Any Of These Guys Will Do

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

When we are interviewing for the new head coaching position, every one of these guys should at least be contacted:

http://footballrecruiting.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=909438

[Green P1]

:bangsheadagainstwall:

[Green Nightmare]

At the risk of getting drawn offsides by the TFLF, I offer this thought

Yeah these guys are outstanding recruiters.

I am thinking that the schools listed are not too hard to recruit too.

I want coaching experience if the TD experiment doesn't work

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

At the risk of getting drawn offsides by the TFLF, I offer this thought

Yeah these guys are outstanding recruiters.

I am thinking that the schools listed are not too hard to recruit too.

I want coaching experience if the TD experiment doesn't work

I think the point of the article is that these guys go head-to-head against the best in the business and succeed. Any school can lose its image appeal real quick.

Washington was a stellar team in the 80s and 90s, but have fallen on hard times as their recruiting has become less effective. Texas and OU both stumbled throughout the 90s. Notre Dame has taken the backseat over the past few seasons. Tennessee is going through it now. Miami is just coming back from a so-so mid-2000s.

You've got to really keep at it at a high level to keep your program competitive. This list is a good example of guys who are helping schools do it. Many are longtime assistants. They're worth a look when our job comes open because they already have the main skill sets we, or any program needs - many years of experience at this level, many contacts throughout the country, and a proven track record on and off the field.

[SHOSS]

I think the point of the article is that these guys go head-to-head against the best in the business and succeed. Any school can lose its image appeal real quick.

Washington was a stellar team in the 80s and 90s, but have fallen on hard times as their recruiting has become less effective. Texas and OU both stumbled throughout the 90s. Notre Dame has taken the backseat over the past few seasons. Tennessee is going through it now. Miami is just coming back from a so-so mid-2000s.

You've got to really keep at it at a high level to keep your program competitive. This list is a good example of guys who are helping schools do it. Many are longtime assistants. They're worth a look when our job comes open because they already have the main skill sets we, or any program needs - many years of experience at this level, many contacts throughout the country, and a proven track record on and off the field.

I guess I am comfortable with risking a red card here, but you are a very tired act... Comparing our programs to the ones you've listed here is just silly... and laying the blame solely on dodge is equally...well...(slumping over in my chair and vomitting all over my white shirt...)

[Green Crazy]

I think the point of the article is that these guys go head-to-head against the best in the business and succeed. Any school can lose its image appeal real quick.

Washington was a stellar team in the 80s and 90s, but have fallen on hard times as their recruiting has become less effective. Texas and OU both stumbled throughout the 90s. Notre Dame has taken the backseat over the past few seasons. Tennessee is going through it now. Miami is just coming back from a so-so mid-2000s.

You've got to really keep at it at a high level to keep your program competitive. This list is a good example of guys who are helping schools do it. Many are longtime assistants. They're worth a look when our job comes open because they already have the main skill sets we, or any program needs - many years of experience at this level, many contacts throughout the country, and a proven track record on and off the field.

i thought you were a realist TFLF? you know most of these guys wouldn't take the coaching job at NT and there is a reason why some of them have been long time assistant coaches. while these guys are good recruiters, i don't know how they would be as coaches.

look where good recruiting and bad coaching has got a&m and notre dame?

Edited February 6, 2009 by Green Crazy

[MeanGreenSig]

When we are interviewing for the new head coaching position, every one of these guys should at least be contacted:

http://footballrecruiting.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=909438

YAWN

I am officially tired of you

[Censored by Laurie]

I still like you. And I've been liking you more and more since you've started lessening your words. I'm sure I agreed with most of your dissertations, but this is a 30 second attention span culture and I am its poster boy

[hickoryhouse]

I know expectations seem to be very low here at the moment, and I can't say I blame people for those short expectations, but seriously... The season hasn't even started yet and we do have a head coach at the moment and presumably for at least the rest of this calendar year as well....

Aren't we being even a bit presumptuous?

[GreenBat]

Glad to have you back TFLF. You took a little break with the post I agreed with, but it's a good thing to see you're back off your meds.

Edited February 6, 2009 by GreenBat

[SUMG]

A while back TFLF had this to say about the greatness of former Iowa State coach Dan McCarney:

Turner Gill would not take the Iowa State job anyway. Someone who knows Iowa needs to be at the Iowa State job. They had a guy there, Dan McCarney. A new AD came in and fired him. The new guy was a joke.

