Something Doesn't Add Up

flyeater · January 14, 2009

Can't wait to see where he ends up, if the NCAA even lets him have a scholarship. Link.

Green P1 · January 14, 2009

This is the first thing I've read from Mr. Phillips that I've agreed with. Took the thoughts right out of my head.

Mean Green 93-98 · January 14, 2009

This contradicts what somebody else posted, that as long as the student or his family initiated contact with another school, it was permissible.

As far as whether he goes somewhere else, I wouldn't be worried. I'm sure some school out there could use a tough-as-nails QB with 2 years of 1-A experience.

NT80 · January 14, 2009

Bylaw 13.1.1.3, in summary, says such contact between a prospective transfer and an institution is prohibited, regardless of who initiates it first, when a release has not been obtained from the original insitution's athletic department.

Sounds like it's all about the $$, as usual, as to who will pay for Gio's schooling next year....Dad or new school? Mr. Vizza may have already messed it up by implying that contact has been made and interest has been shown with new schools before Gio's official release from UNT. Gio can transfer anywhere regardless of restrictions UNT puts on him; restrictions only affect being able to be on ship at the new school for next year (sit out year).

flyeater · January 14, 2009

This contradicts what somebody else posted, that as long as the student or his family initiated contact with another school, it was permissible.
As far as whether he goes somewhere else, I wouldn't be worried. I'm sure some school out there could use a tough-as-nails QB with 2 years of 1-A experience.

The rule explicitly states it doesn't matter who initiated the contact. Other than "we can't speak to you without a release," it can't go any further. He's got to get the release, meet the coaches, maybe go through a workout, get a physical, get his academic paperwork sorted out; there's a million things that have to happen first, starting with the release before anything. There's some smoke being blown here, definitely.

Got5onIt · January 14, 2009

Troy Dodge, er uh, Phillips, should reread the SAE article. Nowhere does it say the Vizza's are expecting Gio to obtain a new scholarship. How does he know if Vizza expects to pay for his first year at his new college? That could very well be the case.

UNTLifer · January 14, 2009

Hilarious.

Waiting on the response of a few "Vizza-bangers!" :lol:

flyeater · January 14, 2009

Troy Dodge, er uh, Phillips, should reread the SAE article. Nowhere does it say the Vizza's are expecting Gio to obtain a new scholarship. How does he know if Vizza expects to pay for his first year at his new college? That could very well be the case.

I think he mentions that option in the blog. Pretty easy to assume their first preference is a scholarship at a new school, right?

Got5onIt · January 14, 2009

I think he mentions that option in the blog. Pretty easy to assume their first preference is a scholarship at a new school, right?

I agree. Seems Mr.Vizza may be pulling a Dodge by screwing things up royally. :lol:

January 14, 2009

The rule states that neither the institution or prospective player may make contact until he has been released by his former college. Does that also apply to the parents (or other intermediary)? If so, the wording should be changed to be more specific as it would be just as unethical.

It's looking more and more like Mr. Vizza is one violator but the institutions involved are also in violation unless their response was "we can't talk to you until Gio has obtained his release." We'll still wind up with a black eye because we'll get unfavorable publicity regardless of who's at fault.

UNT90 · January 14, 2009

Where are those that screamed bias by Vito against the school. Why aren't they screaming about the bias by Phillips in this article against Vizza and for UNT. Could it be that they are only concerned about bias when the reporter doesn't agree with their point of view?

I don't think that either are biased, but this article is way more Pro UNT than it is Pro Vizza, yet no one screams. ummmm...

Green Dozer · January 14, 2009

The rule states that neither the institution or prospective player may make contact until he has been released by his former college. Does that also apply to the parents (or other intermediary)? If so, the wording should be changed to be more specific as it would be just as unethical.
It's looking more and more like Mr. Vizza is one violator but the institutions involved are also in violation unless their response was "we can't talk to you until Gio has obtained his release." We'll still wind up with a black eye because we'll get unfavorable publicity regardless of who's at fault.

