Why I Still Back Dodge

SilverEagle · January 15, 2009

I want Dodge to win because it's good for UNT. This is a critical time in our history. We either become mainstream with the rest of the teams in our conference or we start over. We should be competitive with the lower half of the non-AQ conferences at the least. Last year, our offense was mediocre and our defense the pits. Here is our ranking amongst the 119 FBS teams last year by category:
OFFENSE
Rushing - 82
Passing - 44
Total Offense - 57
Scoring - 102
Passing Efficiency - 94
Sacks Allowed - 71
DEFENSE
Rushing - 105
Pass Efficiency - 118
Total Defense - 119
Scoring - 119
Pass Defense - 115
Sacks - T112
Tackles for Loss - 111
SPECIAL TEAMS
Net Punting - 108
Punt Returns - 111
Kickoff Returns - 114
Turnover Margin - 116
Can any of your see this drastically improving as it needs to? I'm hopeful, but not holding my breath. We've lost our top quarterback and our top two receivers. We've lost our top punter (who was not bad in gross punting average yards). We even lost two of our better special teams players.
I'm not a Dickey fan but he accomplished far more defensively with lesser rated players. We have made offensive improvements but our defense is far worse. We're not trying to equal Dickey; that's what got Dickey fired. Dodge needs to be better, hopefully much better, than his predecessor.
I hope that he is able to turn this program around dramatically because we need to and we need to this year. Except for Alabama, this is a very winnable schedule. Let's pray that the 2009 team is up to the task.

You know Jack. All of the stats that you just posted puts me in mind of a story that my sister told me about a problem solving conversation that she was trying to have with a neighbor about that neighbor's out of control children. The neighbor said to my sister "Now, I don't want to hear any lies about my kids", whereupon my sister said "I don't have to make up any lies......THE TRUTH'S BAD ENOUGH. :disgust:

Got5onIt · January 15, 2009

I don't

UNT90 · January 15, 2009

Who is this new head coach? Did something happen today I wasn't aware of?

The point was that it is the head coach that needs to be replaced, and then he could choose to keep whomever, but would still be accountable.

But I guess, to you, Dodge is only responsible for the offense.

class84 · January 15, 2009

I'm hanging my hat on the fact that the team played really hard in the ASU game when they had absolutely nothing to play for against a much better team. It showed me that Todge hadn't completely lost the team, and maybe we did have something to build on for this year.

It's not much, admittedly, but it's the only light I can find.

NT80 · January 15, 2009

Our contract with Dodge is strictly a business relationship. He is not an alum, not my neighbor, nor friend or relative. Thus my support and backing is strictly results-based. Show me results and you get my backing.

aztecskin · January 15, 2009

My first hint that PapaDodge was not going to be a hall of fame type coach here at UNT was when the Sun Belt teams started shellacking us. Talent is more or less equal, and it looked like we didn't belong on the same field at times. That is what made me lower my expectations. I no longer thought that PapaDodge would lift us to new heights. I was now hoping for a poor man's version of the Dickey years.

I am more worried about who would want to come here after we fire Dodge in the next year or two.

Baby Arm! · January 15, 2009

I would like to refresh everyone's memory that Dodge could have had more than 2 weeks to recruit if he hadn't chosen to coach the high school all star game that is played at the conclusion of the state championship games. That is a tired excuse and just another for Dodge to add to his list of why it is the players' fault and never his. Honestly, if he had truly committed himself to the University of North Texas, recruiting would and should have been his #1 priority.

Although there is plenty to knock Dodge for, the above statement is revisionist history and complete and total Bullsh*t. Dodge didn't coach any all star game at the conclusion of the high school season. He finished the season with SLC, but he didn't participate in the all star game. He had already been announced as the HC at North Texas effective after the state championship game. Dodge said he would have liked the honor of coaching the all star game but couldn't because it would have been violating NCAA recruiting rules for him to have contact with any of those players.

Find some other reasons to knock Dodge, you don't have to make them up

Ibleedgreen · January 15, 2009

I do.

e-bone ver2.awesome · January 15, 2009

The point was that it is the head coach that needs to be replaced, and then he could choose to keep whomever, but would still be accountable.
But I guess, to you, Dodge is only responsible for the offense.

Huh? Like I said, everyone called for Mendoza's head and Dodge replaced him with Deloach, much to the delight of everyone here on the board. He did exactly what we wanted him to do to solve our problems on defense. What more do you want him to do? Personally take over the defense? I'm sure he knows more than his fair share on the defensive side of the ball and has a big say-so in the overall strategy, but Deloach was brought in to be the man that turned the defense around. He is the guy we wanted Dodge to hire and Dodge is getting blasted for it now by people like you. I just can't figure that out.

GoMeanGreen1999 · January 15, 2009

Perception wise, I think most folks would agree that the SBC of today is stronger than it was back then. I know that the numbers and the results say differently in his story, but I still believe that the SBC is much better than it was back then. As a matter of fact, I beleive that the SBC of today isn't that bad of a conference. But, I didn't think that back in 2001-2004. I think that Troy's program and FAU's program would have won the conference back then. This isn't saying we wouldn't have competed as well, but DD supporters make that stretch out to be HOF worthy. It wasn't. That is what makes me look at DD's timeframe as just being average--that any other COLLEGE coach could have done as well or better here. And, just to be fair, I think Dodge has been terrible, much worse than Dickey.

