Let's Open Up A Little Can Of Worms, Shall We?

oldguystudent · January 7, 2009

It's the off season. It's getting a little tiring with the repetitive threads on quarterback allegiances, stadium construction dates, coaching changes, the price of pot in the locker room, et al.

I was sitting around yesterday thinking about the future of our beloved football program exclusive of current coaching regime. Here's what I came up with. It is, in my mind, unacceptable to continue wallowing, ad eternum, in the muck of the bottom of the FBS barrel that is the Sunbelt Conference. This leaves two distinct possibilities:

1) Spend some money (from where this money comes is no the issue at hand), improve the program, win some games, and either join another conference, or talk some other regional schools into forming a new conference that contains some decent teams that have been playing FBS for more than 30 days. (I'd love to see a conference of UNT, SMU, TCU, La Tech, UTEP, Rice, Houston, and a couple more schools TBA)

2) Drop back down to 1AA.

If option 1 were to miraculously occur, I'd be pleased as punch. If not, I'm left asking myself the question if option 2 would be so bad. Here's why I think it wouldn't:

1) Given current (and apparently future) financial limitations, playing 1AA again is withing our means

2) Given number 1, we might actually be competitive in recruiting and play against our competition

3) Attendance would drop, but that wouldn't stop me from tailgating and attending games

4) Playoffs!

5) GMG.com members can bitch about postseason seedings rather than average margin of weekly blowout defeat

Of course, the elephant in the room were this to happen is that siny new $60 million stadium that's supposed to get built one of these days. We would admittedly look pretty foolish playing games in that thing with 4,000 people in attendance. Of course, if we continue our current FBS ways, that may still be the case.

In conclusion, this isn't about RV or TD or GB. It's about the bigger picture in the long run. So if we're to achieve option 1, how to go about it, and if not, what's so terribly wrong with option 2?

NT80 · January 7, 2009

#1 (new conference, CUSA, or MWC) needs to happen for UNT to grow as a larger program and attract a larger fan base. We'll never get 30K to come see FIU et al.

If #2 is your plan you might as well just kill the program because many fans won't go that road again, been there done that.

LongJim · January 7, 2009

In conclusion, this isn't about RV or TD or GB. It's about the bigger picture in the long run. So if we're to achieve option 1, how to go about it, and if not, what's so terribly wrong with option 2?

The school must be committed to fielding a D1 program. The jury is out on whether that commitment is where it needs to be.

The alumni must be committed to fielding a D1 program, and the students have to care, as well. That has not happened (historically) at UNT at the level necessary.

Until it does, and in my opinion, the SBC is exactly where UNT belongs.

Nothing 'terribly wrong' with option 2--if that's the expectation of the school and fanbase for the program. The question is, and has always been: "What is the expectation at UNT?" Until very recently, it seems as if the expectation is 'Let's do the best with what we have. We know our place and lot in life, and need to accept it."

General apathy, in other words.

Perhaps UNT could explore joining the WAC?

untjim1995 · January 7, 2009

It's the off season. It's getting a little tiring with the repetitive threads on quarterback allegiances, stadium construction dates, coaching changes, the price of pot in the locker room, et al.
I was sitting around yesterday thinking about the future of our beloved football program exclusive of current coaching regime. Here's what I came up with. It is, in my mind, unacceptable to continue wallowing, ad eternum, in the muck of the bottom of the FBS barrel that is the Sunbelt Conference. This leaves two distinct possibilities:
1) Spend some money (from where this money comes is no the issue at hand), improve the program, win some games, and either join another conference, or talk some other regional schools into forming a new conference that contains some decent teams that have been playing FBS for more than 30 days. (I'd love to see a conference of UNT, SMU, TCU, La Tech, UTEP, Rice, Houston, and a couple more schools TBA)
2) Drop back down to 1AA.
If option 1 were to miraculously occur, I'd be pleased as punch. If not, I'm left asking myself the question if option 2 would be so bad. Here's why I think it wouldn't:
1) Given current (and apparently future) financial limitations, playing 1AA again is withing our means
2) Given number 1, we might actually be competitive in recruiting and play against our competition
3) Attendance would drop, but that wouldn't stop me from tailgating and attending games
4) Playoffs!
5) GMG.com members can bitch about postseason seedings rather than average margin of weekly blowout defeat
Of course, the elephant in the room were this to happen is that siny new $60 million stadium that's supposed to get built one of these days. We would admittedly look pretty foolish playing games in that thing with 4,000 people in attendance. Of course, if we continue our current FBS ways, that may still be the case.
In conclusion, this isn't about RV or TD or GB. It's about the bigger picture in the long run. So if we're to achieve option 1, how to go about it, and if not, what's so terribly wrong with option 2?