McCarney had a losing season in 2006. Five of the six seasons prior to that, he had Iowa State in bowl games. The Cyclones have appeared in nine bowl games in 119 years; McCarney led them to five of those. He is the only ISU coach to ever lead the Cyclones to a bowl victories. They hadn't even been to a bowl game in 22 seasons before McCarney led them to their first ever bowl win in 2000.

The young, newfangled Iowa State athletic director is getting what he deserves for giving the ax to a man who was loyal to Iowa State. McCarney was born in Iowa played for the Iowa Hawkeyes and coached 12 of his first 13 seasons there under Hayden Fry. He then became the defensive coordinator for fellow Fry coaching staff almunus Barry Alvarez.

No man was more the fit for the ISU job than McCarney. Since being fired by the idiot AD, he's coached the defensive line for South Florida and Florida. He with the Gators now preparing for their tilt with OU in the national title game. It would be fitting if Florida's DL were to shut down OU's offense.

The sad thing is, McCarney gets no joy from ISU being torn down. I hope they have sense enough to rehire him - or fire the idiot AD who tossed him aside and hire someone who will. For what he accomplished at a school known for decent basektball, but losing football, he deserved better than to have some snotnosed punk throw him out. To see that AD up there yesterday and today talking about betrayal and whatnot...what nerve that punk has. It's his own fault ISU is in this mess to begin with. Sanctimonious twit.

So obviously Lonnie likes Dan McCarney. Well, this week Coach Dodge hired McCarney's long time Defensive line coach, Mike Nelson. As a matter of fact, McCarney recommended Nelson to Dodge. I'm still waiting for Lonnie to praise the hiring of Nelson. But, I guess then he'd have to praise Dodge, which doesn't seem possible.

[eulessismore]

Edited February 7, 2009 by eulessismore

[TheTastyGreek]

So obviously Lonnie likes Dan McCarney. Well, this week Coach Dodge hired McCarney's long time Defensive line coach, Mike Nelson. As a matter of fact, McCarney recommended Nelson to Dodge. I'm still waiting for Lonnie to praise the hiring of Nelson. But, I guess then he'd have to praise Dodge, which doesn't seem possible.

He praised him briefly in the thread about our home opener. Said he's excited to see what a real college coach does coaching our D-Linemen and the matchup against an Ohio team with 3 new starting O-Linemen is a good test.

[Green Guy Bass]

I know expectations seem to be very low here at the moment, and I can't say I blame people for those short expectations, but seriously... The season hasn't even started yet and we do have a head coach at the moment and presumably for at least the rest of this calendar year as well....

Aren't we being even a bit presumptuous?

3-21

[e-bone ver2.awesome]

When we are interviewing for the new head coaching position, every one of these guys should at least be contacted:

http://footballrecruiting.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=909438

Why would they take the pay cut?

[UNT90]

3-21

SACRILEGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[greenminer]

Why would they take the pay cut?

To be a head coach. This has been talked about before. Opportunity to lead and prove your worth far outweighs $$$$.

[hickoryhouse]

who says they will be taking a pay cut. We did pass the Athletic fee afterall. Maybe , in a coue years that e tea revenue could be earmarked for a higher payscale for coaches.

[eulessismore]

who says they will be taking a pay cut. We did pass the Athletic fee afterall. Maybe , in a coue years that e tea revenue could be earmarked for a higher payscale for coaches.

I'm not sure the way it's structured that it could. Maybe Flyer could enlighten us. I think it might take a broad based fund raising campaign among us alumni to really create competitive coaching salaries.

[Green Dozer]

To be a head coach. This has been talked about before. Opportunity to lead and prove your worth far outweighs $$$$.

No it doesn't, just look at most of the men who have walked our sideline. (70% of the coaches at UNT have had losing records out of 17). Why has somebody not seen this opportunity? This was a plum job with a lot of upside in the 70's, then in the 80's it was a plum job with a lot of upside, THEN in the 90's it was a plum job for some up and comer to prove his worth, and FINALLY in the 2000's, this was a plumb job for somebody to build a program and prove his worth, make a name for himself. Not trying to knock you down, but your theory has been floated around here for 30+ years that I have followed this program, and has been the mantle for every coach, including Fry as to why they took this job. I remember Fry saying "Somebody has to be No. 1, why not us?". They have all mentioned the upside at UNT, and all the potential it has their initial press conference. How long should we give this theory to work?

