Unt's Next Head Coach Has To Be Black

[MeanGreenZen]

Six of 119 coaches (5 percent) in the Football Bowl Subdivision are black. Compare that to the 28.5 percent of coaches in major college basketball who are black and almost one-quarter of NFL coaches are who black.

Is there something about college football that makes blacks ineffective head coaches? No. Therefore we can conclude that the college football marketplace undervalues black head coaches.

This inefficiency in the marketplace is an opportunity North Texas should exploit. UNT is at a competitive disadvantage compared to other FBS schools because it lacks resources in a number of areas.

UNT has to find ways to maximize its strengths and minimize its weaknesses. Weakness: Little money to hire a great coach. Way to minimize weakness: Hire a super-talented black head coach who the market unfairly undervalues and can be hired for an amount we can afford.

Blacks and whites have equal ability to coach a college football team. With UNT’s limited resources, isn’t it a better value to hire the 7th best black head coaching candidate as opposed to the 114th best white head coaching candidate?

Of course, North Texas has hired a black head coach before and that coach failed. But did Matt Simon fail because he was black? No. Among the reasons he failed was because, at that time, UNT made a half-hearted commitment to moving up to Division IA and did not have the money, facilities, game-day atmosphere, etc. to be successful. Would Vince Lombardi or Mack Brown have been any more successful than Simon? Probably not. (Another reason Simon failed was his reliance on out-of-state JUCO transfers, which is a mistake Todd Dodge is repeating, but that is another topic.)

Recruiting quality players is a current weakness of the UNT football program. The majority of college football players are black. A black head coach would give us an advantage when recruiting those players, especially locally.

UNT is competing with SMU and TCU for local recruits who are attracted to the idea of playing college football close to home. Both SMU and TCU are private schools with small African-American communities. A black head coach would help UNT maximize its strength of having a large, diverse campus community.

UNT has to be different to win. If UNT chooses to compete “apples to apples” with other schools in the FBS, the other schools are going to eat UNT’s apples and the Mean Green will continue to lose. Hiring a black head coach is one tactic UNT can use to build a successful college football program.

Edited January 1, 2009 by MG Insurance Pro

[untbowler]

Six of 119 coaches (5 percent) in the Football Bowl Subdivision are black. Compare that to the 28.5 percent of coaches in major college basketball who are black and almost one-quarter of NFL coaches are who black.

Is there something about college football that makes blacks ineffective head coaches? No. Therefore we can conclude that the college football marketplace undervalues black head coaches.

This inefficiency in the marketplace is an opportunity North Texas should exploit. UNT is at a competitive disadvantage compared to other FBS schools because it lacks resources in a number of areas.

UNT has to find ways to maximize its strengths and minimize its weaknesses. Weakness: Little money to hire a great coach. Way to minimize weakness: Hire a super-talented black head coach who the market unfairly undervalues and can be hired for an amount we can afford.

Blacks and whites have equal ability to coach a college football team. With UNT’s limited resources, isn’t it a better value to hire the 7th best black head coaching candidate as opposed to the 114th best white head coaching candidate?

Of course, North Texas has hired a black head coach before and that coach failed. But did Matt Simon fail because he was black? No. Among the reasons he failed was because, at that time, UNT made a half-hearted commitment to moving up to Division IA and did not have the money, facilities, game-day atmosphere, etc. to be successful. Would Vince Lombardi or Mack Brown have been any more successful than Simon? Probably not. (Another reason Simon failed was his reliance on out-of-state JUCO transfers, which is a mistake Todd Dodge is repeating, but that is another topic.)

Recruiting quality players is a current weakness of the UNT football program. The majority of college football players are black. A black head coach would give us an advantage when recruiting those players, especially locally.

UNT is competing with SMU and TCU for local recruits who are attracted to the idea of playing college football close to home. Both SMU and TCU are private schools with small African-American communities. A black head coach would help UNT maximize its strength of having a large, diverse campus community.

UNT has to be different to win. If UNT chooses to compete “apples to apples” with other schools in the FBS, the other schools are going to eat UNT’s apples and the Mean Green will continue to lose. Hiring a black head coach is one tactic UNT can use to build a successful college football program.

NMSU has now beaten us to the punch, but we could be the 8th if we tried really hard.

[LoveMG]

Hiring a black head coach is one tactic UNT can use to build a successful college football program.

this is a stupid thread, hiring a person just because of their color is not only illegal it is also racist. you think black kids are not smart enough to pick a progrma on its own merits that they will simply sign because a coach is black. why not a hispanic coach to get a great kicker or tungan coach to get great sized linemen. we need a winning coach without regard to his race, religion, hat size, or any other factor.

