Why I Still Back Dodge

[untjim1995]

Not even close. We won 3 games Dickeys last year. We've won 3 Dodge's first 2 years. Go back and look and the final scores of Dickey's last year, then compare those to the final scores last year for Dodge. To say that last year in any way, shape, or form compared to Dickey's last year is revisionist history.

I wasn't a fan of Dickey and hate when I have to point this stuff out.

The way I look at the Dodge vs. Dickey thing is really pretty simple. Dickey was not that good of a coach, he just benefited from the early SBC. Otherwise, his record would have really sucked. And, Dodge has been worse. Both were/are not what this program needs in a HC. Prior to these two, Simon was a joke (trust me, I worked under him for two years), and Parker was in way over his head. Except for Corky Nelson, who we somehow fired even though he led us to hang with programs we had no business competing with at a I-AA level, and Hayden Fry, who did what most coaches at small schools do--leave for greener pastures, the last 35 years of coaching picks at this fine institution have been well below par. Just goes to show what happens when the university is apathetic toward athletics. The next year will be interesting no matter what happens because we either see major Dodge improvement and he stays, or we see him get fired and we try again to hire someone to get us going in the right direction as we enter a new stadium (hopefully).

[NT03]

I do not see any vast difference between Dickey's last two and Dodges first 2.

1112-650 , that's a 462 point gap , that's an average of 231 more points allowed per season

231 + points against is a vast difference , that almost 3 more TDs allowed per game

Edited January 14, 2009 by NT03

[GoMeanGreen1999]

Dickey was not that good of a coach, he just benefited from the early SBC. Otherwise, his record would have really sucked.

Just benefited from the early SBC being down? If so, go here: http://tysports.blogspot.com/2008/10/build...r-sun-belt.html

[Monkeypox]

Just benefited from the early SBC being down? If so, go here: http://tysports.blogspot.com/2008/10/build...r-sun-belt.html

Not to answer for Jim, but I've read it and was unimpressed. The Sun Belt now is way better than it was in our upstart days.

[untjim1995]

Just benefited from the early SBC being down? If so, go here: http://tysports.blogspot.com/2008/10/build...r-sun-belt.html

Perception wise, I think most folks would agree that the SBC of today is stronger than it was back then. I know that the numbers and the results say differently in his story, but I still believe that the SBC is much better than it was back then. As a matter of fact, I beleive that the SBC of today isn't that bad of a conference. But, I didn't think that back in 2001-2004. I think that Troy's program and FAU's program would have won the conference back then. This isn't saying we wouldn't have competed as well, but DD supporters make that stretch out to be HOF worthy. It wasn't. That is what makes me look at DD's timeframe as just being average--that any other COLLEGE coach could have done as well or better here. And, just to be fair, I think Dodge has been terrible, much worse than Dickey.

[GrandGreen]

Dodge's first 2 years: 3 - 21

Opponents combined record 2008: 77 - 73 (SBC: 43 - 98) Points for: 240, Points against: 571

Opponents combined record 2007: 63 - 78 (SBC: 36 - 54) Points for: 298, Points against: 541

Dickey's last 2 years: 5 - 18

Opponents combined record 2006: 68 - 81 (SBC: 39 - 50) Points for: 154, Points against: 304 (FIU went 0-12)

Opponents combined record 2005: 64 - 82 (SBC: 32 - 46) Points for: 157, Points against: 346

I do not see any vast difference between Dickey's last two and Dodges first 2.

You don't see a lot of difference in getting outscored by over 3 more tds a game. I was one of DD's biggest critics but this team went from real bad but relatively competitive under DD to undoubtedly the worst in the nation.

[Rudy]

First off, the way everyone talks, its as if everyone expected to be winning 9 games right off the bat. You also have to understand that the SBC has improved, while we have not. So yes, There is going to be a bigger point differential. Im not saying there is nothing wrong. Im saying that Dodge still needs more time, and that I dont believe that we would be any better if DD was still here.

[Green Mean]

Good times.

