Quick Question

emmitt01 · January 12, 2009

Will all of you who were quick to say losing Vizza was "no big deal" because he's a "quitter" or "really wasn't that good" be willing to post a mea culpa when he goes elsewhere and succeeds with his lack of talent...all the while we'll be just as horrible? Well, will you?

And one other thing that I think is being misunderstood, as ebone put it succintly:

Another thing I am seeing is the mindset that this is okay because Vizza could see we aren't going anywhere and wanted to be in a better situation. Really? If you feel that then why do you support NT football? Why do we even have a football program? Things are down, there is no disputing that. But if you really think that it is okay for a kid to bail because everything isn't hunky dory then that is something I just don't understand.

Nobody is saying that Vizza left because he could see that we weren't going to win. What is being said by those who I think can see things a bit more clearly is this...Giovanni left because he could see that the product, from top to bottom, was not going to improve and winning was going to be impossible because of it. Look at it this way. It's like Vizza was asked to be the head chef in a 5* restaurant where the manager insisted on getting the ingredients from McDonalds' food supplier because he had sold so many big macs when he managed a McDonald's. The manager is clearly not ready for the big restaurant business but insists that "it's not a fine dining plan, it's not a fast food plan, it's a food plan." If that chef walked out and went to work for another restaurant would you say he just didn't have it in him to serve food and he's a quitter? I sure as hell wouldn't. So, no, it's not the losing that made Gio walk. It's the overall environment that is not (and will not be) conducive to winning.

TIgreen01 · January 12, 2009

Will all of you who were quick to say losing Vizza was "no big deal" because he's a "quitter" or "really wasn't that good" be willing to post a mea culpa when he goes elsewhere and succeeds with his lack of talent...all the while we'll be just as horrible? Well, will you?
And one other thing that I think is being misunderstood, as ebone put it succintly:
Nobody is saying that Vizza left because he could see that we weren't going to win. What is being said by those who I think can see things a bit more clearly is this...Giovanni left because he could see that the product, from top to bottom, was not going to improve and winning was going to be impossible because of it. Look at it this way. It's like Vizza was asked to be the head chef in a 5* restaurant where the manager insisted on getting the ingredients from McDonalds' food supplier because he had sold so many big macs when he managed a McDonald's. The manager is clearly not ready for the big restaurant business but insists that "it's not a fine dining plan, it's not a fast food plan, it's a food plan." If that chef walked out and went to work for another restaurant would you say he just didn't have it in him to serve food and he's a quitter? I sure as hell wouldn't. So, no, it's not the losing that made Gio walk. It's the overall environment that is not (and will not be) conducive to winning.

Follow up question: Did the chef fail a drug test along the way that might have changed his point of view?

emmitt01 · January 12, 2009

Follow up question: Did the chef fail a drug test along the way that might have changed his point of view?

Said chef may have failed a drug test, none of us know for sure. But is obviously didn't get the chef taken out of the kitchen directly afterward or even make him a backup chef. And I'm sure if you looked at any of the restaurants in towns like say Austin, College Station, Lubbock, Norman, etc. you'd find chefs who use a little dope from time to time...so really a moot point.

Censored by Laurie · January 12, 2009

Follow up question: Did the chef fail a drug test along the way that might have changed his point of view?

You've CLEARLY never worked in the food industry.

untjim1995 · January 12, 2009

Will all of you who were quick to say losing Vizza was "no big deal" because he's a "quitter" or "really wasn't that good" be willing to post a mea culpa when he goes elsewhere and succeeds with his lack of talent...all the while we'll be just as horrible? Well, will you?
And one other thing that I think is being misunderstood, as ebone put it succintly:
Nobody is saying that Vizza left because he could see that we weren't going to win. What is being said by those who I think can see things a bit more clearly is this...Giovanni left because he could see that the product, from top to bottom, was not going to improve and winning was going to be impossible because of it. Look at it this way. It's like Vizza was asked to be the head chef in a 5* restaurant where the manager insisted on getting the ingredients from McDonalds' food supplier because he had sold so many big macs when he managed a McDonald's. The manager is clearly not ready for the big restaurant business but insists that "it's not a fine dining plan, it's not a fast food plan, it's a food plan." If that chef walked out and went to work for another restaurant would you say he just didn't have it in him to serve food and he's a quitter? I sure as hell wouldn't. So, no, it's not the losing that made Gio walk. It's the overall environment that is not (and will not be) conducive to winning.