[Boomer23]

Seriously, what the hell does being black have to do with anything in a coach?

This is retarded.

[emmitt01]

why not a hispanic coach to get a great kicker

Zeke and I are on board with this idea.

[UNT90]

Success and failure comes in all colors. For failure, I give you Ty Willingham (ubber qualified for the UNT job) and Todd Dodge (so far). I think putting any limitation on any future head coach candidate search is just plain stupid.

[Maverick]

Seriously, what the hell does being black have to do with anything in a coach?

This is retarded.

The NFL has the Rooney Rule, which basically means they have to interview a minority. This is to get minority coaches more opportunities to be seen, after all the hiring of coaches is a who you know business, on all levels, the idea is to get some top notch minority coaches in the door and maybe owners would see their skills and hire them or tell another owner what a good canidate they are, get there name out, etc.

Now at first I hated that rule, but it does not require the team to hire the guy, just give em a shot.

I say that because there is much talk about bringing that rule to the NCAA. To me, one who hates affirmative action, I like the rule. Most of the time there are good minority coaches that just need a litlle more exposure. This would give it to them without forcing the hand of the institution doing the hiring.

Now the NFL will always be ahead of the NCAA, because of educational requirement, and the fact that the NFL does it's intern hiring almost solely on getting minorities involved. I have had several coaching friends who were turned down and told(off the record) that it was because they needed to hire a minority.

And believe me, that is on all levels. I have seen coaches in high school that were only hired because they were a minority. Some were good coaches and some were horrible.

When I was looking for my first job, there was a town about 15 miles from my hometown and they had an opening but, they put "looking for minority coaches" which left me out. I am not sure I like that, if it were reversed people would sue! BTW, I enjoyed beating those guys like a drum this year in the playoffs.

I will say that being black does help with recruiting, but not a must. Kids will make up there mind based on other things first. Most of the big programs have really good black assistants who do an outstanding job in recruiting. But it does matter to kids, I know, I coach them and talk to them about why they make the decisions they do.

To say that NT next coach needs to be black to me is a dumb one. 1st of all, you have a coach. One who I think is a good one(ok, don't shoot), but he needs time for a lot of reasons. Two, don't hire a coach on the basis of skin color. Hire them on whether or not you think they can lead your program. NT has had a black coach, where were the big name recruits? DD had been the best recruiter I have seen at NT.(look at the guys that went to the NFL) I am speaking of Head coaches, I am sure you will say that it wasn't DD but some of his assistants.

[UNTLifer]

Seriously, what the hell does being black have to do with anything in a coach?

This is retarded.

Yes it is especially considering we don't have an opening.

Plus, Dodge's last class was rated higher than either SMU's or TCU's.

[Green P1]

Best thread of 2009!!!!

While we're at it, maybe we could bring in an Asian offensive coordinator who's good at math?

[Maverick]

Best thread of 2009!!!!

While we're at it, maybe we could bring in an Asian offensive coordinator who's good at math?

LOL!

[eulessismore]

Best thread of 2009!!!!

While we're at it, maybe we could bring in an Asian offensive coordinator who's good at math?

Well, I guess the math part at least plays to a positive racial stereotype, and of course there is someone who fits the "Asian offensive coordinator" part; Norm Chow, currently OC at UCLA.

Norm Chow bio from UCLA website

Unfortunately for UCLA, the coaching changes they made last year didn't result in more wins; just the opposite. That might lead to any number of conclusions, such as "It was Rick Neuheisel's (sp?) first year; wait till he gets his recruits on the field", or "Maybe we should start thinking about who our next hc/oc/dc should be".

Seriously (although there are many aspects of affirmation action programs I find objectionable), one strategy I've liked, at least in theory, is looking at a wider variety of backgrounds when recruiting staff. And further, as many of you might guess, I think there will be a wider variety of national and ethnic backgrounds for football players and coaches in the future; yes, the Polynesian community continues to make strong inroads, and Navy made a good hire last year with the first Polynesian major college head coach.

I have wondered what the future will be like in football for those of Hispanic and Asian backgrounds; I found it interesting seeing the last name "Nguyen" on a Euless Trinity player's jersey this last year; unfortunately for him, he didn't see any real playing time this year. I thought he might have been Dat Nguyen's son, but don't really know. I have noticed that the Hispanic kicker stereotype seems to be reflected on the field, at least for Texas high school football.

I don't think it's necessarily a good idea to target a particular minority for hiring as a college head coach, but I do think it's a good idea to consider and interview a large number of coaching candidates from diverse backgrounds when searching for a college football coach. I also consider it a great attribute for that position to be able to work with those from diverse backgrounds and create a team unity that leads to on field success.