[UNT90]

Dodge's first 2 years: 3 - 21

Opponents combined record 2008: 77 - 73 (SBC: 43 - 98) Points for: 240, Points against: 571

Opponents combined record 2007: 63 - 78 (SBC: 36 - 54) Points for: 298, Points against: 541

Dickey's last 2 years: 5 - 18

Opponents combined record 2006: 68 - 81 (SBC: 39 - 50) Points for: 154, Points against: 304 (FIU went 0-12)

Opponents combined record 2005: 64 - 82 (SBC: 32 - 46) Points for: 157, Points against: 346

I do not see any vast difference between Dickey's last two and Dodges first 2.

In 2005 we averaged a final score of 29 - 13

In 2006 we averaged a final score of 25 - 12

Not great, which is why Dickey was fired.

In 2007 we averaged a final score of 45 - 25

In 2008 we averaged a final score of 49 - 20

These are your numbers.

To me, there are no comparisons. We go from a moderately bad college football team to the absolute worst team in D1A and people are still willing to wait until 2010? I understand waiting until the middle of 2009. I personally think that is wasting another 1/2 year, but I understand that we are locked into this.

I would understand waiting if we had simply maintained the level that we were at (remember, really bad, which is why someone was fired) and had bright prospects ahead. I see nothing to indicate any change from last year, and think we may actually get worse (yes, that is possible).

That said, I hope Dodge wins 6 games and makes me look stupid (remember, no personal attacks, the mods are watching ).

[Quoner]

First off, the way everyone talks, its as if everyone expected to be winning 9 games right off the bat. You also have to understand that the SBC has improved, while we have not. So yes, There is going to be a bigger point differential. Im not saying there is nothing wrong. Im saying that Dodge still needs more time, and that I dont believe that we would be any better if DD was still here.

Is there any existing analysis or location where this could be debated into the ground - perhaps back in time a little after mid-season?

I think if we were losing more competitive games, you would probably find one dozen or less Dodge-haters out there. It's the stunning severity of the losses that seems to stick with folks.

Remember the shock when MTSU beat us 35-0? Now that would be a celebrated defensive victory and that is why many folks have turned.

Edited January 14, 2009 by Quoner

[Fitzyrection]

I am a firm believer that a new coach gets 4 years to succeed. It should be especially true when that coach is tearing down and rebuilding its offense.

I expect improvement next year, but I will not jump on the Fire Dodge bandwagon until December 2010.

You're out of your mind. A coach at any level should be fired after two seasons if their total record is 3-21 with almost every one of those 21 losses being embarassments.

Not to mention all of the players that have quit/transferred.

This is a D-1 program, dammit. We should expect more in 2 seasons than what we are getting from this coaching staff.

[e-bone ver2.awesome]

I agree partly with this sentiment. You won't see this happen if so many want him gone, no matter what. I will support the program, what I can't see myself supporting is a coach who makes no adjustments to his coaching, offense or staff (even after the dismal two years) to help the program. If he changes some of his coaching decisions, and gets off his high horse and lets people who know the COLLEGE game help him coach, then I will start to support the Coach. I feel bad for the players, and I know it's a two way street, but from what I have heard, the ol' ball coach isn't helping things.

Go Mean Green.

He brought in The Chosen One(Gay Deloach) to run the defense and it was still the worst in the country. The offense was mediocre and would have been much better without as many bad turnovers at seemingly the worst possible times(see ya, Vizza), but the defense was horrendous. Is Dodge being blamed for the defense too?

[Green Dozer]

You're out of your mind. A coach at any level should be fired after two seasons if their total record is 3-21 with almost every one of those 21 losses being embarassments.

Not to mention all of the players that have quit/transferred.

This is a D-1 program, dammit. We should expect more in 2 seasons than what we are getting from this coaching staff.

I feel your enthusiasm. Unfortunately, attrition would have happened if we had been winning the past two seasons. It is just a part of change. The sad thing is most on this board would not care who left if we were winning, chalking it up as part of the process when a coaching change is made.

[UNT90]

This is a D-1 program, dammit. We should expect more in 2 seasons than what we are getting from this coaching staff.

Love that phrase. Wish more people around here would use it.

[UNT90]

Is Dodge being blamed for the defense too?

Is he the friggin head coach or the offensive coordinator. Yes, he is to blame for the defense, both years. It's his responsibility.

[e-bone ver2.awesome]

Is he the friggin head coach or the offensive coordinator. Yes, he is to blame for the defense, both years. It's his responsibility.

