The Amazing Big 12

[Quoner]

Here's some fun with numbers:

Big 12 North: 3-0

Big 12 South: 1-3

With all the "amazing" offenses, only three teams (OSU, TT, and KU) scored more than 30. The only team to break 40 was Kansas and they are the only high scoring team that won.

Texas and Oklahoma combined do not reach even one of their top 5 scoring averages with only 38 points.

The Big 12 went:

3-0 against the Big 10

0-2 against the SEC

1-0 against the ACC

0-1 against the PAC-10

I don't think the SEC is a super conference either and both have their flaws, but I would gladly notch my testicle with a hole punch to kill the Big 12 is the best conference ever talk for another year.

[UNTflyer]

I don't think the SEC is a super conference either...

After 3 straight National Championships?

[Quoner]

After 3 straight National Championships?

This year only - needed to preface that and forgot.

[emmitt01]

After 3 straight National Championships?

Shhhhhhh...don't tell the Big XII fans.

[UNT_playmaker]

Take baylor out immediately and put the University of North Texas in their place. Make things interesting.

[aprice]

Nobody was "pwn3d"... It was a great game and it really could have gone either way with one or two plays going differently. You're sitting here contesting the big 12 offensive abilities, yet I bet you are also one of those people who claim that the big 12 has no defense as well. OU held florida to 24, and UT held OSU to 21. Those are damn good numbers vs damn good teams. The Big 12 is still right up there with the SEC. Arguing which conference is better is nonsense. There are just too many good teams in each conference to call one better than the other. I don't care who won the "BCS" National Champtionship, because i guarantee you if there was a legit system (playoffs) for determining a true champion it would NOT be the SEC 3 straight years.

[russell360]

Teddy Roosevelt had a famous quotation paraphrase) about how it is ...not the critic that counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles...the credit belongs to the man actually in the area....

Being critizied for losing the national championship by fans the 114 ranked team is kinda funny...

[untgeorge]

After 3 straight National Championships?

And 5 in eleven years?

[emmitt01]

and UT held OSU to 21

How could anyone have forgotten the mighty Buckeyes?

[Green Mean]

Take baylor out immediately and put the University of North Texas in their place. Make things interesting.

That move would make the Big 12 considerably worse as an overall conference.

[DallasGreen]

That move would make the Big 12 considerably worse as an overall conference.

I certainly would not want to see NT play Baylor in the next two years with their QB. NT in the Big 12 is a ridiculous pipe dream initiated for hype. We are much closer to competing in the SLC at all athletic levels.

[Quoner]

Nobody was "pwn3d"... It was a great game and it really could have gone either way with one or two plays going differently. You're sitting here contesting the big 12 offensive abilities, yet I bet you are also one of those people who claim that the big 12 has no defense as well. OU held florida to 24, and UT held OSU to 21. Those are damn good numbers vs damn good teams. The Big 12 is still right up there with the SEC. Arguing which conference is better is nonsense. There are just too many good teams in each conference to call one better than the other. I don't care who won the "BCS" National Champtionship, because i guarantee you if there was a legit system (playoffs) for determining a true champion it would NOT be the SEC 3 straight years.

If I wanted to claim the Big 12 had no defensive abilities, I probably would have just said that, wouldn't I? I went into bowl season thinking that the only teams worth caring about in each conference were the top 2-3 and wanted to see how those record setting offenses shoved down our throats did against other top 10 teams. I was told by numerous folks that the numbers would continue and the teams would assert dominance. I spent weeks listening to how Texas and OU were going to win by double digits - especially from the t-shirt fans (the people who actually go to these schools and talk about things not on a internet forum were much more realistic about things.)

Since you bring up UT's amazing defensive performance against OSU, Penn State and USC combined to hold them to 9 points, so I wouldn't hurt yourself banging the drum too hard. I also think Texas and Oklahoma should be able to hold someone under 24 with all of their talent given over a month to prepare, but maybe I am crazy. My Texas alum wife agreed, but she's just a woman with a brain the third the size of mine. It's science.

When Ole Miss lays an ass whipping that could have been much worse on Tech, Texas barely wins, OSU loses by double digits to Oregon and Florida holds the 60+ record-setting offense to 14, I feel that I can say that the Big 12 underperformed based on what everyone said about it. It was a year of hot air that gave way to the time-honored principles of running the ball and playing good defense, and that made me happy.