Since the 70's, only two of our head coaches have moved on as a head coach to another DIV 1 school. Hayden Fry, because of what he did here, and at SMU got the job at Iowa. Now, at that point, we did not go out and get the next up and comer nor did we hire Bill Brashear who Fry recommended. What if could have seen Snyder's potential? I knew both at the time, and Brashear would have made a great fit. Jerry Moore, who came after Fry, was hired at Tech, not for what he did here, but because of his offensive background at Nebraska.

Yea,our job has proved to be an opportunity to lead. Dickey couldn't make up his mind about which offer to take from all the choice of jobs after 4 championships, so he waited until he was fired. We cannot build this program on the theory that somebody will come here for the "opportunity to lead and prove your worth...", and work below what the market pays. I know you don't like to talk about the money part, but programs do not live on want to alone, it costs money, and there are no shortcuts. Heck, we just got a dedicated strength coach. Oh, I did not follow UNT football in the 60's, but a good friend told me when he got here in '64, he could not wait to go to a college games. He said he was really let down by the lack of support, by the lack of enthusiasm in regards to football at UNT, and Fouts in no way lived up to what his expectations for on campus college football was like. But, they were talking about building a program, and all the upside this job had to offer. I have always wanted to meet "they". "They" seems to carry a lot power in every organization, but "they" never shows up, and backs up what they want with work and sacrifice.

Lonnie, maybe you ought to consider endowing the head coaches' position so we can get a guy from your list. And maybe the admin of our esteemed university will finally make up their minds that they really want a living, breathing on its own athletic program, thus invigorating this apathetic alumnae base. How about these two parties step up to the plate?

Edited February 7, 2009 by Green Dozer

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

He praised him briefly in the thread about our home opener. Said he's excited to see what a real college coach does coaching our D-Linemen and the matchup against an Ohio team with 3 new starting O-Linemen is a good test.

Good save, Tasty. Praise was in that post, and in other places. You - I mean, they - just have to be able to read...or, find someone close to them who can. Reading is like The Humpty Dance - it's real easy to do.

[greenminer]

No it doesn't, just look at most of the men who have walked our sideline. (70% of the coaches at UNT have had losing records out of 17). Why has somebody not seen this opportunity? This was a plum job with a lot of upside in the 70's, then in the 80's it was a plum job with a lot of upside, THEN in the 90's it was a plum job for some up and comer to prove his worth, and FINALLY in the 2000's, this was a plumb job for somebody to build a program and prove his worth, make a name for himself. Not trying to knock you down, but your theory has been floated around here for 30+ years that I have followed this program, and has been the mantle for every coach, including Fry as to why they took this job. I remember Fry saying "Somebody has to be No. 1, why not us?". They have all mentioned the upside at UNT, and all the potential it has their initial press conference. How long should we give this theory to work?

Since the 70's, only two of our head coaches have moved on as a head coach to another DIV 1 school. Hayden Fry, because of what he did here, and at SMU got the job at Iowa. Now, at that point, we did not go out and get the next up and comer nor did we hire Bill Brashear who Fry recommended. What if could have seen Snyder's potential? I knew both at the time, and Brashear would have made a great fit. Jerry Moore, who came after Fry, was hired at Tech, not for what he did here, but because of his offensive background at Nebraska.

Yea,our job has proved to be an opportunity to lead. Dickey couldn't make up his mind about which offer to take from all the choice of jobs after 4 championships, so he waited until he was fired. We cannot build this program on the theory that somebody will come here for the "opportunity to lead and prove your worth...", and work below what the market pays. I know you don't like to talk about the money part, but programs do not live on want to alone, it costs money, and there are no shortcuts. Heck, we just got a dedicated strength coach. Oh, I did not follow UNT football in the 60's, but a good friend told me when he got here in '64, he could not wait to go to a college games. He said he was really let down by the lack of support, by the lack of enthusiasm in regards to football at UNT, and Fouts in no way lived up to what his expectations for on campus college football was like. But, they were talking about building a program, and all the upside this job had to offer. I have always wanted to meet "they". "They" seems to carry a lot power in every organization, but "they" never shows up, and backs up what they want with work and sacrifice.

Lonnie, maybe you ought to consider endowing the head coaches' position so we can get a guy from your list. And maybe the admin of our esteemed university will finally make up their minds that they really want a living, breathing on its own athletic program, thus invigorating this apathetic alumnae base. How about these two parties step up to the plate?