Emmitt,

I think we all respect your opinion, so I am curious to ask these questions. What steps do you think we need to take today to get this program going in the right direction? Would you ever see a point where the university would close things down instead of trying to build this thing up?

UNTLifer · January 12, 2009

Will all of you who were quick to say losing Vizza was "no big deal" because he's a "quitter" or "really wasn't that good" be willing to post a mea culpa when he goes elsewhere and succeeds with his lack of talent...all the while we'll be just as horrible? Well, will you?
And one other thing that I think is being misunderstood, as ebone put it succintly:
Nobody is saying that Vizza left because he could see that we weren't going to win. What is being said by those who I think can see things a bit more clearly is this...Giovanni left because he could see that the product, from top to bottom, was not going to improve and winning was going to be impossible because of it. Look at it this way. It's like Vizza was asked to be the head chef in a 5* restaurant where the manager insisted on getting the ingredients from McDonalds' food supplier because he had sold so many big macs when he managed a McDonald's. The manager is clearly not ready for the big restaurant business but insists that "it's not a fine dining plan, it's not a fast food plan, it's a food plan." If that chef walked out and went to work for another restaurant would you say he just didn't have it in him to serve food and he's a quitter? I sure as hell wouldn't. So, no, it's not the losing that made Gio walk. It's the overall environment that is not (and will not be) conducive to winning.

As with any of these posts, this is all speculation. Nobody knows why he left, but we can all speculate.

I find it funny that the opinion of so many people not even involved in coaching is that the coaching staff is not running the program correctly. It would be like me complaining about how you perform your duties as a police officer. Sure, I could share my opinion, but I really have no idea what it is like to be a police officer or what is involved in the day to day operations of a police department or the behind the scenes issues that the leader of the police department has to deal with or what a new leader of the department has to change or clean up upon his/her arrival.

I know a few posters are close to some of the parents of players and some of these parents aren't happy, but that is typical in every program, and with any story there are always two sides.

Call me a Dodgebanger or whatever, but I choose to think he knows what is going on and how to mold this program into a successful one. So you think Vizza wasn't given the tools to succeed. That's fine. You can choose to side with the feelings of a 19 year old. I think he was a good hire, a hire supported by Mitch Maher, Troy Redwine and some other players that played under him in the past, and many of the coaches he competed against at the high school level.

Censored by Laurie · January 12, 2009

I choose to think he knows what is going on and how to mold this program into a successful one.

Based upon what?

If my posts aren't being ignored by you yet...can you take this question from me seriously and answer it in kind

aztecskin · January 12, 2009

HAHAHA! I love the McDonalds vs Fine Dining comparison.

That is funny.

Mean Green 93-98 · January 12, 2009

Will all of you who were quick to say losing Vizza was "no big deal" because (1) he's a "quitter" or (2) "really wasn't that good" be willing to post a mea culpa when he goes elsewhere and succeeds with his lack of talent...all the while we'll be just as horrible? Well, will you?

I think those two statements somewhat contradict each other. He was good, and he was a leader--this is why his teammates depended on him. But by leaving he has let his teammates down. That is a quitter.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · January 12, 2009

That's not true. Some of us do know why he left because we've had discussions with his parents. And, unfortunately for Dodgebangers, the main problem was the coaching staff and their inability to put a competitive team on the field. In the opinion of many in the locker room, this ship isn't sailing in the direction they were told it would when Captain Dodge sat in their living rooms during the recruiting process.

