Would You Mind Utsa In The Belt ?

untjim1995 · February 10, 2009

Wishful thinking on my part at the present, but how bout a mostly TX division of Conference USA & everybody else: UNT, SMU, TCU Tulsa, La Tech, UTEP. I would hope we would move on, and want to go to a conference with established programs. After all, that is what we believe can happen. We should have bigger aspirations then to have UTSA or even Texas St. as rivals, don't see how playing shows our program is growing. After all, we have been in this game a lot longer than either. Come on guys, we need to think bigger & better!

There is only problem to your thinking bigger and better than playing in a conference with UTSA and TSU: Those other Texas colleges look at UNT the exact same way that we look at UTSA or TSU, especially the Metrpolex teams and their fans. UTEP, UH, Rice, SMU, and TCU have more to gain if a TSU or UTSA join their conference or play OOC games against them in the future because they get more exposure in an area of the state that they can recruit better. Unfortunately, our location, which is a hotbed for recruiting anyway, already has exposure in the two conferences that we would love to be a member in--and SMU and TCU want nothing to do with us being in their conference.

The best hope for UNT, in my opinion, is for the larger public universities in the SBC and CUSA to create their own conference. Then, a conference of La Tech, Ark State, UH, ULL, UNT, UTEP, NMSU, USM, UAB, Troy, MTSU, and WKU would be a great combo of all of the SBC and CUSA. UNT would be a prominent player as the only Metroplex school in this scenario and we would upgrade our conference immediately. Sadly, though, if SMU is in CUSA, we won't be--its just that simple. And probably the same with TCU and the MWC, too.

UNT90 · February 10, 2009

Sadly, what will happen is UTSA will surpass us, and quickly, once they get things off the ground.
The only competition for fans in SA is the Spurs, and the important parts of their seasons don't mesh since the NBA playoffs don't begin until far after the college football season ends.

I believe they are entering at D1AA level, correct?? They got a big hill to climb.

As far as no other team, I think you should do an inventory of UT T-Shirt wearing D-bags down there. That is their adopted PROFESSIONAL team, much like it is in Austin.

Edited February 10, 2009 by UNT90

ForneyGreen · February 10, 2009

I believe they are entering at D1AA level, correct?? They got a big hill to climb.
As far as no other team, I think you should do an inventory of UT T-Shirt wearing D-bags down there. That is their adopted PROFESSIONAL team, much like it is in Austin.

True dat!

If you think UNT has a lack of school spirit, take a stroll down the TSU or UTSA campuses and notice all of the UT and A&M garb being worn.

It will remind you of the North Texas State University student body circa 1985.

Somehow - Someway - we've been able to build some semblance of campus spirit at UNT.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · February 10, 2009

South Florida and FAU also started out playing I-AA/FCS. I think each played two seasons as independents at that level before making the jump. Either way, they've already proven it can be done quickly. And, guys like Larry Coker wouldn't be sniffing around if it wasn't going to go big soon. In South Florida's case, huge - from not having a program to I-AA to BCS conference in 10 years! UTSA could easily cut a similar path.

Green Dozer · February 10, 2009

South Florida and FAU also started out playing I-AA/FCS. I think each played two seasons as independents at that level before making the jump. Either way, they've already proven it can be done quickly. And, guys like Larry Coker wouldn't be sniffing around if it wasn't going to go big soon. In South Florida's case, huge - from not having a program to I-AA to BCS conference in 10 years! UTSA could easily cut a similar path.

Lonnie,

UTSA is mainly a research univerisity, and also a commuter school. Plus, in the middle of both Longhorn and Aggie country, I don't think UTSA is going to make much of a splash. If they get a crowd anywhere near the crowds for state championships in the Alamo Dome they will be lucky. And again, if Larry Coker is so great, why is he looking around and not even received a sniff from anybody since he left Miami. If UNT was such an opportunity, why didn't he apply here? Not even a small mid-major like Southern Miss, New Mexico, etc. There is more there than meets the eye as to why he would apply at UTSA.

aztecskin · February 10, 2009

Lonnie,
UTSA is mainly a research univerisity, and also a commuter school. Plus, in the middle of both Longhorn and Aggie country, I don't think UTSA is going to make much of a splash. If they get a crowd anywhere near the crowds for state championships in the Alamo Dome they will be lucky. And again, if Larry Coker is so great, why is he looking around and not even received a sniff from anybody since he left Miami. If UNT was such an opportunity, why didn't he apply here? Not even a small mid-major like Southern Miss, New Mexico, etc. There is more there than meets the eye as to why he would apply at UTSA.