Russell360, I know you love to pop in and cheerlead for Tech's honor whenever they are remotely questioned and I appreciate you getting mad at anyone from ol' NT questioning their greatness. I'll do my best to raise my Tech discussion credentials (maybe I'll buy a Graham Harrell jersey and move to Lubbock), but until then, as Martin Luther famously said during the Reformation, "facts is facts, mofos!"

[LongJim]

Since you bring up UT's amazing defensive performance against OSU, Penn State and USC combined to hold them to 9 points, so I wouldn't hurt yourself banging the drum too hard. I also think Texas and Oklahoma should be able to hold someone under 24 with all of their talent given over a month to prepare, but maybe I am crazy.

I thought the Bucks would score ~21. I was only mildly surprised at the outcome of the Fiesta for a few reasons:

Texas essentially had no running game all year, and when they needed to, they generally couldn't do it with some notable exceptions. I felt they would struggle against tOSU.

Tressel, for his other flaws, is a very very good coach, and I felt he would have their defense prepared for McCoy. He did until Davis' hurry up wore out the Bucks, and McCoy buckled down in the stretch. Say what you will about tOSU and their team, but their defense is good. Their offense will sputter until Pryor grows a sack and gets some more experience. I thought he had a chance to take that game over, but he pussed out a couple of times. Chalk that up to being a true freshman on the big stage.

Buckeyes: "When you have 2 quarterbacks, you have no quarterback."

I felt that Texas left ~10 points on the field with some boneheaded decisions, otherwise that win was a bit less hectic, but whatever.

When Ole Miss lays an ass whipping that could have been much worse on Tech,

Pressure on the QB, ball control, ability to run the ball. Game over for Tech. Miss put on a clinic on how to beat the spread.

OSU loses by double digits to Oregon

OSU will only reside in the 'dangerous but erratic' file until Gundy is gone.

It was a year of hot air that gave way to the time-honored principles of running the ball and playing good defense, and that made me happy.

Couldn't agree more. I thought that there was a lot of hyperbole in the media for the Big 12 offenses. The QB play was outstanding this year for sure, but there was (comparatively) little in the way of running game for any team this season.

Edited January 9, 2009 by LongJim

[oldguystudent]

Here's how I see the big conferences. One of two things is happening across college football:

1) Defense is dead. Completely and utterly dead.

or

2) In spite of the fact that when it comes down to it, a great defense beats a great offense, programs prefer to build up offenses because it's like getting a fake boob job that gives a sexier appearance.

[TheColonyEagle]

Take baylor out immediately and put the University of North Texas in their place. Make things interesting.

Baylor would beat us by 6 touchdowns

[forevereagle]

Baylor would beat us by 6 touchdowns

Just like everybody else.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

Here's how I see the big conferences. One of two things is happening across college football:

1) Defense is dead. Completely and utterly dead.or

2) In spite of the fact that when it comes down to it, a great defense beats a great offense, programs prefer to build up offenses because it's like getting a fake boob job that gives a sexier appearance.

-- If that is the case (defense is dead) then North Texas is an outstanding trend setter...

[emmitt01]

Baylor would beat us by 6 touchdowns

Their starters must not be playing the fourth quarter then.

[MeanMag]

Here's how I see the big conferences. One of two things is happening across college football:

1) Defense is dead. Completely and utterly dead.

or

2) In spite of the fact that when it comes down to it, a great defense beats a great offense, programs prefer to build up offenses because it's like getting a fake boob job that gives a sexier appearance.

We fans who have been here since the early 2000s should know that this is the case. The reason we won the conf. titles and could actually hang with big boys was because of the defense. Since then, Todd Dodge has proven that a quick scoring spread offense is nothing without a ball controlling running game and defense. This proves the theory that mixing it up is best.

By the way...

Did anyone see OUs problem against Florida? There are some striking similarities between what happened in the National Championship Game with their offense and ours. They had no problem moving the ball between the 20s, but as soon as it was short yardage they lined up in shotgun to run and were stuffed multiple times. If you were to proportionally weaken their players and put green uniforms on them I would have mistaken their offense for ours - complete with looking at the sidelines and stupid penalties.

[GoMeanGreen1999]

complete with looking at the sidelines

So.....incredibly.....tired......of.....this.....trend.

[oldguystudent]

Did anyone see OUs problem against Florida? There are some striking similarities between what happened in the National Championship Game with their offense and ours. They had no problem moving the ball between the 20s, but as soon as it was short yardage they lined up in shotgun to run and were stuffed multiple times. If you were to proportionally weaken their players and put green uniforms on them I would have mistaken their offense for ours - complete with looking at the sidelines and stupid penalties.