Anything else that we've been told is probably best kept under wraps. But, rest assured, a big part of this decision was based upon coaching. I'll just leave it at this - there is a communication problem in the locker room, among the players, coaches, and among the players and coaches.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · January 12, 2009

You've CLEARLY never worked in the food industry.

Exactly!

LongJim · January 12, 2009

There really are only a couple of reasons this kind of thing happens in a program. Either the kid is a knucklehead, the program is run by knuckleheads, or the kid wants playing time he's not getting.

Two of those don't apply in this situation.

meanrob · January 12, 2009

If Vizza goes elsewhere and succeeds, good for him. I just don't see that happening at the I-A level.

My question to you and others is.....what did Vizza do to make you think he is a good quarterback or will be successful elsewhere?

If you go by yards, he ranked second in the Sun Belt. If you go by any other QB stat he was near the bottom.

I think it's been so long since we had a legitimate QB and a passing game that we flipped out over a QB that threw over 200 yards a game. I just think we can do better.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · January 12, 2009

There really are only a couple of reasons this kind of thing happens in a program. Either the kid is a knucklehead, the program is run by knuckleheads, or the kid wants playing time he's not getting.
Two of those don't apply in this situation.

Or, maybe two do apply and one does not. We are talking about kids here, along with a coaching staff unaccustomed to running a college program.

Although, I gotta tell ya, if we had more "knuckleheads" like Vizza on the team, we wouldn't have been only 1-11 last year. We'd have been close to a winning seasons despite the "knuckleheads" running the program.

LongJim · January 12, 2009

Although, I gotta tell ya, if we had more "knuckleheads" like Vizza on the team, we wouldn't have been only 1-11 last year.

Totally agree. Vizza leaving is a big loss for the program. Huge.

aztecskin · January 12, 2009

If you are Vizza you leave because you have some talent and the program is going nowhere. On top of that you have Riley (the Chosen One) ready to take your spot whether you deserve a demotion or not.

Eh. It is a no win situation, I think.

meangreenbob · January 12, 2009

If Vizza goes elsewhere and succeeds, good for him. I just don't see that happening at the I-A level.
My question to you and others is.....what did Vizza do to make you think he is a good quarterback or will be successful elsewhere?
If you go by yards, he ranked second in the Sun Belt. If you go by any other QB stat he was near the bottom.
I think it's been so long since we had a legitimate QB and a passing game that we flipped out over a QB that threw over 200 yards a game. I just think we can do better.

I don't want to start a fight or anything but I think Scott Hall was a much better QB than Vizza. Please understand that is only my opinion. I also think, again only my opinion, that Vizza was and is overrated. I wish him well and hope he finds success wherever he goes but as I said earlier I'm not worried or concerned that he won't be here next year.

TIgreen01 · January 12, 2009

That's not true. Some of us do know why he left because we've had discussions with his parents. And, unfortunately for Dodgebangers, the main problem was the coaching staff and their inability to put a competitive team on the field. In the opinion of many in the locker room, this ship isn't sailing in the direction they were told it would when Captain Dodge sat in their living rooms during the recruiting process.
Anything else that we've been told is probably best kept under wraps. But, rest assured, a big part of this decision was based upon coaching. I'll just leave it at this - there is a communication problem in the locker room, among the players, coaches, and among the players and coaches.

I don't know....seems that if the coaching staff was the main reason for his leaving, then that leaves open the possibility that the REASON the coaching staff was a problem with this specific kid was the handling of the previously stated situation.....you know, the one where I never worked in the food industry to understand?? A player could sit there and say all day long that they don't believe the coaching staff can win games and be somewhat credible.....where the gray area comes in is that THIS player has reason to have a completely different beef against the coaching staff that has nothing to do with the product out on the field. All this and we have yet to even consider the Riley Dodge factor....

You all could be right. Our coaching staff could be complete and total morons.....the problem is that the ones doing a lot of the Dodge bashing also happen to be the ones who have relationships with the disgruntled players/parents. Kind of hard to sort that out for those of us more on the outside. That, and trying to remain positive, I WANT all the negative talk to be incorrect....you know, as a fan who'd like to hold on to some hope for the future.

