones. At the end of the BB season who really cares what the records of the teams we played against are. Heck, the only thing that matters is the final W-L record.

You really think that only records count when the NCAA selection committee decides who makes the tournament or not?