I would rather us drop football than go back to FCS-level football. We are a huge-freaking school--we should never be playing in a conference full of SFAs or Nicholls States again. If the school doesn't want to fund the program properly, it will eventually fold anyway. The costs of running a legitimate FBS program is expensive. But, again, how many folks are lining up to attend the big Jazz concert that the school puts on or the big Art Exhibit? Nowhere near 17K. But, if the school just always wants to be a liberal arts oriented university first, I guess its their prerogative. But, to the anyone who thinks athletics costs to much, there is a cost as well in the missed opportunity that we should have had for years with a school of this size and location. There is no reason that UNT shouldn't at least resemble UH or UTEP right now. Heck, there is no reason that our program shouldn't at least resemble Tech's either. But moving down to I-AA knocked us backwards for so many years, that trying to make our way back now during this time period is going to be an uphil battle--especially if we can't get decent coaches to come here.

DeepGreen · January 7, 2009

Quick! Without doing a google search, who won the 2008 FCS championship game? Most have already forgotten. Dropping to FCS is not an option.

UNT, including the university and the fans, needs to either sh!t or get off the pot. At this stage, I'd be a proponent of moving to the WAC and let the hair go with the hide. If UNT football is going down, we might as well go down swinging.

Louisiana Tech would be our travel partner and the WAC has a much better TV deal. Plus, we would at least have New Mexico State to slap around again. Speaking of Louisiana Tech, there's a athletic program that does pretty well with not much to work with.

Edited January 7, 2009 by DeepGreen

oldguystudent · January 7, 2009

Quick! Without doing a google search, who won the 2008 FCS championship game? Most have already forgotten. Dropping to FCS is not an option.

First, I'll restate that I'm not advocating the drop, but in response, if you're not a member school, Quick! Without doing a google search, who won the 2008 Sunbelt Conference Championship? What Bowl did they go to? Who did they play? Who won?

Green P1 · January 7, 2009

It's the off season. It's getting a little tiring with the repetitive threads on quarterback allegiances, stadium construction dates, coaching changes, the price of pot in the locker room, et al.

I'm sorry.... but how is a spend more money or drop down to 1-AA a break away from thread repetition?

:mellow:

Edited January 7, 2009 by Green P1

oldguystudent · January 7, 2009

I'm sorry.... but how is a spend more money or drop down to 1-AA a break away from thread repetition?
mellow.gif

I suppose it's a break from finger pointing at individual coaches/players/administrators/posters/television networks/BCS overlords/imaginary football deities and thinking about a much larger picture over a much longer period of time. If not, then I guess I'm guilty as charged.

Pen Yan Fan · January 7, 2009

Does anyone have a copy of the famous Pull The Plug article?

DeepGreen · January 7, 2009

First, I'll restate that I'm not advocating the drop, but in response, if you're not a member school, Quick! Without doing a google search, who won the 2008 Sunbelt Conference Championship? What Bowl did they go to? Who did they play? Who won?

Thank you! You've made my case for joining the WAC.

Quoner · January 7, 2009

Thank you! You've made my case for joining the WAC.

YES - we're going to talk about joining the WAC now!

letsgiveacheer · January 7, 2009

As the economics professor would say, we are at equilibrium. The state of North Texas football really hasn't changed much since I have been a fan for almost 40 years. We may have had our moments of fame, such as Fry's later years but we always return to the same spot. I suspect a change of conference would do little to change the situation either. Have New Mexico State and Idaho taken off after leaving the Sunbelt for the WAC? Why would we climb to the next level if we went to the WAC or C-USA? You can speculate all you want, but history will not be on your side.

The argument about North Texas emphasizing liberal arts at the expense of athletics is invalid. We are comparing academic programs with an extracurricular activity. In fact, we should celebrate the fact that we have a few academic programs that bring us national attention. Without them, we would be just another "fourth tier" university like so many others.

Having said all that, it makes little difference to me what conference we are in as long as it is I-A. If we are going to play football, we might as well make some attempt to do it right.

DeepGreen · January 7, 2009

YES - we're going to talk about joining the WAC now!

Excellent choice of topics. Care to start a new thread?

ntsumgspe · January 7, 2009

YES - we're going to talk about joining the WAC now!

Stop this WAC-ky talk !!!

GO MEAN GREEN !!!

LongJim · January 7, 2009

YES - we're going to talk about joining the WAC now!

I'd like it noted that I pushed that button. It's like clockwork. Press the lever. Get the food pellet.

Edit: Wait...

Edited January 7, 2009 by LongJim

Quoner · January 7, 2009

I'd like it noted that I pushed that button. It's like clockwork. Press the lever. Get the food pellet.
Edit: Wait...

You win one damn Fiesta bowl and you just get cocky and flamboyant. The nerve...

LongJim · January 7, 2009

You win one damn Fiesta bowl and you just get cocky and flamboyant. The nerve...

I'm petitioning for the AP #1 dillweed slot, for Pete's sake. You can't win every year, sir.