Edited January 1, 2009 by eulessismore

[MeanGreenZen]

Plus, Dodge's last class was rated higher than either SMU's or TCU's.

Here is a quote from you in the Mean Green recruiting thread: "Classes should never be graded after two years."

You seem to be contradicting yourself. PS: TCU is almost competing in BCS bowls. I don't think we are recruiting on the same level as them. Also: June Jones has a few more skins on the wall as a college coach compared to Todd Dodge and from what I have seen, any UNT fan would trade recruiting classes with SMU so far.

[MeanGreenZen]

Seriously, what the hell does being black have to do with anything in a coach?

Exactly. Which is why it is crazy these black coaches are being excluded from jobs. We should target a black coach for the same reason the Texas Rangers invested so heavily in scouting Puerto Rico in the 1980s (yielding All-Stars such as Ruben Sierra, Juan Gonzalez, Pudge Rodriguez among others). No one else was scouting Puerto Rico at that time, so the Rangers came away with all the elite players.

The market for a black head college football coach is untapped and oozing with potential. We can find an elite coach for cheap in this market.

[LoveMG]

Exactly. Which is why it is crazy these black coaches are being excluded from jobs. We should target a black coach for the same reason the Texas Rangers invested so heavily in scouting Puerto Rico in the 1980s (yielding All-Stars such as Ruben Sierra, Juan Gonzalez, Pudge Rodriguez among others). No one else was scouting Puerto Rico at that time, so the Rangers came away with all the elite players.

The market for a black head college football coach is untapped and oozing with potential. We can find an elite coach for cheap in this market.

any elite names you have in mind that can't seem to find meaningful work?

Edited January 1, 2009 by LoveMG

[UNTflyer]

We can find an elite coach for cheap in this market.

Why, are black coaches not worth as much as white coaches?

All kidding aside, it is just as wrong to hire a coach because he is black as it is to not hire a coach because he isn't white. All that should matter is the skill he brings to the position. So what will be "fair"? When the number of black coaches proportionally equal the general population? Or when it is 50-50 black/white?

To say there is no progress in college coaching is not true. In the SEC, almost 40% of all assistant coaches are non-white. Ole Miss, arguably one of the schools that fought integration the hardest, now has more minority coaches than white coaches (5 out of 9). Did we need a law or Rooney Rule to make this happen? Nope. And these young minority assistant coaches will soon be tapped to fill in the head coaching jobs.

One of these days, there will be a Rooney Rule that requires NFL teams to interview female head coaches... just wait and see.

Edited January 1, 2009 by UNTflyer

[NT03]

I'd take Ken Norton Jr , but not because he's black

Edited January 1, 2009 by NT03

[MeanGreenZen]

any elite names you have in mind that can't seem to find meaningful work?

Yes. Ramon Flanigan. No, wait.... Kelvin Martin. Hahahahaha. Just kidding. No. I do not have names of specific candidates. But I would look for a young, energetic coordinator of a mid-major FBS school who excels at recruiting.

Edited January 1, 2009 by MG Insurance Pro

[MeanGreenZen]

Why, are black coaches not worth as much as white coaches?

Correct. In the purest economic sense, black coaches are not worth as much as white coaches in the current marketplace. But this is an inefficiency that I encourage UNT to exploit. Black head coaches are a great value right now. All coaches must be judged as an individual. But, for many reasons that I disagree with, talented black football coaches are not being given very many opportunities to be a head coach at FBS schools right now.

This is creating a backlog of talent and an opportunity for UNT to get a guy who, based on ability alone, would demand more money/better facilities/better conference affiliation, etc than UNT can offer, but since he is black, he doesn't have as many opportunities to be a head coach as he should have and he would be willing to accept the UNT job for an amount that we could afford to pay him as a chance to prove himself.

Edited January 1, 2009 by MG Insurance Pro

[UNTLifer]

Here is a quote from you in the Mean Green recruiting thread: "Classes should never be graded after two years."

You seem to be contradicting yourself. PS: TCU is almost competing in BCS bowls. I don't think we are recruiting on the same level as them. Also: June Jones has a few more skins on the wall as a college coach compared to Todd Dodge and from what I have seen, any UNT fan would trade recruiting classes with SMU so far.

You are absolutely correct that a class should not be rated this early, I was just responding to your comment that we are not recruiting as effective as SMU or TCU. The only point of reference are the recruiting experts and they all rated NT's class higher than the 2 privates and one of the top classes of any mid-major.

I seem to recall the majority of this board being extremely excited about our recruiting too. My how opinions change, even when most of these young men have yet to set foot on the field.

This board lives up to it's nickname more and more every day.

