Why I Still Back Dodge

greenminer · January 16, 2009

Would any of you be happy with a coach that had these records?
After two seasons: 4-20-2
After three seasons: 9-28-3
After four seasons: 13-38-3
After five seasons: 18-46-4
After six seasons: 25-53-4

A while back I tried the same approach, with something that's a little closer to home.

I think it was some combination of 1) no one cares to respond to my poor wit and/or 2) no one picked up on it.

Tasty, no dollar

Edited January 16, 2009 by greenminer

LoveMG · January 16, 2009

Why I Still Back Dodge? i dont.

Mean Green 93-98 · January 16, 2009

So Dodge did what we wanted him to do and now we are complaining about even that? All I want is the same standard in judging Deloach as we have for Dodge.

I will say that DeLoach is being judged on 1 year's performance, while Dodge is being judged on 2. While people were generally disappointed with Dodge's year 1 performance, it wasn't comparable to the current outcry. Also, DeLoach has proven that he can coach at the college level while Dodge hasn't, at least not as a head coach. That doesn't mean that Dodge can't, it just means he hasn't proven it yet.

I would very much like to sit down with DeLoach and talk to him about the reasons for the defense's performance. He had (I believe) the number 3 defense in the nation when he was here a few years ago, and last year he had the worst. Why? Are the players that much worse? Are his assistants that much worse? Does his defense not complement Dodge's offense as well as it did Dickey's? Are the players just too young and inexperienced? Did he try a different approach to his job that backfired?

Edited January 16, 2009 by Mean Green 93-98

Censored by Laurie · January 16, 2009

It's all part of our master plan to hire Donovan McNabb

We should stock up on soup.

UNT90 · January 16, 2009

Please name 1 head coach that totally controls both the offense and defense. I'm pretty sure you would have to go down to pee wee because even middle school teams have offensive and defensive coordinators. Yes, the head coach is responsible for the overall performance of the team, but the HC usually specializes on one side of the ball. The responsibility of the HC is to have the proper coordinators and coaches to have all parts of the team performing. The defense didn't perform under Mendoza so he was fired, much to the delight of everyone on the board because he was a "high school" coach that was "overmatched". Dodge brought in the Chosen One, Gary Deloach, to run the defense, even more to the delight than the Mendoza firing. yet Deloach's defense was just as bad. So Dodge did exactly what everyone wanted him to do to correct what was going on on the defensive side of the ball and there was no improvement. The defense was by far the worst unit on the team in terms of ultimate impact on our gigantic ass kickings(not to praise the special teams, but the defense was just that bad).
So Dodge did what we wanted him to do and now we are complaining about even that? All I want is the same standard in judging Deloach as we have for Dodge.

Again, this not about Deloach, but about the head coach. Who cares what everyone wanted him to do. I doubt that 1 person on this board is qualified to assess and hire a college defensive coordinator. If Dodge hired Deloach because that is what people wanted, then that is yet another reason he shouldn't be head coach. I'm not a huge Deloach supported and never have been. I did think he was a solid hire at the time, and may still be. I also thought that Dodge was a good hire at the time, but think that the end of his service here is fast approaching.

Just because you think someone is a good hire doesn't mean you can't change your opinion based on performance. There is no way to be critical of Deloach without being critical of Dodge, and vise versa.

Rudy · January 16, 2009

Why I Still Back Dodge? i dont.

Even if you dont, those who do not need to please make it clear that you are still supporting the team and you are still going to be a fan and coming to games. We dont want to lose anyone who can help us because they think that the fans are going to abandon them

Dodge2007 · January 16, 2009

You have to support him because that is what's in place.

I am curious how many wins he needs to stay or is it about just being competitive.

I believe this team will make big strides being competitive but will it be enough?

Green Dozer · January 16, 2009

I will say that DeLoach is being judged on 1 year's performance, while Dodge is being judged on 2. While people were generally disappointed with Dodge's year 1 performance, it wasn't comparable to the current outcry. Also, DeLoach has proven that he can coach at the college level while Dodge hasn't, at least not as a head coach. That doesn't mean that Dodge can't, it just means he hasn't proven it yet.
I would very much like to sit down with DeLoach and talk to him about the reasons for the defense's performance. He had (I believe) the number 3 defense in the nation when he was here a few years ago, and last year he had the worst. Why? Are the players that much worse? Are his assistants that much worse? Does his defense not complement Dodge's offense as well as it did Dickey's? Are the players just too young and inexperienced? Did he try a different approach to his job that backfired?

Just saying, Mendoza was given only one year, and we barbecued him. Clearly over his head, but if you cook a guy w/ no experience, why does one w/ experience get a pass? Not being a smart ass 93-98, so don't jump down my throat. I am just asking. Thanks!

Mean Green 93-98 · January 16, 2009

Just saying, Mendoza was given only one year, and we barbecued him. Clearly over his head, but if you cook a guy w/ no experience, why does one w/ experience get a pass?

That point wouldn't apply, but the fact that DeLoach has proven himself before does. Not saying he necessarily deserves the pass, but perception, as they say, is reality.

TheTastyGreek · January 17, 2009

That point wouldn't apply, but the fact that DeLoach has proven himself before does. Not saying he necessarily deserves the pass, but perception, as they say, is reality.

I don't think DeLoach got a pass.

But his defense didn't have Jeremiah Chapman, Aaron Weathers, Brandon Monroe, Montey Stevenson, Derek Mendoza, Maurice Holman, and Blake Burruss on it. When you take a team that was average and turn them into the worst squad in D-1 football, that's atrocious. When you take the worst defense in D-1 football, subtract a strong core of talented, proven performers, and then come up with the worst defense in D-1 football... That's still unacceptable, but I'm more inclined to give you a year to see whether you can improve or not. Especially when you've got a proven track record of building a defense here.