I think Mr. Vizza is the one and only violator. Gio is good, but not so good that any institutions are going to take such chances. Sorry.

TheTastyGreek · January 14, 2009

13.1.1.3 Four-Year College Prospective Student-Athletes. An athletics staff member or other representative
of the institution’s athletics interests shall not make contact with the student-athlete of another NCAA or
NAIA four-year collegiate institution, directly or indirectly, without first obtaining the written permission of the
first institution’s athletics director (or an athletics administrator designated by the athletics director) to do so,
regardless of who makes the initial contact. If permission is not granted, the second institution shall not encourage
the transfer and the institution shall not provide athletically related financial assistance to the student-athlete
until the student-athlete has attended the second institution for one academic year. If permission is granted to
contact the student-athlete, all applicable NCAA recruiting rules apply.

This rule only applies to contact by the schools. If Vizza calls Rice, A&M, or Chico State and says: "I want to transfer", that's not a violation of the rules. They just can't ever contact HIM without written permission from Rick V. He can call them every day and twice on Sunday if he wants to.

Nowhere, NOWHERE in the recruiting section of the NCAA handbook does it say that a student athlete or their family can't approach schools. What it does say is that the schools can't contact THEM, even if the student athlete/family have already initiated contact. If Vizza calls Mack Brown, Brown can't call him back. And Brown can't give him a scholarship for one year after Vizza leaves without a release. And if no written permission is given, Brown can't arrange to have Vizza's tuition and expenses paid during the transfer year.

But Vizza or family can call Mack Brown every single day if they want to. Brown just can't encourage him to leave North Texas.

You can't encourage them and you can't financially support them for one year unless you have the written permission of the original school. But you can talk to them about anything else any time they call or visit you.

As an aside.... I really, REALLY don't have time for this sort of shit today. This will be my only post on the subject until Friday at least (my official long-awaited(?) return). I'll leave it to the lawyers on this board to parse things any more finely than I have here.

The very next rule in the book is a very, very interesting one given our current state of affairs:

13.1.1.3.1 Hearing Opportunity. If the institution decides to deny a student-athlete’s request to permit
any other institution to contact the student-athlete about transferring, or if the institution delays a response
to the request or indicates that permission will be granted at a later date, the institution shall inform
the student-athlete in writing that he or she, upon request, shall be provided a hearing conducted by an
institutional entity or committee outside of the athletics department (e.g., the office of student affairs; office
of the dean of students; or a committee composed of the faculty athletics representative, student-athletes
and nonathletics faculty/staff members). The institution shall have established reasonable procedures for
promptly hearing such a request.

If I were Rick V, I'd think long and hard about whether I want to play hardball with the Vizzas and have all my football dirty laundry aired in front of a non-athletics forum. Even if you win, you lose.

And if I were Todd Dodge, I'd think long and hard about the possibility that before the end of 2009, I might be out of a job and MY son might want to transfer to another school. When Riley has 3 years left to play 3, is he going to want to do it under a different coach, if necessary? And how will he feel doing it at an FCS school due to spite from a jilted North Texas?

GoMeanGreen1999 · January 14, 2009

And if I were Todd Dodge, I'd think long and hard about the possibility that before the end of 2009, I might be out of a job and MY son might want to transfer to another school. When Riley has 3 years left to play 3, is he going to want to do it under a different coach, if necessary? And how will he feel doing it at an FCS school due to spite from a jilted North Texas?

Good point. But that probably hasn't crossed his mind since he will be here all 5 years. After all, nothing is really wrong with things according to him.

Baby Arm! · January 14, 2009

Let me start by saying I like Vizza. I think he's tough as nails and will miss him as he moves on. BUT.... something is up, The kid says at the end of the season he's coming back. He goes home over the holiday and then decides to transfer???