All this is true. So is the talk about UTSA not having school spirit. UTSA basketball games are empty ... until they play in the tourney. The football team is part of a plan to bring more school spirit to UTSA. That was a big part of the initial argument for getting a feasibility study.

But, yes, when it gets started it will not be amazing. UTSA is not as good a draw as UNT. I saw UTSA as the second choice for local kids not going to UT or A&M. Shoot, Jarrell Dickerson, the all time leading rusher in SA high school history went to UT .. rode the pine for a season, and dropped out, had a kid and went ... to UTSA. (he was in the Jamal Charles fresh. class)

I think we are comparable however, in that UNT is a second choice school for many kids. It was my second choice. I admit it. I had never heard of this place even though Scott Hall went to my high school!

My point is that we need to be realists and compete in reality, not where we think we should be competing because of whatever. Right now we are prestige-less, and have a sorry stadium. Let's invest, win, and build it up.

Green Dozer · February 10, 2009

Right now we are prestige-less, and have a sorry stadium. Let's invest, win, and build it up.

Great post and you saved the best for last!!! Please present this at the next admin/ board of regents meeting, but take some coffee so they will stay awake and listen. They have never heard of anything like this before.

Chrisattsu · February 10, 2009

True dat!
If you think UNT has a lack of school spirit, take a stroll down the TSU or UTSA campuses and notice all of the UT and A&M garb being worn.
It will remind you of the North Texas State University student body circa 1985.
Somehow - Someway - we've been able to build some semblance of campus spirit at UNT.

Hey when was the last time you were in San Marcos? When I started working at Texas State five years ago I might have agreed with you, but it is a completely different beast now. While it is questionable what impact the name change had on the rest of the world, it changed the perception of the students coming here. The nature of my job has me dealing with incoming freshman during the orientation process through their freshman year. You can tell a difference between the students who were accepted to SWT and those accepted to TXST. The typical Southwest attitude is the, "I couldn't get into UT so I came here". However in the years since the name change, the student's attitudes are "I wanted to come to Texas State". I used to see one UT tshirt per day, now I maybe see one a week.

That's not to say things are perfect, we are still far from it. The increase in pride has improved the number of people attending the games, but not to the level that they should. The two playoff appearances since 2005 have helped keep stoke the fire of school pride, but the community is still not entirely involved.

We live in a world where dynasties rule the sports media. Cinderellas get their 5 minutes and then they go back to obscurity. We get 2 minutes on the the Austin and San Antonio news stations while Texas get 10. The fact is we are 20 minutes from DKR, we will have to do something EPIC to get the people of the Corridor (and San Marcos) to fill the stadium regularly. Hopefully this FBS move pans out.

Edited February 11, 2009 by Chrisattsu

GrandGreen · February 11, 2009

People are naive to think that additional fb division schools won't have an adverse effect on NT and other lower tier teams in the state. More Texas universities are not going to take recruits away from the Big Twelve but they will further reduce the talent pool for the CUSA teams and of course NT. I am continually amazed by what the TSU moniker is doing for good ole Southwest Texas State. A school that got little attention as SWT is now suddenly a hot topic for moving up. They are going to have a tough time being in the shadows of UT and as we know a big student body does not necessarily insure anything.

UTSA seems on the surface a much more viable candidate for moving up, being a in a huge city with no pro football close, and a great football stadium to play in and a little more distance from UT. Both of these teams are going to have a very rough time moving up to the fb level. Unless they find a conference to support their move such as the Belt did FAU, Troy, and FIU, it is going to be a major challenge. Who are they going to play to get the minimum games necessity to move up to the fb level. I doubt any conference is going to sponsor them unless there are needs to replace teams. Do you think the CUSA folks are going to be any more welcoming than they are to NT. The last thing Houston, UTEP, Rice, and SMU want to do is develop competition. The WAC has tried to expand into Texas to appease La Tech, but I think they had much rather just eventually freeze La Tech out. I don't see them wanting a South Texas school.

The Belt doesn't need any more teams with nine already and USA on the way. Additional teams just do not make any sense. I don't think the conference will seriously consider going to a twelve team divisional format. There is no market for a playoff game and I doubt many want to go to a conference were all the members don't play each other. It is also time for the Belt to grow up and require more of its teams then the bare minimum.

I can't fault any university from trying to move up the athletic ladder. UTSA should move up easily to the 1aa level, but both schools are going to find it difficult to go further.

wardly · February 11, 2009

i would think that usta, and lamar for that matter, would initally play in the southland. if texas state wants to move up to sunbelt, they would be a welcome addition. however, it is still not clear how drastic budget cuts in louisiana will affect la-tech,monroe,and ull. i believe la-tech's athletic budget is similar to ours, with the other 2 schools in the $8 to $6 million range. also, i would hope that a larger sunbelt will at some point not include us, although i don't anyone else that would except perhaps the wac. finally, our whole football future depends upon a new stadium, which is not necessarly a done deal. it is my understanding that we need $5+million in cash by may to move forward, and we are a few million short. if you can make a cash committment in the next 90 days, please do so and encourage others to do the same.