Well I was NOT a DD fan, but I will give him his props for winning 4 straight titles. He won what 26 conference games in row? I suppose if you want to say that the Belt is better now perception wise, fine, but the numbers say it's not. You believe that any COLLEGE coach could have done as weel or better here....what made it so much better here for it to happen then say some other Belt team during that time?

Censored by Laurie · January 15, 2009

Good times.

Its always me saying "yeah they are."

Green Nightmare · January 15, 2009

Huh? Like I said, everyone called for Mendoza's head and Dodge replaced him with Deloach, much to the delight of everyone here on the board. He did exactly what we wanted him to do to solve our problems on defense.

I think if you search the archives on the board, you will find changing D coordinators was not TD's idea.

UNT90 · January 15, 2009

Huh? Like I said, everyone called for Mendoza's head and Dodge replaced him with Deloach, much to the delight of everyone here on the board. He did exactly what we wanted him to do to solve our problems on defense. What more do you want him to do? Personally take over the defense? I'm sure he knows more than his fair share on the defensive side of the ball and has a big say-so in the overall strategy, but Deloach was brought in to be the man that turned the defense around. He is the guy we wanted Dodge to hire and Dodge is getting blasted for it now by people like you. I just can't figure that out.

The head coach is responsible for the entire team. Offense, Defense, Special Teams. We were moderately bad on offense, horrible on defense and special teams. This issue isn't about the D coordinator, it is about the head coach. I am indifferent to Deloach at this point. If there was a new head coach, and he decided to keep Deloach on, so be it. But that new head coach would still be RESPONSIBLE for the overall performance of the team.

The fact that we have had two different D Coordinators that have both put the worst defense in college football on the field should say alot about the head coach, no??

untjim1995 · January 15, 2009

Well I was NOT a DD fan, but I will give him his props for winning 4 straight titles. He won what 26 conference games in row? I suppose if you want to say that the Belt is better now perception wise, fine, but the numbers say it's not. You believe that any COLLEGE coach could have done as weel or better here....what made it so much better here for it to happen then say some other Belt team during that time?

Well, if memory serves me, only once did we send another team to a bowl game during our championship years, which was Troy in 2003. People remember Middle because they beat Vandy in the first year of Sun Belt, but they had just moved up from I-AA so they had many I-A transfers, IIRC. After that, the great coaching of Andy Mac really showed up for MTSU. Also, at the same time, Roberts at ASU was just getting going, as well. Bustle at ULL was new, as was Weatherbie at ULM. NMSU was average at best, Idaho and USU were just bad. Basically, DD got the beenfit of a new conference with teams that were either terrible or had coaches that were just starting to build their programs.

Let's say we had a coach here at that time like Turner Gill, a guy who has been very energetic in building a program and wanted to watch it grow into a success. Turner Gill (not that he was a choice back then, but you get the idea as an example), in my opnion, would have enjoyed similar success as DD and we would have been better off because of attitude and energy, not to mention no bore-us-to-sleep, run-the-draw-on-every-down coaching that DD was known for. That is why I think it is imperative to have your coach be a guy that fans want to support, but one who also knows what they are doing X's and O's wise, unlike Dodge apparently. DD may have been a decent X's and O's guy, but he was massively horrible in regards to energy or fan appeal, which is why I cannot beleive we have anything named after him at this school, but have nothing named after Hayden Fry. Only at UNT.

UNTLifer · January 16, 2009

Would any of you be happy with a coach that had these records?

After two seasons: 4-20-2

After three seasons: 9-28-3

After four seasons: 13-38-3

After five seasons: 18-46-4

After six seasons: 25-53-4

Quoner · January 16, 2009

Would any of you be happy with a coach that had these records?
After two seasons: 4-20-2
After three seasons: 9-28-3
After four seasons: 13-38-3
After five seasons: 18-46-4
After six seasons: 25-53-4

Oh, I bet this is going somewhere.

I think all anyone wanted was the first two years of Dodge to match or slightly exceed the previous two years of Dickey. It was an extremely low bar, but hey, let's see where this is going....

mad dog · January 16, 2009

Its always me saying "yeah they are."

I don't know... I'll probably have to go all seven innings for us.

UNTLifer · January 16, 2009

I think all anyone wanted was the first two years of Dodge to match or slightly exceed the previous two years of Dickey. It was an extremely low bar, but hey, let's see where this is going....

I think our expectations were the same at the time he was hired.

Quoner · January 16, 2009

I think our expectations were the same at the time he was hired.

Seems a little presumptuous to speak for everybody's expectations but I'll speak for mine.

I expected year one to be a bit messy as things turned over and figured we would win 2-4 games.

I figured year 2 would give us a 2 game improvement.