This isn't the first time the Vizza family has tranferred looking for greener football pastures. Giovanni started his high school career at Central Catholic, but transferred to Alamo Heights where he led them to a state championship. Now I don't have any idea if he switched schools for football,but it does seem to indicate a pattern

gangrene · January 14, 2009

Now I don't have any idea if he switched schools for football,but it does seem to indicate a pattern

I agree and I would venture to guess that he wasn't the initiator of said pattern. Do a search on "millennials" or "generation Y" and you'll get a sense of what we're dealing with here. I've personally had to deal with some of the characteristics of this generation and I've heard of many instances in which mommy or daddy will call a college professor to dispute a grade on their son/daughter's behalf or even call an employer to dispute an annual review or demand rationale as to why their "baby" didn't get a promotion or raise.

keith · January 14, 2009

Where are those that screamed bias by Vito against the school. Why aren't they screaming about the bias by Phillips in this article against Vizza and for UNT. Could it be that they are only concerned about bias when the reporter doesn't agree with their point of view?
I don't think that either are biased, but this article is way more Pro UNT than it is Pro Vizza, yet no one screams. ummmm...

Dude, this isn't an ethics in journalism message board. This is a University of North Texas Mean Green FAN board. We are *all* biased here.

Keith

nautique · January 14, 2009

Let me start by saying I like Vizza. I think he's tough as nails and will miss him as he moves on. BUT.... something is up, The kid says at the end of the season he's coming back. He goes home over the holiday and then decides to transfer???
This isn't the first time the Vizza family has tranferred looking for greener football pastures. Giovanni started his high school career at Central Catholic, but transferred to Alamo Heights where he led them to a state championship. Now I don't have any idea if he switched schools for football,but it does seem to indicate a pattern

He might be smarter than we think. He transfers from one high school to another and takes a program that never won a state championship and leads them to the Title in a program that is considered soft and rich.

He calculates the program and if it doesn't fit he looks at the best options. No different than anyone else looking for the best job opportunities.

By transferring, he only became the Player of the Year in 4A football. Seems to me he has goals of winning and winning now.

Starting four new WR's with all the drama this program has gone thru might make many leave, and it has. He just happens to be higher profile. If he was a WR or Db, no one would have given a crap.

LongJim · January 14, 2009

TG:

The rule looks a bit ambiguous, but I read it as Vizza can call Mack all day, and Mack's office has to tell him "We can't talk to you without a release." If he continues to call and Mack keeps answering, Mack has a problem. That's how I read it.

There can be no "contact", regardless of who initiates the contact--without a release.

Again, maybe I'm reading it wrong?

Rudy · January 14, 2009

Just for everyone's information, I have turned all these drama filled posts into the major networks. I think we are getting our own soap opera.

flyeater · January 14, 2009

You can't encourage them and you can't financially support them for one year unless you have the written permission of the original school. But you can talk to them about anything else any time they call or visit you.

You just contradicted yourself. That's called "contact" and the rule says it's prohibited without the release. You can't go out to lunch with the coach or hang at his house and pretend to talk about the Hamas-Israel war.

Baby Arm! · January 15, 2009

He might be smarter than we think. He transfers from one high school to another and takes a program that never won a state championship and leads them to the Title in a program that is considered soft and rich.
He calculates the program and if it doesn't fit he looks at the best options. No different than anyone else looking for the best job opportunities.
By transferring, he only became the Player of the Year in 4A football. Seems to me he has goals of winning and winning now.
Starting four new WR's with all the drama this program has gone thru might make many leave, and it has. He just happens to be higher profile. If he was a WR or Db, no one would have given a crap.

Granted, everyone has a right to go where they think they can maximize their opportunities.

Vizza leaves one high school team for another,

Vizza backs out of committment to Nevada to go to UNT,

Vizza leaves UNT to go to.....????

Whatever his reasons it just seems like the Vizza(or Dad) has a pattern of this kind of thing, that's all I'm saying.