Let's Open Up A Little Can Of Worms, Shall We?

Quoner · January 7, 2009

Alright guys, I think it is pretty safe to say that becoming a National Brand is a few decades away. I think however, that we can become regionally known. That is very possible. I have argued this before here and on the ol' blog.
We need a huge financial investment and/or a gimmick.
We are in the midst of a gimmick attempt (Dodge-y) now we are hoping for a financial boost. That will be hard to come by given a) our record and the economy.
It is very possible to own this [slang for excrement] conference. I am talking domination. Once we accomplish that baby-step, we can start seriously talking about graduating to a respectable conference.
Hell, I would love to be snubbed for a national title for a few years, like Boise St and Utah have.
Of course, after a few years of that, then I would be talking about joining the Big 12 or the Big Ten (11) ... but that is for the future.

Nice. just wondering, who do you think deserves the national championship this year?

aztecskin · January 7, 2009

Deserves? I don't know if I would say that.

I know I said 'snubbed' and in doing so implied deservedness, but that was mostly for any Utah-leaning fans here.

Really though, I see it this way:

The Big 12 conference championship should be determined internally. They should drop the BCS ingredient. Determine the division champ by 1) record, 2) head to head, 3) common opponents 4) margin of victory.

I don't really like number 4 though. Because there is always mitigating factors such as weather, injuries, location etc, maybe you go to another tie breaker like home record vs common opponents or away record vs c.o.

I also like a point value for home wins vs away wins vs neutral site wins. It is necessary to add in the quirks of college football.

I think polls should only be used to determine the seedings between the conference champions who will battle it out in a playoff to determine the national champ.

You could also appease the bigger conferences who would have really good teams left out by adding a wild card team.

This would shut up the current non-BCS guys because they would at least have a shot at winning the title. That is all any one can ask for.

I said this before in the basketball boards: UNT basketball has a legit shot every year to win the whole (insert favorite big food item here). UNT football does not.

UNT90 · January 7, 2009

The fact that this topic is being brought up illustrates the culture of UNT football, the administration, and even their most die-hard fan base. Don't perform to expectation? Well, just dumb those expectations down. Don't demand any accountability for why the original expectations weren't met, just re-adjust the expectation level lower, and lower, and lower. There is a bright future for this athletic program, IF the above mentioned groups recognize it and work toward it.

The most depressing part of this thread is that it was posted by a relatively new fan of UNT sports. I expect it from those who have suffered years of abuse at the hands of their parent(Uh...University), but frankly I expected a more optimistic outlook from old guy.

Edited January 7, 2009 by UNT90

DeepGreen · January 7, 2009

The fact that this topic is being brought up illustrates the culture of UNT football, the administration, and even their most die-hard fan base. Don't perform to expectation? Well, just dumb those expectations down. Don't demand any accountability for why the original expectations weren't met, just re-adjust the expectation level lower, and lower, and lower.

But, but....isn't that the way education has evolved? Dumbing down of the masses.

oldguystudent · January 8, 2009

but frankly I expected a more optimistic outlook from old guy.

It would be easy to retort that I've been beaten down by the constant bickering and pessimism of gmg.com, but that isn't the case. Don't worry about me. You'll see me at the games come hell or high water.

I was posing the question more from trying to take a step back and look at what the possibilities and objectives of the program are. As a guy who comes from a school with no football at all, if UNT had been a 1AA program when I showed up, I would have been quite happy. I do think that the status quo is unacceptable, and am interested in where this program is really going and what it really wants to be. If we're not going to be a national brand, and we're going to be in a conference that has less exposure than some 1AA programs while barely surviving on the pity money of body bag away games, I'm failing to understand the true benefits of FBS status.

If you look at the list of teams in my dream conference for UNT, you should be able to see that I'd like to see us as a regional interest in lieu of the impossibility of becoming a national one. If that can't happen, then the school needs to acknowledge its limited means and play within them.

So I suppose what I'm trying to look at isn't really something that can be classified into optimism/pessimism, but rather taking a look at the future of financial means and commitment in the long run. If it can be attained, then I say full speed ahead. If not, then acknowledge it and stop wallowing.

I otherwise apologize if my aura of puppy dogs and unicorns fails to meet gmg nation initiation standards.

ETA -- The bottom line for me is that I'm here for a degree and a job. Everything else is gravy, and I appreciate having it. That doesn't require meeting any person's expectations.