I figured year 3 we would start to see the system and players mature and take us around .500. I was told a few times that these expectations were on the low side and I should demand more for North Texas.

I said let's see where this goes because I was waiting for you to peel back the curtain and give us the aha moment like that email forward where you find out that Hitler was a great job candidate and Roosevelt would have never been selected.

Censored by Laurie · January 16, 2009

Would any of you be happy with a coach that had these records?
After two seasons: 4-20-2
After three seasons: 9-28-3
After four seasons: 13-38-3
After five seasons: 18-46-4
After six seasons: 25-53-4

Thats a lot of ties.

Quoner · January 16, 2009

Thats a lot of ties.

It's all part of our master plan to hire Donovan McNabb

Mean Green 93-98 · January 16, 2009

I expected a lot more than we've received. I don't remember my thoughts exactly, but I believe I expected somewhere around 4 wins the first year, to be about .500 the second year, to be competing for a Belt championship the third, and to be brushing shoulders with the big boys the fourth. Perhaps that might have been more wishful thinking than actual expectation, but it did not seem out of the realm of the possible.

Obviously, I have had to retool my expectations for years 3 and 4 pretty significantly. I hope for 6 wins in year 3, but I don't really expect it.

That said, I'm not throwing in the towel on Dodge yet. He has a tremendous mind for football, and will be a very good college coach at some point. I just hope things begin to click next year rather than further down the road when he is at another school.

UNTLifer · January 16, 2009

Seems a little presumptuous to speak for everybody's expectations but I'll speak for mine.

My statement was that my expectations were the same as your expectations, not everyone on the board.

The point of my post is not to compare Dodge to this person, but to point out that sometimes a little patience is needed, because we, the fans, don't really know what all if going on behind closed doors. Sure, we hear reports from those "in the know," but we really aren't there to witness what the coach is encountered with on a day to day basis.

The coach's record noted above is that of Tom Landry. I'm sure many wanted him fired, thought he was in over his head, didn't like how he ran the program, etc...but sometimes patience is rewarded. Then again, sometimes it isn't.

It's a gamble to hold on to Dodge to see where this all goes. Hopefully it is a gamble with Landry like results.

It is also a gamble to fire and hire every two or three years. Sure, you may hit lightening in a bottle, but you may also never allow a coach enough time to institute his system to be successful.

I choose to believe in the first gamble, hold on to Dodge and see where he leads NT football, as I don't believe you have the success he had as a QB, Collegiate OC/QB Coach and High School Coach without knowing what you are doing. Time will tell, and I could be all wrong, hope I'm not, but I could be.

Rudy · January 16, 2009

Look, is anyone happy about last year's record? Lord I hope not. But, he is OUR coach. We need to support him and the team. If we had gotten rid of JJ after 2 seasons, where would our basketball team be? If I remember correctly, it took him 3 or 4 season before we really saw improvement. Then what happens? WE make the NCAA tourney, we start a season 3 - 0 and beat Ok St, Then we go to their house and play a very strong game the next season.

You all know the saying that Rome was not built overnight. Well the Roman Empire wasnt destroyed overnight either. Same for this program. It was on a decline DD's last couple of years. Think of Dodge as a paramedic. He arrives on scene and the victim (NT FB) is bleeding profusely. The victim is going to still bleed a little before Dodge gets the bleeding stopped. I know I am using a lot of analogies here, but I think too many got spoiled by the 4 conference championships. The SBC got better and we did not. This program will not get turned around overnight.

Basicly, what I am saying is either support the program, or dont. Right now we are a bunch of arguing little kids and it is going to make other kids not want to come play in our sandbox.

e-bone ver2.awesome · January 16, 2009

The head coach is responsible for the entire team. Offense, Defense, Special Teams. We were moderately bad on offense, horrible on defense and special teams. This issue isn't about the D coordinator, it is about the head coach. I am indifferent to Deloach at this point. If there was a new head coach, and he decided to keep Deloach on, so be it. But that new head coach would still be RESPONSIBLE for the overall performance of the team.
The fact that we have had two different D Coordinators that have both put the worst defense in college football on the field should say alot about the head coach, no??

Please name 1 head coach that totally controls both the offense and defense. I'm pretty sure you would have to go down to pee wee because even middle school teams have offensive and defensive coordinators. Yes, the head coach is responsible for the overall performance of the team, but the HC usually specializes on one side of the ball. The responsibility of the HC is to have the proper coordinators and coaches to have all parts of the team performing. The defense didn't perform under Mendoza so he was fired, much to the delight of everyone on the board because he was a "high school" coach that was "overmatched". Dodge brought in the Chosen One, Gary Deloach, to run the defense, even more to the delight than the Mendoza firing. yet Deloach's defense was just as bad. So Dodge did exactly what everyone wanted him to do to correct what was going on on the defensive side of the ball and there was no improvement. The defense was by far the worst unit on the team in terms of ultimate impact on our gigantic ass kickings(not to praise the special teams, but the defense was just that bad).

So Dodge did what we wanted him to do and now we are complaining about even that? All I want is the same standard in judging Deloach as we have for Dodge.