GD, you bring a lot of good perspective in that post, but also throw in a ton of variables that could be addressed. Your Mean Green experience is far more lengthy than my own, so perhaps someone else a little older than my meager 10 years of UNT fanaticism can elaborate better than this.

I think there are two main counterpoints to your post:

1) Our administration. 30 years of our leaders driving away alumni, actively putting coaches in a position to lose, etc. It's old hash that unfortunately, no matter what you and I want to argue regarding this point, supersedes any coaching excuses people want to lay on the table; for the same reasons, it might also mean that no matter who we move forward with, we're still doomed. Having said that, I think the recent passing of the athletics fee was a turning point in all of this and will help us turn the corner eventually.

2) In general, I think a case can be made that the college football landscape has vastly changed the last 30 years that played a part in how coaching carousals spun. There is a better opportunity to build such program and be competitive nowadays than what was going on 30 years ago that can probably be traced directly to the NCAA's implementation of the scholly limits. Maybe people around here have seen differently, or I am only seeing what I want to see, but even in my own high school days it seemed like all the non-Big 6 schools were getting hashed regularly and practically without exception 62-5 or 42-7 as part of the body-bag games. Now, I can count on UTEP to stay competitive with anyone on it's schedule through at least 3 quarters, Troy to take down someone year after year, and a budding Florida program to sprout and be a Big 6 in a matter of a decade. 30 years ago, that seems like it was a rare exception (a la Fry's teams)?

Dickey is a moot point. Why didn't ADs/coaches across the country seize the chance to hire this success story in '03 and '04? Without going into specifics, I am humbly of the opinion that in coaching (regardless of sport) there is no east coach bias and mistakes are less frequent compared to the media. Coaches know who can coach. Coaches know who can play. And I think that most directors out there saw something in our old Cadillac that did not sit well with them. Flame away if you disagree.

I completely agree that more money is conducive to a better hire and a higher propensity for success, but it should not be used as an excuse to lower the bar. For every 3 years we sit on a coach, there are 200 assistants out there that just gained 3 more years of college experience. These kinds of coaches out there that will jump at the chance. For the same reasons that Coker applied for UTSA, Schnelly took the FAU job, etc. People just like to have things to call their own.

[Green Dozer]

GD, you bring a lot of good perspective in that post, but also throw in a ton of variables that could be addressed. Your Mean Green experience is far more lengthy than my own, so perhaps someone else a little older than my meager 10 years of UNT fanaticism can elaborate better than this.

I think there are two main counterpoints to your post:

1) Our administration. 30 years of our leaders driving away alumni, actively putting coaches in a position to lose, etc. It's old hash that unfortunately, no matter what you and I want to argue regarding this point, supersedes any coaching excuses people want to lay on the table; for the same reasons, it might also mean that no matter who we move forward with, we're still doomed. Having said that, I think the recent passing of the athletics fee was a turning point in all of this and will help us turn the corner eventually.

2) In general, I think a case can be made that the college football landscape has vastly changed the last 30 years that played a part in how coaching carousals spun. There is a better opportunity to build such program and be competitive nowadays than what was going on 30 years ago that can probably be traced directly to the NCAA's implementation of the scholly limits. Maybe people around here have seen differently, or I am only seeing what I want to see, but even in my own high school days it seemed like all the non-Big 6 schools were getting hashed regularly and practically without exception 62-5 or 42-7 as part of the body-bag games. Now, I can count on UTEP to stay competitive with anyone on it's schedule through at least 3 quarters, Troy to take down someone year after year, and a budding Florida program to sprout and be a Big 6 in a matter of a decade. 30 years ago, that seems like it was a rare exception (a la Fry's teams)?

Dickey is a moot point. Why didn't ADs/coaches across the country seize the chance to hire this success story in '03 and '04? Without going into specifics, I am humbly of the opinion that in coaching (regardless of sport) there is no east coach bias and mistakes are less frequent compared to the media. Coaches know who can coach. Coaches know who can play. And I think that most directors out there saw something in our old Cadillac that did not sit well with them. Flame away if you disagree.

I completely agree that more money is conducive to a better hire and a higher propensity for success, but it should not be used as an excuse to lower the bar. For every 3 years we sit on a coach, there are 200 assistants out there that just gained 3 more years of college experience. These kinds of coaches out there that will jump at the chance. For the same reasons that Coker applied for UTSA, Schnelly took the FAU job, etc. People just like to have things to call their own.