Edited January 8, 2009 by oldguystudent

Censored by Laurie · January 8, 2009

Deserves? I don't know if I would say that.
I know I said 'snubbed' and in doing so implied deservedness, but that was mostly for any Utah-leaning fans here.
Really though, I see it this way:
The Big 12 conference championship should be determined internally. They should drop the BCS ingredient. Determine the division champ by 1) record, 2) head to head, 3) common opponents 4) margin of victory.
I don't really like number 4 though. Because there is always mitigating factors such as weather, injuries, location etc, maybe you go to another tie breaker like home record vs common opponents or away record vs c.o.
I also like a point value for home wins vs away wins vs neutral site wins. It is necessary to add in the quirks of college football.
I think polls should only be used to determine the seedings between the conference champions who will battle it out in a playoff to determine the national champ.
You could also appease the bigger conferences who would have really good teams left out by adding a wild card team.
This would shut up the current non-BCS guys because they would at least have a shot at winning the title. That is all any one can ask for.
I said this before in the basketball boards: UNT basketball has a legit shot every year to win the whole (insert favorite big food item here). UNT football does not.

Goodness...sorry I'm late to the party...few things really rev my engine like college football playoff talk.

Do you not feel that college football has something truly "unique" in so far as every game has a "playoff"-like importance. True, there may be an incidental flaw that an early season loss is rarely weighted as heavily as one late in the year...but even if a team losses early it creates a sense of "urgency" with which that team has to play for the remainder of the season to give them any chance at playing in a BCS bowl game, or possibly the national championship.

I think the main flaw is in "pre-season" polls. In order to accurately gauge the quality of teams you should actually see "some" of the product on the field...maybe 4-6 weeks in to the season would be "reasonable"

UNT90 · January 8, 2009

It would be easy to retort that I've been beaten down by the constant bickering and pessimism of gmg.com, but that isn't the case. Don't worry about me. You'll see me at the games come hell or high water.
I was posing the question more from trying to take a step back and look at what the possibilities and objectives of the program are. As a guy who comes from a school with no football at all, if UNT had been a 1AA program when I showed up, I would have been quite happy. I do think that the status quo is unacceptable, and am interested in where this program is really going and what it really wants to be. If we're not going to be a national brand, and we're going to be in a conference that has less exposure than some 1AA programs while barely surviving on the pity money of body bag away games, I'm failing to understand the true benefits of FBS status.
If you look at the list of teams in my dream conference for UNT, you should be able to see that I'd like to see us as a regional interest in lieu of the impossibility of becoming a national one. If that can't happen, then the school needs to acknowledge its limited means and play within them.
So I suppose what I'm trying to look at isn't really something that can be classified into optimism/pessimism, but rather taking a look at the future of financial means and commitment in the long run. If it can be attained, then I say full speed ahead. If not, then acknowledge it and stop wallowing.
I otherwise apologize if my aura of puppy dogs and unicorns fails to meet gmg nation initiation standards.
ETA -- The bottom line for me is that I'm here for a degree and a job. Everything else is gravy, and I appreciate having it. That doesn't require meeting any person's expectations.

The remark wasn't meant as anything negative. Hell, you have been posting on here longer than I. I went to UNT when we were 1AA. Think about absolutely no pre-game activities, ZERO student interest (at some games, there were maybe 2000 in attendance), and having playoff home games decided on which school has better attendance (I don't remember one home game in the playoffs). If we went 1-AA, I would never attend another Football game, home or away, and would not donate to the athletic program. That's not me abandoning the program, that's the program abandoning itself.

All we need is some good luck (the right coach), several winning season, and the new stadium. This school has come a looooong way from where it used to be, and can go alot further. Just need people in charge who have the right VISION. Several winning seasons, a new stadium, trust me, alums will come back (If we freakin contact them!)

Please people, look at the future, not the past.

Edited January 8, 2009 by UNT90

UNT90 · January 8, 2009

That doesn't require meeting any person's expectations.

Maybe "expect" was the wrong word. Let's just say I'm "suprised". Better?

stebo · January 8, 2009

Maybe I am in the minority but I know exactly who won the Belt - Troy. They played against Southern Miss in the New Orleans Bowl and lost 30-27 in OT. I didn't have to look any of that up. Somebody also posted that we would never draw 30K for FIU. UL-Lafayette did this year. Just a few years ago, nobody in our area knew a thing about the MUTS and now they are a rival. It takes time to build up rivalries with new conference mates. We just finished our 2nd best attendance year ever with a 1 win team. We can draw against FAU and FIU - our fans come out for the atmosphere and to cheer for U-N-T, the opponent really doesn't matter.

All that being said - if the WAC would add 3 teams (my three would be UL-Lafayette, Arkie State, and NT) - we would have a nice SW Division of La Tech, NT, UL, ASU, and NMSU... the problem is they only offered us... But I don't look at Idaho, Utah State, and San Jose State as any more appealing than FAU, FIU, and Western Kentucky. We do not have a Boise yet but I bet that Troy gets there eventually. Given some time and money, we could get there too.

Green Mean · January 8, 2009

The fan buzz/attendancewas really good this year and is hopefully improving but it is just so sickening to see that while this is happening we have a team that is something like 8-38 in the past 4 years. I am telling you that if we keep on this path we will lose any sort of momentum we have gained in the last few years and rightfully so. People do not want to see a bad product on the field or court. If NT half asses football even after our stadium is built then it will be time to really fold. NT won't deserve any football.