GrandGreen · February 11, 2009

i would think that usta, and lamar for that matter, would initally play in the southland. if texas state wants to move up to sunbelt, they would be a welcome addition. however, it is still not clear how drastic budget cuts in louisiana will affect la-tech,monroe,and ull. i believe la-tech's athletic budget is similar to ours, with the other 2 schools in the $8 to $6 million range. also, i would hope that a larger sunbelt will at some point not include us, although i don't anyone else that would except perhaps the wac. finally, our whole football future depends upon a new stadium, which is not necessarly a done deal. it is my understanding that we need $5+million in cash by may to move forward, and we are a few million short. if you can make a cash committment in the next 90 days, please do so and encourage others to do the same.

By who?

wardly · February 11, 2009

ann clinkscales, senior director development, intercollegiate athletics, as per our conversation at the signing day event at poterhouse.

GrandGreen · February 12, 2009

ann clinkscales, senior director development, intercollegiate athletics, as per our conversation at the signing day event at poterhouse.

So, a NT fundraiser is your source. I just don't see any reason that the Belt would expand, and even if they do there are better candidates than TSU. NT would like to have a closer conference mate, but at the same time; I doubt they would want to aid another competitive team in the state or add another conference game. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. As an aside, I wouldn't expect any NT official to publically be anything but positive about TSU and UTSA efforts.

NT03 · February 12, 2009

Our whole football future depends upon a new stadium, which is not necessarly a done deal. it is my understanding that we need $5+million in cash by may to move forward, and we are a few million short.

Doesn't sound good

For those who do not see UTSA or even Lamar as a threat : FAU started from scratch in 2001 and played only 3 years in 1AA. We started in ____ and still have not beat them in 5 tries and it doesn't look like we will anytime soon. FAU has one won more bowl games ( 2) than we have in how many years now ??

FIU also started from scratch in 2002. The last 2 meeting with them we have been outscored 29-70.

If anything we will get kicked out by the SUNBELT and forced to go Indepdent while being replaced by someone like a upstart UTSA program.

Edited February 12, 2009 by NT03

Green Dozer · February 12, 2009

finally, our whole football future depends upon a new stadium, which is not necessarly a done deal. it is my understanding that we need $5+million in cash by may to move forward, and we are a few million short. if you can make a cash committment in the next 90 days, please do so and encourage others to do the same.

This is what is gets me about the athletic department. First, they make people like Jeff Klein and Derrick think all we need is a "yes" vote to start construction on the stadium. Then these guys work their butts off, and get it done. When we get the YES vote, we hear nothing except a post here or post there, rumor, etc. All it would take to clear things up is a meeting between RV and members of the MGC. You know people can't donate if they don't know what is going on. The alumnae that are potential donors are the information seekers. Donors from the 60's and 70's era are, and its sad, trying to replace retirement money that has been zapped over the past year. So, it is the 80's and 90's group that is going to have to step up.

Baby Arm! · February 13, 2009

The alumnae that are potential donors are the information seekers.

Why just leave it up to the ladies? The men are information seekers to. At least this allumnus is. How about the rest of you allumni? <_<

LoveMG · February 13, 2009

it is my understanding that we need $5+million in cash by may to move forward, and we are a few million short. if you can make a cash committment in the next 90 days, please do so

sure, send lots of money to a project athletics needs but won't provide info about. as soon as i get the info packet in the mail then i will give at the next quarterly meeting. what, no meetings?

Edited February 13, 2009 by LoveMG

Side Show Joe · February 15, 2009

I don't mind UTSA or Texas State in the Belt. Let Lamar in too. But, I don't want to be in the Belt with them. By the time those teams are ready to join, we better be in or moving to a better conference.

If we are going to improve as a program, we must play better competition. We need to be playing in a stable conference with stronger teams. If the Sun Belt Conference continues to be a gateway conference for every team that wants to play BCS football it will continue to be the worst conference in the BCS, and a joke. We can't improve our program in those conditions.

Are we building a new stadium to compete with the teams of the Sun Belt Conference?, or all the BCS conferences? What do we really want for our university?