January 12, 2009

When does the bleeding stop? As pointed out, Vizza makes the ninth player from Dodge's first class to leave the team. If that doesn't disturb you, it sure does me. In addition, two of that class have yet to play in a game (Davis, Tomlinson) and one (Lewis) played the first year and hasn't been seen since. That leaves eight of his original that are still active and have contributed to some degree.

There is blame to be shared but most of it has to fall on Dodge's shoulders. He has been inflexible in a number of areas. He did not assemble a college-experienced staff. He would not modify his offensive system to take advantage of his strengths and protect his quarterback. He would not retain any coaches from the previous regime, giving the appearance of abandoning the inherited players. He has alienated players and the press. He has produced the worst back-to-back years in North Texas' history, in spite of recruiting some pretty highly-rated talent. He has alienated the fans through closed practices and being tight-lipped..

The players are not blameless, especially in light of the drug-testing. Outwardly, the have given the appearance of forming cliques. They often appeared to be mistake-prone and lethargic. There seemed to be little enthsiasm or esprit de corps. They often acted like a bunch of individuals rather than a team. They lacked leadership.

Rick Villareal certainly has to share much of this blame. Rick has accomplished a lot under his directorship, but this hiring is on his shoulders. I do not understand giving an unproven coach a five year contract. No doubt he assumed that Dodge would be successful and gone in a hurry but that wasn't/won't be the case. Does he have an exit plan?

I'm hurt and disappointed now. Maybe I'll feel differently by next season but I doubt it. Unless we have a .500 winning percentage or better and, if not, nothing is done, then I'm ready to pack it in or at best cut way back. Dodge is undoing the two things that I appreciated....he recruited well (at least on paper) and brought the stadium issue to a head. But, with player defections, a losing record and losing fans (and potential donors), it may take a while to right this ship.

TIgreen01 · January 12, 2009

When does the bleeding stop? As pointed out, Vizza makes the ninth player from Dodge's first class to leave the team. If that doesn't disturb you, it sure does me. In addition, two of that class have yet to play in a game (Davis, Tomlinson) and one (Lewis) played the first year and hasn't been seen since. That leaves eight of his original that are still active and have contributed to some degree.
There is blame to be shared but most of it has to fall on Dodge's shoulders. He has been inflexible in a number of areas. He did not assemble a college-experienced staff. He would not modify his offensive system to take advantage of his strengths and protect his quarterback. He would not retain any coaches from the previous regime, giving the appearance of abandoning the inherited players. He has alienated players and the press. He has produced the worst back-to-back years in North Texas' history, in spite of recruiting some pretty highly-rated talent. He has alienated the fans through closed practices and being tight-lipped..
The players are not blameless, especially in light of the drug-testing. Outwardly, the have given the appearance of forming cliques. They often appeared to be mistake-prone and lethargic. There seemed to be little enthsiasm or esprit de corps. They often acted like a bunch of individuals rather than a team. They lacked leadership.
Rick Villareal certainly has to share much of this blame. Rick has accomplished a lot under his directorship, but this hiring is on his shoulders. I do not understand giving an unproven coach a five year contract. No doubt he assumed that Dodge would be successful and gone in a hurry but that wasn't/won't be the case. Does he have an exit plan?
I'm hurt and disappointed now. Maybe I'll feel differently by next season but I doubt it. Unless we have a .500 winning percentage or better and, if not, nothing is done, then I'm ready to pack it in or at best cut way back. Dodge is undoing the two things that I appreciated....he recruited well (at least on paper) and brought the stadium issue to a head. But, with player defections, a losing record and losing fans (and potential donors), it may take a while to right this ship.

Well, damn. There went my last ounce of hope. I've been on gmg before it was gmg.....to hear GEO this down is certainly alarming. Now if OT and Harry quickly follow suit.....????