Is It Realistic To Hope For A Long Term Coach?

GreenMachine · December 27, 2008

Think big. Be disappointed. Baby steps.

Are you the CEO of GM, Ford, or Chrysler?

Green Dozer · December 28, 2008

I think it is good to think big. I am in sales, so I have to stay positive, especially in today's environment. And just like any organization, the buck stops at the head guy's desk, and Dodge is that guy. But to just continue to change this position, and not take time to build a program is just taking a few steps forward, and then backing up several at a time. Lifer has made some good points concerning this, and he has been around this program long enough for that opinion to have a lot of credibility.

You know, the drug thing and as Quoner has pointed out, the other police type problems did not develop overnight. I cannot help but think that the drug problem cost us at least one win, maybe two because I can only imagine what a big distraction it was, and the players knew about it long before we did. That said, would you rather have these problems addressed at the beginning of rebuilding the program or in the middle of a bowl run? I am of the opinion the sooner the better. Because these types of traditions on teams keep going as well, unfortunately. I admire Dodge for taking a stand. The coach who is the most responsible is the coach that overlooks it and does nothing.

Other things for a coach to be successful here, today, are not in place. The strength coach is the most recent example. When Jimmy Johnson took over the Cowboys, they were training in Thousand Oaks, Calif. and most players did not darken the doorway at Valley Ranch during the off season. He instigated mandatory mini camps (i know that is not possible at the college level), and they went to 100 degree heat of Austin to train. We know the results then, and what they are now. They were not only the most talented, but the best conditioned. The triplets missed very few games over their careers due to nagging injuries. Many seem surprised we did not have a dedicated strength coach. We have the facility, just not somebody popping the whip. If it is a Dodge homey, as somebody said it might be, I do not care as long as we get one and have successful results. It can Mrs. Dodge for all I care.

We also need a stronger academic support team for our athletes to keep these guys successful in the classroom. There have been just to many players losing eligibility to say what we are doing is the best we can do. I would also argue that we need a stronger counseling/mentoring staff to help these kids transition from high school to college, help them see some of the challenges they may face, and how to make responsible decisions. Other programs have it, not just the big boys. The coaches cannot game plan, recruit, and baby sit in today's environment. I know some of you took 20 hours and worked 80 hours at the local coal mine while here, but there are some who need some support and motivation.

And, after reading Silver's post, we have got to get the graduates of the 80's and 90's back on campus to support the program. For the most part, they overlooked athletics while they were here because of lack of importance the administration during that time placed on it. It will take a new stadium, a lot of success, and a change in conference affiliation for that to happen. Four Sun Belt Conference championships did not get them back as was and is needed.

I think and know things could be a lot better. I do not like to lose! But these are just a few of the bullets for the big gun our coach needs to have a success here at UNT. As 90 says, we need to think big. But we need to also take care of the little details so we can do so.

*Fact to Ponder- 13 NFL teams have played in the Super Bowl this decade. Of the men who coached those teams, only two had been at the helm less than 5 years. Sometimes, patience does pay.

Edited December 28, 2008 by Green Dozer

SilverEagle · December 28, 2008

And, after reading Silver's post, we have got to get the graduates of the 80's and 90's back on campus to support the program. For the most part, they overlooked athletics while they were here because of lack of importance the administration during that time placed on it. It will take a new stadium, a lot of success, and a change in conference affiliation for that to happen. Four Sun Belt Conference championships did not get them back as was and is needed.
I think and know things could be a lot better. I do not like to lose! But these are just a few of the bullets for the big gun our coach needs to have a success here at UNT. As 90 says, we need to think big. But we need to also take care of the little details so we can do so.

I would include a lot of other decades in that as well. I'm sure that with the current staff of motivated ( :rolleyes: ) athletic department personel, there won't be any problem getting all of the disinfranchised (and disillusioned) North Texas almuni back in the fold.

I think I need another one of these in the post....... :rolleyes:

Travis · December 28, 2008

I understand that but sometimes you have to take a step back before you step forward. You cannot set goals too lofty too soon. You don't want to set a goal of losing 100lbs because you will fail. If you set a goal of running or walking 5 miles a week, you may very well hit that 100lb goal eventually as you create more goals on your path. The program, the systems, the coaches, everything is completely different from when Coach Dickey left. It will take time for this to all come together. I won't lie, I was disappointed as heck this season. I even gave my season tickets away for one game because I was sick of the way we were getting blasted. The thing that changed my mind about this team was the heart and fire they showed against Arkansas State. The defense had a spark I hadn't seen all season. For this reason and the fact that we will have a new Special Teams coach, I have hope. A dedicated strength coach won't hurt either.
If I am wrong and we get blown out every game again next year, I will eat crow. Figuratively speaking of course, but I will own up to all of the I told you so that will be fired my way.

I see what you are saying.