NT80 · February 16, 2009

I don't mind UTSA or Texas State in the Belt. Let Lamar in too. But, I don't want to be in the Belt with them. By the time those teams are ready to join, we better be in or moving to a better conference.
If we are going to improve as a program, we must play better competition. We need to be playing in a stable conference with stronger teams. If the Sun Belt Conference continues to be a gateway conference for every team that wants to play BCS football it will continue to be the worst conference in the BCS, and a joke. We can't improve our program in those conditions.
Are we building a new stadium to compete with the teams of the Sun Belt Conference?, or all the BCS conferences? What do we really want for our university?

We could invite Lamar, UTSA, SW Tx St, McNeese, UTA, Nicholls, and keep ULM and Ark St and change the name of our newly formed football conference to something like Southern, no how about Southland Conference?!!?!!!

eulesseagle · February 16, 2009

why do some of you want to "water down" the already weakest d-1 conference in the nation with a UT-(anything)?? that is paramont to asking for more welfare.

our discussions should be centered on positioning ourselves "OUT" of the sbc instead weaking the conference even more, unless, you have already resigned yourselves to that position.

just a thought.

UNT90 · February 16, 2009

it is my understanding that we need $5+million in cash by may to move forward, and we are a few million short. if you can make a cash committment in the next 90 days, please do so and encourage others to do the same.

So frustrating (assuming this is true, and you seem to be pretty connected) to have to hear this on a freaking message board!! As an Exes and MGC member, you would think that if this were true, I would have received at least one email or mass mailing asking for a donation specific to the stadium. So sad.

TIgreen01 · February 16, 2009

Doesn't sound good
For those who do not see UTSA or even Lamar as a threat : FAU started from scratch in 2001 and played only 3 years in 1AA. We started in ____ and still have not beat them in 5 tries and it doesn't look like we will anytime soon. FAU has one won more bowl games ( 2) than we have in how many years now ??
FIU also started from scratch in 2002. The last 2 meeting with them we have been outscored 29-70.
If anything we will get kicked out by the SUNBELT and forced to go Indepdent while being replaced by someone like a upstart UTSA program.

Apples to Oranges. Florida is not as watered down as Texas....or at least it wasn't before adding FAU and FIU. No program in Texas is going to be able to recreate the meteoric leap that South Florida made, and to a lesser extent the success that FAU has had, simply b/c of the number of schools in the state that are playing at the FBS level already.

To break it down by numbers, both state's produce roughly 350 FCS level athletes per year.

Texas currently has 4 schools competing in BCS auto qualifier conferences (UT, A&M, Tech, Baylor).

Compare that to Florida, who also has 4 (Florida, FSU, Miami, South Florida).

Now step down a rung....mid-major level FBS schools.

Texas has 6 (UNT, SMU, TCU, UTEP, Houston, Rice).

Florida has 3 (UCF, FAU, FIU).

Both states are heavily recruited by their surrounding states, who produce far fewer FBS level athletes (don't remember exact #'s, but only 3-4 other states even produce more than 30/year. Alabama is one and they produce around 100). Either way, it's safe to assume that schools will be able to sign kids from their home state easier than others...which gives FAU and FIU a built in advantage in the state of Florida, as it does us in Texas.

The one thing to consider, though is that the kids that Texas St. and/or UTSA (if and when they make the jump to FBS) sign will instantly become FBS level players----even if they wouldn't have been counted to that total in previous years. Same thing for the state of Florida when FAU/FIU made the jump. Either way, you have one state---Florida, who is producing roughly the same # of quality FBS level players with 4 fewer FBS level teams. The talent pool in Florida is currently richer than Texas due to them having fewer schools to divide it by.

All that said, TSU and/or UTSA jumping up is a definite threat to UNT, as it is to TCU/SMU/Houston/Rice/UTEP....b/c it will further thin out the talent within the state.

Edited February 16, 2009 by TIgreen01

NT80 · February 16, 2009

So frustrating (assuming this is true, and you seem to be pretty connected) to have to hear this on a freaking message board!! As an Exes and MGC member, you would think that if this were true, I would have received at least one email or mass mailing asking for a donation specific to the stadium. So sad.

You would think the department would ask/tell the ones that are the most concerned with it's success. Truly amazing there can still be such a lack of communication for such a huge project that will either make or break the future of the whole athletic department.

TIgreen01 · February 16, 2009

You forgot UCF.

oops...fixed.

RETSO · February 16, 2009

I personally would love it.......SA is a great weekend road trip.....i go to the alamo bowl ever year and have a blast. San Marcos aint bad for a day or two...

CUSA would be option 1 of course....with the WAC a close 2nd in my book (no thread needed) , but if we have to be stuck in theSun Belt lets be stuck with a few in state rival teams...

If we are still in the Belt in 10 years.....gasp......i hope it is with Tx St and UTSA......