Edited January 8, 2009 by Green Mean

TIgreen01 · January 8, 2009

The fan buzz/attendancewas really good this year and is hopefully improving but it is just so sickening to see that while this is happening we have a team that is something like 8-38 in the past 4 years. I am telling you that if we keep on this path we will lose any sort of momentum we have gained in the last few years and rightfully so. People do not want to see a bad product on the field or court. If NT half asses football even after our stadium is built then it will be time to really fold. NT won't deserve any football.

I give you the South Carolina Gamecocks. For DECADES they were losers with first class tailgating....which eventually propelled them up and into the SEC realm b/c the fanbase just kept growing in spite of the losses.

I'm not saying I want to follow that blueprint, but we have continued to grow our tailgate even during such a sour 4 year run on the actual football field. I mean, we constantly lament the fact that not even half of the tailgate crowd makes it into the stadium for games. Well, lots of them do....and you have to think that as the tailgate grows, so will our attendance as a percentage of that.

I mean, when you really look at it....probably the ONLY reason our attendance has not dropped off the map is b/c our tailgate is so popular.

So, in summary....as long as we can continue to throw a good party, North Texas does deserve college football!

Edited January 8, 2009 by TIgreen01

Mean Green 93-98 · January 8, 2009

I give you the South Carolina Gamecocks. For DECADES they were losers with first class tailgating....which eventually propelled them up and into the SEC realm b/c the fanbase just kept growing in spite of the losses.
I'm not saying I want to follow that blueprint, but we have continued to grow our tailgate even during such a sour 4 year run on the actual football field. I mean, we constantly lament the fact that not even half of the tailgate crowd makes it into the stadium for games. Well, lots of them do....and you have to think that as the tailgate grows, so will our attendance as a percentage of that.
I mean, when you really look at it....probably the ONLY reason our attendance has not dropped off the map is b/c our tailgate is so popular.
So, in summary....as long as we can continue to throw a good party, North Texas does deserve college football!

Unfortunately, our mascot does not have the genital overtones of South Carolina's.

Censored by Laurie · January 8, 2009

Unfortunately, our mascot does not have the genital overtones of South Carolina's.

I call mine "Scrappy." Does that count?

Quoner · January 8, 2009

I call mine "Scrappy." Does that count?

The ladies call mine by three words:

"Thanks, Mean Joe."

Green P1 · January 8, 2009

Don't we already have a thread on the topic of our endowments? It's getting really homoerotic up in here lately.

:mellow:

Edited January 8, 2009 by Green P1

oldguystudent · January 8, 2009

So, in summary....as long as we can continue to throw a good party, North Texas does deserve college football!

That's exactly how I feel. Had there been no tailgating, I probably would've gone to one game and been done with it. As I understand it though, the former 1AA status had nothing to do with the absence of tailgating during that period. As far as I know, RV brought tailgating to (back to?) UNT and GB has backed him on it. That is a huge contribution to the UNT community as far as I'm concerned. Hell, if they'd open up the parking lot in the middle of march for tailgating with no event at all I'd probably go. There are few things in life more fun than drinking beer, throwing dead carcasses of animals that once freely roamed the earth over an open fire and standing around with friends over hot asphalt. Those are good times...good times indeed.

UNT90 · January 8, 2009

That's exactly how I feel. Had there been no tailgating, I probably would've gone to one game and been done with it. As I understand it though, the former 1AA status had nothing to do with the absence of tailgating during that period. As far as I know, RV brought tailgating to (back to?) UNT and GB has backed him on it. That is a huge contribution to the UNT community as far as I'm concerned. Hell, if they'd open up the parking lot in the middle of march for tailgating with no event at all I'd probably go. There are few things in life more fun than drinking beer, throwing dead carcasses of animals that once freely roamed the earth over an open fire and standing around with friends over hot asphalt. Those are good times...good times indeed.

And don't forget good music.

Edited January 8, 2009 by UNT90

oldguystudent · January 8, 2009

And don't forget good music.

Touche' good sir. Touche'.

RETSO · January 8, 2009

All that being said - if the WAC would add 3 teams (my three would be UL-Lafayette, Arkie State, and NT) - we would have a nice SW Division of La Tech, NT, UL, ASU, and NMSU... the problem is they only offered us... But I don't look at Idaho, Utah State, and San Jose State as any more appealing than FAU, FIU, and Western Kentucky. We do not have a Boise yet but I bet that Troy gets there eventually. Given some time and money, we could get there too.

That is the perfect scenario...but first i think we would need Boise St to jump ship and move to the MWC...if that happens this could be a real possibility.

I think the real mistake of this University happened in the mid to late 90's during the old Big West Days.

We needed leadership and guidence during the virgin 1-A days. UNT should have followed the lead of Boise St and Nevada. Instead we wallowed in the mire with Ark St and ULL.....

Now we are stuck in a bad place........

"Give me WAC, or give me FCS"