I saw, I noticed, and I completely agree with your assessment. I consider it an indictment of the lack of defense in the Big XII that OU was able to score over 60 points a game pulling that crap.

Edited January 10, 2009 by oldguystudent

[russell360]

If I wanted to claim the Big 12 had no defensive abilities, I probably would have just said that, wouldn't I? I went into bowl season thinking that the only teams worth caring about in each conference were the top 2-3 and wanted to see how those record setting offenses shoved down our throats did against other top 10 teams. I was told by numerous folks that the numbers would continue and the teams would assert dominance. I spent weeks listening to how Texas and OU were going to win by double digits - especially from the t-shirt fans (the people who actually go to these schools and talk about things not on a internet forum were much more realistic about things.)

Since you bring up UT's amazing defensive performance against OSU, Penn State and USC combined to hold them to 9 points, so I wouldn't hurt yourself banging the drum too hard. I also think Texas and Oklahoma should be able to hold someone under 24 with all of their talent given over a month to prepare, but maybe I am crazy. My Texas alum wife agreed, but she's just a woman with a brain the third the size of mine. It's science.

When Ole Miss lays an ass whipping that could have been much worse on Tech, Texas barely wins, OSU loses by double digits to Oregon and Florida holds the 60+ record-setting offense to 14, I feel that I can say that the Big 12 underperformed based on what everyone said about it. It was a year of hot air that gave way to the time-honored principles of running the ball and playing good defense, and that made me happy.

Russell360, I know you love to pop in and cheerlead for Tech's honor whenever they are remotely questioned and I appreciate you getting mad at anyone from ol' NT questioning their greatness. I'll do my best to raise my Tech discussion credentials (maybe I'll buy a Graham Harrell jersey and move to Lubbock), but until then, as Martin Luther famously said during the Reformation, "facts is facts, mofos!"

Actually I was "defending" OU...

I don't see how OU was owned or the B12 is a pretender. OU failed to win the national campionship (and Tech lost to the only team that beat the national champions)... Not great maybe, but not "amazing" either ( I do agree that Tech raised their skirt against Miss.!).

The B12 is a close 2nd to the SEC in Sagarin ratings, hardly a weak sister (the Sun Belt is #13 behind the AA Colonial conference...).

By the way, in the "facts is facts mofo" category the Sun Belt's only bowl win was over the 8-4 Chippewas of Central Michigan(Wow...). Also, I saw where NT was ranked #171 by Sagarin...

Keep the tortilla flying!

[TheColonyEagle]

Their starters must not be playing the fourth quarter then.

I've got to get rid of my green tinted glasses...

[Quoner]

Actually I was "defending" OU...

I don't see how OU was owned or the B12 is a pretender. OU failed to win the national campionship (and Tech lost to the only team that beat the national champions)... Not great maybe, but not "amazing" either ( I do agree that Tech raised their skirt against Miss.!).

The B12 is a close 2nd to the SEC in Sagarin ratings, hardly a weak sister (the Sun Belt is #13 behind the AA Colonial conference...).

By the way, in the "facts is facts mofo" category the Sun Belt's only bowl win was over the 8-4 Chippewas of Central Michigan(Wow...). Also, I saw where NT was ranked #171 by Sagarin...

Keep the tortilla flying!

I like your continuing strawman - nothing supports the Big 12 like identifying that UNT and the Sun Belt suck at football. If a guy at Taco Bell calls your mother a name, do you tell him how crappy you think the cheesy gordita crunch is?

Big 12 fans spent a season telling everyone that their offenses were the future of college football and no other conference can match it and they were pushed around by 3 teams they claimed to be better than and one team pulled out a close win win they were double digit favorites. All I did was say that bowl season didn't quite work out for them.

[russell360]

I like your continuing strawman - nothing supports the Big 12 like identifying that UNT and the Sun Belt suck at football. If a guy at Taco Bell calls your mother a name, do you tell him how crappy you think the cheesy gordita crunch is?

Big 12 fans spent a season telling everyone that their offenses were the future of college football and no other conference can match it and they were pushed around by 3 teams they claimed to be better than and one team pulled out a close win win they were double digit favorites. All I did was say that bowl season didn't quite work out for them.

B12 is one of the great conferences. Just because it didn't dominate like some blow-hards predicted doesn't mean that it failed...

By your logic NT is screwed; NT has hired a coach that bought into the B12 offensive philosophy but he lacks the player and the coaching experience to pull it off...