[GreenBat]

NT has had a black head football coach, Matt Simon. He was not good for the program, but I'd support Bruce Chambers or any QUALIFIED Coach of any color. NT is farther ahead than most schools in minority hirings. NT has a Men's and Women's basketball coach, both of color Johnny Jones and Shanice Stephens. NT also has a minority, Sujay Lama, as the women's tennis coach.

Coaching is about Win's & Losses, not about the color of skin. I believe NT should hire the most qualified person for the job, no matter of color.

[MeanGreenZen]

So what will be "fair"? When the number of black coaches proportionally equal the general population? Or when it is 50-50 black/white?

According to a survey by The Institute of Diversity and Ethics in Sports, 12.2 percent of coordinators are black and 30.6 percent of assistant coaches are black. If the coaching market was not so inefficient, the percentage of black head coaches and the percentage of black assistant coaches would closely mirror each other.

Please note that I am not interested in fairness, right and wrong or any type of social agenda. I just see an opportunity for UNT to get a stud coach at a huge discount simply because that coach is black. Considering all the disadvantages the UNT athletic program faces, isn't that smart?

Edited January 2, 2009 by MG Insurance Pro

[LoveMG]

But this is an inefficiency that I encourage UNT to exploit. Black head coaches are a great value right now. All coaches must be judged as an individual. But, for many reasons that I disagree with, talented black football coaches are not being given very many opportunities to be a head coach at FBS schools right now.

This is creating a backlog of talent and an opportunity for UNT to get a guy who, based on ability alone, would demand more money/better facilities/better conference affiliation, etc than UNT can offer, but since he is black, he doesn't have as many opportunities to be a head coach as he should have and he would be willing to accept the UNT job for an amount that we could afford to pay him as a chance to prove himself.

So by your rationale should we also be going after more non-black recruits because a disproportionate amount are black?

Edited January 2, 2009 by LoveMG

[MeanGreenZen]

So by your rationale should we also be going after more non-black recruits because a disproportionate amount are black?

Absolutely. Hell Yes! Ask Johnny Quinn why none of the big schools came knocking on his door and he will tell you because he is a white receiver. That is probably the biggest reason he ended up at UNT. Unfortunately, there aren't that many great white receivers or white running backs at the college level. But if we can find them we should jump all over them. I hoped Dodge, with his Southlake/Austin Westlake roots might be able to find some of these guys. Because white receivers and white running backs ARE overlooked. I am disappointed Dodge hasn't done a very good job in that department, although he probably has tried to exploit this market inefficiency with Micah Mosely, Breece Johnson, Sam Dibrell, etc.

While white running backs and white receivers of FBS-level talent are rare, there are many black assistant coaches who are being overlooked right now who would make stud head coaches

Edited January 2, 2009 by MG Insurance Pro

[LoveMG]

Absolutely. Hell Yes! Ask Johnny Quinn why none of the big schools came knocking on his door and he will tell you because he is a white receiver. That is probably the biggest reason he ended up at UNT. Unfortunately, there aren't that many great white receivers or white running backs at the college level. But if we can find them we should jump all over them. I hoped Dodge, with his Southlake/Austin Westlake roots might be able to find some of these guys. He hasn't done a very good job in that dept.

There are, however, many black coaches who are being overlooked right now, but would make stud head coaches.

but if we hire a black coach how are we going to get these unrecruited good white players?

[emmitt01]

You are absolutely correct that a class should not be rated this early, I was just responding to your comment that we are not recruiting as effective as SMU or TCU. The only point of reference are the recruiting experts and they all rated NT's class higher than the 2 privates and one of the top classes of any mid-major.

I seem to recall the majority of this board being extremely excited about our recruiting too. My how opinions change, even when most of these young men have yet to set foot on the field.

This board lives up to it's nickname more and more every day.

Let's see, here's the "young men who have yet to set foot on the field" and how many games they set foot on the field:

Adryan Adams/8

Brandon Akpunku/9

DeWaylon Cook/11

Riley Dodge/3

Lance Dunbar/5

Kylie Hill/12

Darien Williams/12

Coleman Feeley/7

Troy Franklin/6

James Hamilton/11

Royce Hill/12

Jeremy Knott/12

John Shorter/12

Willie Taylor/1

So, of the 26 players that we signed (and I'm not counting Gabe Hollivay or Nate Jenkins) 14 of them played...11 more than half the season. I sure can't wait until Todd Dodge can get "his" players in here.

And can we please make up our minds ladies and gentlemen. Are we the youngest team in the country (in which case I wonder why upper classmen saw so much of the bench) or are our youngsters not setting foot on the field (which is patently untrue)? Which excuse do we want to give Dodge? Let's pick one and run with it shall we?