Most personal trainers believe that you should make reasonable/attainable goals and build from that. Apperently, studies show that if your goals are within grasp you attain those and reset new goals along the way.

It is good to have "big picture" goals like a master plan that is long term with short term easy goals as well. Why not have both big steps and baby step goals?

UNT90 · December 29, 2008

I think it is good to think big. I am in sales, so I have to stay positive, especially in today's environment. And just like any organization, the buck stops at the head guy's desk, and Dodge is that guy. But to just continue to change this position, and not take time to build a program is just taking a few steps forward, and then backing up several at a time. Lifer has made some good points concerning this, and he has been around this program long enough for that opinion to have a lot of credibility.
You know, the drug thing and as Quoner has pointed out, the other police type problems did not develop overnight. I cannot help but think that the drug problem cost us at least one win, maybe two because I can only imagine what a big distraction it was, and the players knew about it long before we did. That said, would you rather have these problems addressed at the beginning of rebuilding the program or in the middle of a bowl run? I am of the opinion the sooner the better. Because these types of traditions on teams keep going as well, unfortunately. I admire Dodge for taking a stand. The coach who is the most responsible is the coach that overlooks it and does nothing.
Other things for a coach to be successful here, today, are not in place. The strength coach is the most recent example. When Jimmy Johnson took over the Cowboys, they were training in Thousand Oaks, Calif. and most players did not darken the doorway at Valley Ranch during the off season. He instigated mandatory mini camps (i know that is not possible at the college level), and they went to 100 degree heat of Austin to train. We know the results then, and what they are now. They were not only the most talented, but the best conditioned. The triplets missed very few games over their careers due to nagging injuries. Many seem surprised we did not have a dedicated strength coach. We have the facility, just not somebody popping the whip. If it is a Dodge homey, as somebody said it might be, I do not care as long as we get one and have successful results. It can Mrs. Dodge for all I care.
We also need a stronger academic support team for our athletes to keep these guys successful in the classroom. There have been just to many players losing eligibility to say what we are doing is the best we can do. I would also argue that we need a stronger counseling/mentoring staff to help these kids transition from high school to college, help them see some of the challenges they may face, and how to make responsible decisions. Other programs have it, not just the big boys. The coaches cannot game plan, recruit, and baby sit in today's environment. I know some of you took 20 hours and worked 80 hours at the local coal mine while here, but there are some who need some support and motivation.
And, after reading Silver's post, we have got to get the graduates of the 80's and 90's back on campus to support the program. For the most part, they overlooked athletics while they were here because of lack of importance the administration during that time placed on it. It will take a new stadium, a lot of success, and a change in conference affiliation for that to happen. Four Sun Belt Conference championships did not get them back as was and is needed.
I think and know things could be a lot better. I do not like to lose! But these are just a few of the bullets for the big gun our coach needs to have a success here at UNT. As 90 says, we need to think big. But we need to also take care of the little details so we can do so.
*Fact to Ponder- 13 NFL teams have played in the Super Bowl this decade. Of the men who coached those teams, only two had been at the helm less than 5 years. Sometimes, patience does pay.

I don't think losing by 40 to 50 points would be a direct result of an off the field issue.

I am one of the people you speak of. I graduated in 90 and would occasionally take in a FB or BB game after college, but did not support the program. I followed the team pretty closely during the 4 conference title years, but mainly did it from afar. I bought season tickets for the first time this season. Dodge was partially responsible for that. I EXPECT this program to improve. I EXPECT a .500 season next year. If we aren't .500, I EXPECT a serious performance review of everyone in the athletic department.

We have a window, with the new stadium opening and conference reallignments on the horizon. This window could make or break D1 football at UNT. We can not afford to waste this opportunity, like we have so many others.

When I try to get my old college buddies interested in the football program, they just roll their eyes and say "they suck, why would I want to go watch them play?" These are the same people who were curiously observing the program during the 4 year run. We even went to a couple of away games. After the program nose dived, they lost interest. Point being, they, like me, expect a competitive D1 football program. They don't want to here "baby steps". Hell, this program has been around for about 100 years! Baby steps!!

People like winners. Win and they will flock back, especially with a new stadium.

Me? I'm hooked on the tailgaiting, so I'll be around for a while.

Edited December 29, 2008 by UNT90

Green Mean · December 29, 2008

We need to find a quality coach who can win. In those wins we need to somewhat compete with BCS schools. If we do that then more people will come and be attracted to NT football. Then it is up to the administration to give the coach more reasons to stay such as significantly raise his salary based on his performance. It is possible but it is up for NT to make all of this happen.

Green Dozer · December 29, 2008

We need to find a quality coach who can win. In those wins we need to somewhat compete with BCS schools. If we do that then more people will come and be attracted to NT football. Then it is up to the administration to give the coach more reasons to stay such as significantly raise his salary based on his performance. It is possible but it is up for NT to make all of this happen.