Not totally disagreeing at all. I just still don't see why if what you have said were true, why hasn't it taken hold here. I am of the mind, like you, that this would be a great opportunity. The only problem is that the alumnae, admin, and coach have to be on the same page at the same time. That has not ever been the case here, so if we are to be an incubator if you will, then we need all three of these lamps to put out equal heat. By the way, Schnelly was nothing but a drunk at OU, don't think that would not have been used against him in our region no matter who he was the coach for. That is why he took a job in Florida, people were not beating down the door, Atlantic were the only ones who wanted him. As for Coker, there has got to be some reason why is pursuer of jobs and not the pursuee. He won the national champ, but had lots of off the field issues. Well, he already has some experience for the job here (LOL). There have been other jobs that would have been much better for somebody to prove themselves, and I never saw him considered. And, I agree with you about Dickey, but he did make the best of things here for a few years (though he was bitching and screaming the whole time), but still he did. I guess we can agree that an above average coordinator from a successful mid major might take this job to prove himself. But not a top 25 to 30 program coordinator, sorry but Veneables from OU, for example, is not going to take that kind of pay cut. I think you know that. The fee is great, and though money should not be used as an excuse as you say, but to consistently be successful you have it to raise the bar. Most victories without it take place in the movies (i.e. Rocky 1). I will say that there have been more strides in your 10 years as a fan/supporter then there were in the previous 20, so I can both see and respect your perspective. Thanks for the reply and your insight. Have a good one!

Edited February 10, 2009 by Green Dozer

[eulessismore]

Good save, Tasty. Praise was in that post, and in other places. You - I mean, they - just have to be able to read...or, find someone close to them who can. Reading is like The Humpty Dance - it's real easy to do.

Well thanks for correcting me, Tasty. And I appreciate you for defending me when I was accused of being someone else from Euless.

And my apologies to you, TFLF. And as for my being able to read, I honestly felt they taught me that during my work on a B.A. (Geography, 1977), and M.S. (Interdisciplinary Studies, 1984) at North Texas. I suppose I was just too lazy to learn to use the advanced search function on the forum. And I must admit, I commented in a personal way against you, and I don't think that's really what I'm all about. Truth be told, TFLF, I had simply tired of your postings, and never found the "ignore" function to be useful, as it only screens out the original posts, not the subsequent references to them (as far as I know; please feel free to enlighten me if that's not so). Anyway, sorry to have responded negatively to someone I had perceived as being negative.

I want to like you and others here on the board; I really feel there's no better way than to personally meet someone so as to more fully appreciate them; words alone seem inadequate to express all the meaning they contain. I guess I wanted to use sports as a way to "escape" from all the negativity that surrounds everything else in the discussion of current events. But anyway, Tasty did teach me that on the matter we're discussing that I was wrong. it's usually better when it's that way, because I actually am rather pessimistic. And just in case you're thinking I'm some sort of Dodge apologist to come to find you tedious, TFLF, not really. I just haven't come to accept the notion that more money won't be needed to improve our long range football coaching needs, and haven't heard how we can some up with that money real soon. Yes, I agree it's possible that we could hire somewhat to do better with the money that we have to offer (is Dickey still being compensated by us?), once they had won enough long enough, we'd have to pay them more to keep them from being hired away.

Anyway, one of the few extended periods I can remember for sport to provide some enjoyment away from class or work was watching North Texas basketball during the Bill Blakeley era; yes winning makes it more fun. And I'd still like to join some of you for a basketball game sometime soon. However, I'd have a hard time getting my wife to stay the entire game when we were blowing someone out. I hope I can say that sometime about a football game. Ok, winning by a point against Ohio in our home opener would be fine; a good start for whoever ends up coaching next year.

And yes, TFLF, I do read, mostly nonfiction. Currently, I'm getting a lot of enjoyment out of "The Sun and The Moon, The Remarkable True Account of Hoaxers, Showmen, Dueling Jounalists, and Lunar Man Bats in Nineteenth-Century New York" by Matthew Goodman. It's about the news, fiction, and pretty much everything in between, similar to this forum in taht way. I hope you're finding interesting reading these days. And hey, if I weren't off to watch the Abraham Lincoln thing on PBS, I'd look up your website that I recall your posting something about not long ago. Now that I have learned that "advanced search function", I'll look up the topic and check out your work. I'm sure you're doing well with it.

[Quoner]

Well thanks for correcting me, Tasty. And I appreciate you for defending me when I was accused of being someone else from Euless.

That was my fault. But to be fair, all you white people look so damn alike.