So we complain that he has a "high school" DC after that DC heads up the worst defense in the country. Fine. Dodge brings in the "D1" DC that everyone thinks is the best DC around and have fond memories of his great defenses when he was previously here. The "D1" DC's defense is again the worst in the country. You are blaming Dodge for the defense despite him doing what everyone wanted him to do. Are you saying we need another new DC?

[NT91]

In TD and RD at QB and the 2009 NT team I trust!

[GreenBat]

Are you saying we need another new DC?

No, we're saying NT needs to bring in better players.

[UNT90]

So we complain that he has a "high school" DC after that DC heads up the worst defense in the country. Fine. Dodge brings in the "D1" DC that everyone thinks is the best DC around and have fond memories of his great defenses when he was previously here. The "D1" DC's defense is again the worst in the country. You are blaming Dodge for the defense despite him doing what everyone wanted him to do. Are you saying we need another new DC?

If the new head coach decides to keep Deloach, fine. But he will also be responsible for the defense's performance.

[e-bone ver2.awesome]

If the new head coach decides to keep Deloach, fine. But he will also be responsible for the defense's performance.

Who is this new head coach? Did something happen today I wasn't aware of?

[Quoner]

So we complain that he has a "high school" DC after that DC heads up the worst defense in the country. Fine. Dodge brings in the "D1" DC that everyone thinks is the best DC around and have fond memories of his great defenses when he was previously here. The "D1" DC's defense is again the worst in the country. You are blaming Dodge for the defense despite him doing what everyone wanted him to do. Are you saying we need another new DC?

You have everyone in a corner an soon your logical paradox will cause their heads to explode, just like you wanted.

We'll find out next year if perhaps the talent this year was below last year's but improved through coaching and experience as other defensive players are added to a group that was baptized by fire. If not, people will just treat the Deloach return like that whole MJ Wizards' comeback and focus on the good times.

[KingDL1]

Who is this new head coach? Did something happen today I wasn't aware of?

You didn't hear I think its Bill Cowher!

[mean green d]

I still back Dodge to this day. I believe in the theory that he did not have enough time when he first came here to recruit his type of player. That can take a good amount of time to not only find the right talent, but also the type of player that fits your program from a mindset standpoint. If we are patient, I believe we will see the results we are looking for.

GMG

[e-bone ver2.awesome]

You have everyone in a corner an soon your logical paradox will cause their heads to explode, just like you wanted.

We'll find out next year if perhaps the talent this year was below last year's but improved through coaching and experience as other defensive players are added to a group that was baptized by fire. If not, people will just treat the Deloach return like that whole MJ Wizards' comeback and focus on the good times.

I sincerely hope and think that Deloach can do it, I am just trying to point out the double standard we have here. If we don't see significant improvement on both sides of the ball next season then both Dodge and Deloach need to be gone. However, the most improvement can be had with the defense. An average defense makes this a much, much better team.

[Guest GrayEagleOne]

I want Dodge to win because it's good for UNT. This is a critical time in our history. We either become mainstream with the rest of the teams in our conference or we start over. We should be competitive with the lower half of the non-AQ conferences at the least. Last year, our offense was mediocre and our defense the pits. Here is our ranking amongst the 119 FBS teams last year by category:

OFFENSE

Rushing - 82

Passing - 44

Total Offense - 57

Scoring - 102

Passing Efficiency - 94

Sacks Allowed - 71

DEFENSE

Rushing - 105

Pass Efficiency - 118

Total Defense - 119

Scoring - 119

Pass Defense - 115

Sacks - T112

Tackles for Loss - 111

SPECIAL TEAMS

Net Punting - 108

Punt Returns - 111

Kickoff Returns - 114

Turnover Margin - 116

Can any of your see this drastically improving as it needs to? I'm hopeful, but not holding my breath. We've lost our top quarterback and our top two receivers. We've lost our top punter (who was not bad in gross punting average yards). We even lost two of our better special teams players.

I'm not a Dickey fan but he accomplished far more defensively with lesser rated players. We have made offensive improvements but our defense is far worse. We're not trying to equal Dickey; that's what got Dickey fired. Dodge needs to be better, hopefully much better, than his predecessor.

I hope that he is able to turn this program around dramatically because we need to and we need to this year. Except for Alabama, this is a very winnable schedule. Let's pray that the 2009 team is up to the task.