Green Mean,

I respectively agree and disagree. Yes, we need a competitive coach that can win. Other schools, ones in our own conference, South Florida, UCF had no program and the alumnae stepped up. They are doing so at Georgia Southern, UAB and other places where there is no tradition. My point is I believe we have somehow got to get those 70,000 alumnae in DFW alone to take ownership. One man cannot do it. A significant raise or salary is not up to the university, it is up to the athletic department to raise the money from us to pay these coaches.

UNT2012 · December 31, 2008

Green Mean,
I respectively agree and disagree. Yes, we need a competitive coach that can win. Other schools, ones in our own conference, South Florida, UCF had no program and the alumnae stepped up. They are doing so at Georgia Southern, UAB and other places where there is no tradition. My point is I believe we have somehow got to get those 70,000 alumnae in DFW alone to take ownership. One man cannot do it. A significant raise or salary is not up to the university, it is up to the athletic department to raise the money from us to pay these coaches.

Thats the problem, we have a weak AD and athletic dept. in general along with one of the weakest alumni fundraising teams in America.

Edited December 31, 2008 by UNT2012

Green Mean · December 31, 2008

No question that the alumni needs to do their part too but I strongly believe that it all starts at the very top. If you wont get 100% full fledged commitment and them actually showing it to the public then it effects everything else. It is a matter of creating some consistency, tradition and pedigree. It does not happen overnight but NT needs to put more into coaches salaries especially based on performances. The budget needs to increased for coaches top to bottom and increased recruiting budgets so there is flexibility to go anywhere in the country or even world to go try and recruit. If the school does their part then the alumni will definitely come but the alumni needs to see commitment first.

Green Dozer · December 31, 2008

No question that the alumni needs to do their part too but I strongly believe that it all starts at the very top. If you wont get 100% full fledged commitment and them actually showing it to the public then it effects everything else. It is a matter of creating some consistency, tradition and pedigree. It does not happen overnight but NT needs to put more into coaches salaries especially based on performances. The budget needs to increased for coaches top to bottom and increased recruiting budgets so there is flexibility to go anywhere in the country or even world to go try and recruit. If the school does their part then the alumni will definitely come but the alumni needs to see commitment first.

What else can Dr. B and RV do? They can't hold guns to the alumnae. Dr. B is at most of the UNT athletic events, they got the stadium coming, coaches were changed, the Mean Green Athletic Village was built, etc. Not many programs where you can call the athletic director and actually get a call back. It is RV's job to promote UNT athletics, not the President's. Could he do better? Certainly, but at this point if we are to make any real progress, it up to the alumni who are not supporting this program to step up and do so. Dr.'s Pohl and B, as well as Rick, have done more to enhance UNT athletics than any of their predecessors. Again, I hear you, and understand. If this apathetic alumnae base truly wants better, then they need so show it with their faces at games and money from their pocket book.

UNT90 · December 31, 2008

What else can Dr. B and RV do? They can't hold guns to the alumnae. Dr. B is at most of the UNT athletic events, they got the stadium coming, coaches were changed, the Mean Green Athletic Village was built, etc. Not many programs where you can call the athletic director and actually get a call back. It is RV's job to promote UNT athletics, not the President's. Could he do better? Certainly, but at this point if we are to make any real progress, it up to the alumni who are not supporting this program to step up and do so. Dr.'s Pohl and B, as well as Rick, have done more to enhance UNT athletics than any of their predecessors. Again, I hear you, and understand. If this apathetic alumnae base truly wants better, then they need so show it with their faces at games and money from their pocket book.

I'd like to see a telephone list compiled for as many graduates as possible. Then I'd like to see a telephone marketing campaign initiated to contact each and every one of these graduates, informing them of the coming stadium, and requesting that they support their university with a donation. Before becoming a Mean Green Club member, I never received one of these calls, even while a member of the NT Exes. Mass mailing will be just thrown away. Personal contact is the way to go.

RV has definitely done more than any other AD for athletics, but there is so much farther to go. Leaps and bounds instead of baby steps!!!

Edited December 31, 2008 by UNT90

Green Dozer · December 31, 2008

I'd like to see a telephone list compiled for as many graduates as possible. Then I'd like to see a telephone marketing campaign initiated to contact each and every one of these graduates, informing them of the coming stadium, and requesting that they support their university with a donation. Before becoming a Mean Green Club member, I never received one of these calls, even while a member of the NT Exes. Mass mailing will be just thrown away. Personal contact is the way to go.
RV has definitely done more than any other AD for athletics, but there is so much farther to go. Leaps and bounds instead of baby steps!!!

90,

Good thoughts. However, give FFR a call about how the last telethon type thing went. And how about asking them to just support the program in general. The stadium will not solve all of our challenges in making us competitive like a Div. 1 school in Texas should be.