KRAM1 · January 7, 2009

WAC sucks as a conference for UNT. Is it better than the Sunbelt...sure, but still not good for UNT. Conference USA maybe a bit, but not much, better...I say UNT needs to work on a whole new conference...getting some teams together that can build some decent "hate that team" - "let's kick their you-know-whats" - playing partners...like how much fun it is to play SMU! Now, that's fun and can lead to some "interesting" pre and post game fun! Smack talk and all that....

We have all be through this before...more than likely won't happen...but why the WAC or C-USA? If we change, let's talk Big XII.....

Go mean GREEN!

oldguystudent · January 7, 2009

.I say UNT needs to work on a whole new conference...getting some teams together that can build some decent "hate that team" - "let's kick their you-know-whats" - playing partners...like how much fun it is to play SMU! Now, that's fun and can lead to some "interesting" pre and post game fun! Smack talk and all that....

See the list of teams in the OP.

Quoner · January 7, 2009

I'm petitioning for the AP #1 dillweed slot, for Pete's sake. You can't win every year, sir.

You beat my on the field early, but I'm closing strong, so it's as good as mine.

Will you be sending any plane banners over my house/mom's basement? Maybe a justgotpwn3dbylongjimbowl.com banner?

LongJim · January 7, 2009

Will you be sending any plane banners over my house/mom's basement? Maybe a justgotpwn3dbylongjimbowl.com banner?

That's an awesome idea, although I doubt it's effectiveness. I can't imagine you letting the crown slip through your Cheetoh-and-fluid encrusted fingers. That's why I have to beat my own damn drum. I'm TOO subtle. Maybe I'll turn over a new leaf for the 2009 season.

TIgreen01 · January 7, 2009

First, I'll restate that I'm not advocating the drop, but in response, if you're not a member school, Quick! Without doing a google search, who won the 2008 Sunbelt Conference Championship? What Bowl did they go to? Who did they play? Who won?

Sorry....that doesn't work. Who won CUSA? MAC? I don't think most people would even know who won the Big East and their rep gets an auto bid to the BCS. You can repeat this for just about any conference in a year when one of the 'really, REALLY big schools' doesn't win the conference that particular year.

People follow brands, not conference champs. If anyone outside OU, Texas or Nebraska wins the Big 12....most people would guess wrong b/c they only really know a few of the brands in that conference. Same goes for the entire NCAA FBS.

Big brands:

USC

Notre Dame (who sucks now but the brand is still huge)

Texas

OU

Ohio St

Michigan

Florida

FSU

Penn State

...

Boise St (yes, they are developing a brand that is nationally known)

I'm sure I'm forgetting a few, but there are probably not more than 10 schools that are KNOWN nationwide.....sure, regionally different teams will be known to some extent....but your original argument is flawed. Most people (non die-hards) can't name the conference champs from year to year unless they just guess one of these "brand" teams and the team happened to win that year.

So...to answer your question. Do not drop to IAA....stay the course. Get the stadium built. Keep scheduling like our 2009 schedule is shaping up (ie---cream puff) and put together a team that is capable of winning the Sun Belt every year. Wins build a fanbase (as evidenced by our 2001-2004 run).

Here's a question that I haven't heard asked. If Boise State were to be offered an invite to the MWC (as it currently exists as a non-AQ conference), should/would they take it? BSU would not run the tables against that schedule upgrade every year and the luster of their impecable record would be tarnished.....they already sell out nearly every game they play at home so improved attendance isn't really a carrot being offered by the better recognized teams in MWC.

Green Lantern · January 7, 2009

I'd like it noted that I pushed that button. It's like clockwork. Press the lever. Get the food pellet.
Edit: Wait...

Subtle, yet effective strategy there LongJim. Don't go for full conference realignment talk yet, just dangle the WAC conversation out there and hilarity ensues. You're one sly devil.

aztecskin · January 7, 2009

Alright guys, I think it is pretty safe to say that becoming a National Brand is a few decades away. I think however, that we can become regionally known. That is very possible. I have argued this before here and on the ol' blog.

We need a huge financial investment and/or a gimmick.

We are in the midst of a gimmick attempt (Dodge-y) now we are hoping for a financial boost. That will be hard to come by given a) our record and the economy.

It is very possible to own this [slang for excrement] conference. I am talking domination. Once we accomplish that baby-step, we can start seriously talking about graduating to a respectable conference.

Hell, I would love to be snubbed for a national title for a few years, like Boise St and Utah have.

Of course, after a few years of that, then I would be talking about joining the Big 12 or the Big Ten (11) ... but that is for the future.

GreenAlums · January 7, 2009

It's the off season. It's getting a little tiring with the repetitive threads on quarterback allegiances, stadium construction dates, coaching changes, the price of pot in the locker room, et al.
In conclusion, this isn't about RV or TD or GB. It's about the bigger picture in the long run. So if we're to achieve option 1, how to go about it, and if not, what's so terribly wrong with option 2?

uh.........no!