If we didn't have an adequate defense in 2006, Mendoza probably doesn't get roasted like he did in 2007. If DeLoach had the players Mendoza had in 2007 (not a knock on the younger guys, I still haven't given up on their development), we probably don't have the worst defense 2 years in a row.

Youth is not an excuse. But youth is certainly a mitigating factor. The other reason I'm inclined to give Gary another year before even questioning things is because of our situation at D-Tackle. The injuries there... Again, I don't mean to disparage the talent or effort of anyone that suited up for us at DT last season, but I think it's fair to say that we're far from proven or settled at that spot. Start with a young, unsettled, inexperienced crew. Take away our most established and experienced player in Joe Miller, then take away Charlie Brown on top of that (who was out of position from DE already)...

Let me go at it from this angle, because there's no question in my mind that Eddrick Gilmore is a fantastic athlete and a very, very talented defensive lineman. When Gary DeLoach looks down his depth chart and decides that Eddrick is his best available option at a DT slot... That tells me something. Eddie is tall, fast, and under 250 pounds. When a guy who knows how to assemble, plan, and coach a championship caliber defense thinks that's his best remaining option (redshirts aside) for a DT... The problem isn't coaching. Even Zombie Landry can't coach Gilmore to 280 pounds.

I'm not making excuses for DeLoach. Last place is not an acceptable place for us to be. That's not where job security comes from.

But we didn't get Gary DeLoach from District 6-5A and Gary DeLoach didn't oversee the complete collapse of a previously adequate defense. His predecessor wasn't fired strictly due to outcome, it was outcome in light of regressed performance from an established team of players.

When you have no track record in college, few to no peers who defend your performance, and you take proven talent and get the worst results in D-1 football out of them... Yeah, you're likely to get fired pretty quickly.

When you're a proven commodity and a small-scale legend at North Texas, you take over a roster with much less proven (not potential... proven and demonstrated on the college level) talent, and you're operating as best you can under the Southlake Carroll Con Man... I'm inclined to give you a year (or maybe two!) before I start questioning things.

I know Gary DeLoach can make a North Texas defense work. Not just work, but DOMINATE. He's been successful here and elsewhere. I know he can do it. If Gary DeLoach can't build a successful defense under Todd Dodge, I don't think anyone can.

Eagle1855 · January 17, 2009

Oh, I bet this is going somewhere.

Harry · January 17, 2009

I don't think DeLoach got a pass.
But his defense didn't have Jeremiah Chapman, Aaron Weathers, Brandon Monroe, Montey Stevenson, Derek Mendoza, Maurice Holman, and Blake Burruss on it. When you take a team that was average and turn them into the worst squad in D-1 football, that's atrocious. When you take the worst defense in D-1 football, subtract a strong core of talented, proven performers, and then come up with the worst defense in D-1 football... That's still unacceptable, but I'm more inclined to give you a year to see whether you can improve or not. Especially when you've got a proven track record of building a defense here.
If we didn't have an adequate defense in 2006, Mendoza probably doesn't get roasted like he did in 2007. If DeLoach had the players Mendoza had in 2007 (not a knock on the younger guys, I still haven't given up on their development), we probably don't have the worst defense 2 years in a row.
Youth is not an excuse. But youth is certainly a mitigating factor. The other reason I'm inclined to give Gary another year before even questioning things is because of our situation at D-Tackle. The injuries there... Again, I don't mean to disparage the talent or effort of anyone that suited up for us at DT last season, but I think it's fair to say that we're far from proven or settled at that spot. Start with a young, unsettled, inexperienced crew. Take away our most established and experienced player in Joe Miller, then take away Charlie Brown on top of that (who was out of position from DE already)...
Let me go at it from this angle, because there's no question in my mind that Eddrick Gilmore is a fantastic athlete and a very, very talented defensive lineman. When Gary DeLoach looks down his depth chart and decides that Eddrick is his best available option at a DT slot... That tells me something. Eddie is tall, fast, and under 250 pounds. When a guy who knows how to assemble, plan, and coach a championship caliber defense thinks that's his best remaining option (redshirts aside) for a DT... The problem isn't coaching. Even Zombie Landry can't coach Gilmore to 280 pounds.
I'm not making excuses for DeLoach. Last place is not an acceptable place for us to be. That's not where job security comes from.
But we didn't get Gary DeLoach from District 6-5A and Gary DeLoach didn't oversee the complete collapse of a previously adequate defense. His predecessor wasn't fired strictly due to outcome, it was outcome in light of regressed performance from an established team of players.
When you have no track record in college, few to no peers who defend your performance, and you take proven talent and get the worst results in D-1 football out of them... Yeah, you're likely to get fired pretty quickly.
When you're a proven commodity and a small-scale legend at North Texas, you take over a roster with much less proven (not potential... proven and demonstrated on the college level) talent, and you're operating as best you can under the Southlake Carroll Con Man... I'm inclined to give you a year (or maybe two!) before I start questioning things.
I know Gary DeLoach can make a North Texas defense work. Not just work, but DOMINATE. He's been successful here and elsewhere. I know he can do it. If Gary DeLoach can't build a successful defense under Todd Dodge, I don't think anyone can.

Very solid post. I agree 100%. DeLoach is a very good defensive coach when he has the players.

GreenMachine · January 17, 2009

Who is this new head coach? Did something happen today I wasn't aware of?

what? you haven't been reading the great news on here over and over and over? NT fired Dodge and hired Callahan, we've been celebrating this for days! :ph34r: