Is It Realistic To Hope For A Long Term Coach?

oldguystudent · December 26, 2008

So let's say hypothetically that we were to come across a head coach who got along with the players, administration, fan base and the media. This coach is winning 9-10 games every year, and UNT's starting to get some notice. The attendance at home games starts to grow towards the 30,000 mark. At $275,000 a year, would said coach stick around for a contract extension? I know that UNT has a limited athletic budget, so hoping for the million dollar contract isn't realistic at all. The question is whether a coach sticking around for more than 5 years is realistic. A loser won't get renewed and a winner would likely move on.

island eagle · December 26, 2008

So let's say hypothetically that we were to come across a head coach who got along with the players, administration, fan base and the media. This coach is winning 9-10 games every year, and UNT's starting to get some notice. The attendance at home games starts to grow towards the 30,000 mark. At $275,000 a year, would said coach stick around for a contract extension? I know that UNT has a limited athletic budget, so hoping for the million dollar contract isn't realistic at all. The question is whether a coach sticking around for more than 5 years is realistic. A loser won't get renewed and a winner would likely move on.

Those days seem gone. What we need is a Bill Yeoman, who loves the school and spends a successful career there because of that, despite having other offers. Unfortunately, we do not see many who have that kind of devotion anymore.

NT80 · December 26, 2008

So let's say hypothetically that we were to come across a head coach who got along with the players, administration, fan base and the media. This coach is winning 9-10 games every year, and UNT's starting to get some notice. The attendance at home games starts to grow towards the 30,000 mark. At $275,000 a year, would said coach stick around for a contract extension? I know that UNT has a limited athletic budget, so hoping for the million dollar contract isn't realistic at all. The question is whether a coach sticking around for more than 5 years is realistic. A loser won't get renewed and a winner would likely move on.

For a rising coach with a family to support, no, it's all about the $$. A re-cycled coach on perhaps his last job might stick around longer but if he wins 9-10 games for a couple years and is in good health a larger program will know it and easily top $275K in salary offer.

DeepGreen · December 26, 2008

The scenerio you are describing represents uncharted waters at North Texas. A successful coaching winning 9-10 games a year, new stadium, 30,000+ in attendance, 5-6+ years of success, and winning OOC games against goos BCS teams and bowling each year..........the North Texas fan base and Denton/Northern Texas community could really energize and provide the financial support needed to sustain this success and the coach that was responsible.

This is probably the dream of all fans of North Texas football. It can be done, it's just too bad that the administration constantly gets in the way and makes stupid decisions.

oldguystudent · December 26, 2008

The scenerio you are describing represents uncharted waters at North Texas.

Well of course it is, hence my use of the word hypothetically.

The North Texas fan base and Denton/Northern Texas community could really energize and provide the financial support needed to sustain this success and the coach that was responsible.

Well, they could, but would they? This isn't UT or even SMU in terms of long standing support. I think it would take more than multiple New Orleans Bowl wins to get the band wagoners coming 'round. To become the "Team of DFW" as someone once promised, I think it would take a decade of winning, a change of conference, and a couple bowl wins over BCS teams. No matter how good we get, the reality is that we're competing for fans with UT, A$M and the Cowboys.

it's just too bad that the administration constantly gets in the way and makes stupid decisions.

Based on the fact that the UC Irvine basketball team once went 25-5, I now know that even a broken clock is right twice a day. A good team will at some point in time be assembled by a good hire here even if by accident. The question is can we sustain it when it arrives.

UNTLifer · December 26, 2008

Well, no one has the patience to allow a coach to build a program in the first place, but...

...if everything occurred as in your post more money would be available to pay the HC. Plus, the new student fee can be raised anually and will bring in more money. So, it could happen with the right coach that likes being at NT.

drex · December 26, 2008

A long term coach will never happen at NT under current conditions. The possibility of NT actually hiring one of their own alumni to head the program is a pipe dream at this point. The only long term coach we will ever see is one who is one our own alumni who wants to build a program and grow with it. Anyone who believes NT will do this needs to see me about some land I have for sale in Florida at a good price.

mean green d · December 26, 2008

I don't know about keeping the coach longterm, but keeping the program going is wholly possible. Just look at our neighbors to the Sw in Fort Worth. Franchione got the ball rolling and a capable coach from his staff kept it going in Patterson. We can do the same thing here with capable coaches in the balannce. The Frogs are a good example for us.

GMG

emmitt01 · December 26, 2008

A long term coach will never happen at NT under current conditions. The possibility of NT actually hiring one of their own alumni to head the program is a pipe dream at this point. The only long term coach we will ever see is one who is one our own alumni who wants to build a program and grow with it. Anyone who believes NT will do this needs to see me about some land I have for sale in Florida at a good price.

Tis true. The only surefire way not to get hired by the NT athletic department is to list "University of North Texas" on your resume.

Now, if you're inept and list Southern Miss on the other hand....

Edited December 26, 2008 by emmitt01

UNT90 · December 26, 2008

UNT begins to win. Wins 9-10 games for three years, including victory over ranked opponent in last season of "Golden Boy" head coach. This would mobilize the fan base in the metroplex. People like a winner, just look at all the idiots that wear UT colors and cheer them on with zero affiliation with the school.

When this happens (being positive), Golden Boy moves on, but the program has already moved to a level of self-sufficiency. A new coach is hired, preferable one of the coordinators from Golden Boy's staff, since this person would have seen and assisted in the construction of the program. The program continues at the same or an improved level.

The blue print is there. See - TCU, Boise St., Tulsa

Cr1028 · December 26, 2008

I think the only way that would happen is if our fan base had patience enough to get behind a guy in his down years, I think a good man(like our current coach) would have a good spot in his heart and feel at home here. That will never happen here at good ol U of NT because we have a steak appetite and a hamburger helper wallet.

My hope that is if/when the current coaching staff turns things around that the bulk of you will retract your negative comments. In my mind, there was no better hire for our program in terms of recruiting, fanbase excitement, and building a stadium than Todd Dodge.

LoveMG · December 26, 2008

I think the only way that would happen is if our fan base had patience enough to get behind a guy in his down years, I think a good man(like our current coach) would have a good spot in his heart and feel at home here. That will never happen here at good ol U of NT because we have a steak appetite and a hamburger helper wallet.
My hope that is if/when the current coaching staff turns things around that the bulk of you will retract your negative comments. In my mind, there was no better hire for our program in terms of recruiting, fanbase excitement, and building a stadium than Todd Dodge.

how many down years must we endure before we are worthy?

Travis · December 26, 2008

Troy holds on to their guy. And they have success. So, I don't understand how we couldn't do the same with a coach.

Cr1028 · December 26, 2008

Troy holds on to their guy. And they have success. So, I don't understand how we couldn't do the same with a coach.

Search for "Eric Ramsey" and "Larry Blakeney" and you may find your answer.

UNTLifer · December 26, 2008

I think the only way that would happen is if our fan base had patience enough to get behind a guy in his down years, I think a good man(like our current coach) would have a good spot in his heart and feel at home here. That will never happen here at good ol U of NT because we have a steak appetite and a hamburger helper wallet.
My hope that is if/when the current coaching staff turns things around that the bulk of you will retract your negative comments. In my mind, there was no better hire for our program in terms of recruiting, fanbase excitement, and building a stadium than Todd Dodge.

You are absolutely correct, but it will never happen here because by the time one of our coaches achieves success they are so sick of our fanbase that they take the first offer that comes along. I know I would not want to stay at a school after being called "Golden Boy," or "The Savior," or "A High School Coach That Is In Over His Head.". Or is fed up with the accusations thrown at his own son after everyone celebrated Riley's signing. It is amazing to me that people compare our situation to teams in the SEC or teams with a history of success on the field, with their fanbase and with their donors, all things that we have lacked for years and still lack.

In the era of instant gratification we need the patience of Job.

Edited December 26, 2008 by UNTLifer

LoveMG · December 26, 2008

You are absolutely correct, but it will never happen here because by the time one of our coaches achieves success they are so sick of our fanbase that they take the first offer that comes along. I know I would not want to stay at a school after being called "Golden Boy," or "The Savior," or "A High School Coach That Is In Over His Head.". Or is fed up with the accusations thrown at his own son after everyone celebrated Riley's signing. It is amazing to me that people compare our situation to teams in the SEC or teams with a history of success on the field, with their fanbase and with their donors, all things that we have lacked for years and still lack.
In the era of instant gratification we need the patience of Job.

name any fan base in the world happy with a 3-21 coach. just one, please.

UNT90 · December 26, 2008

You are absolutely correct, but it will never happen here because by the time one of our coaches achieves success they are so sick of our fanbase that they take the first offer that comes along. I know I would not want to stay at a school after being called "Golden Boy," or "The Savior," or "A High School Coach That Is In Over His Head.". Or is fed up with the accusations thrown at his own son after everyone celebrated Riley's signing. It is amazing to me that people compare our situation to teams in the SEC or teams with a history of success on the field, with their fanbase and with their donors, all things that we have lacked for years and still lack.
In the era of instant gratification we need the patience of Job.

Come on, there is only one person on here making accusations about Riley, and its pretty clear that guy has a personal axe to grind. View any other message board, and you will see far worse, for teams and coaches that have performed much better. My "Golden Boy" reference had nothing to do with Dodge, but was a complimentary term used for a hypothetical situation.

I don't think we should aspire to be the same old UNT. I don't think we should even aspire to be Sun Belt Champs. My aspirations for UNT are greater than that. I don't think we should just close our eyes and hope everything turns out OK. Like someone else said, Think Big, Be Big.

Cr1028 · December 26, 2008

Come on, there is only one person on here making accusations about Riley, and its pretty clear that guy has a personal axe to grind. View any other message board, and you will see far worse, for teams and coaches that have performed much better. My "Golden Boy" reference had nothing to do with Dodge, but was a complimentary term used for a hypothetical situation.
I don't think we should aspire to be the same old UNT. I don't think we should even aspire to be Sun Belt Champs. My aspirations for UNT are greater than that. I don't think we should just close our eyes and hope everything turns out OK. Like someone else said, Think Big, Be Big.

Think big. Be disappointed. Baby steps.

oldguystudent · December 26, 2008

Think big. Be disappointed. Baby steps.

I don't know who you are, so this isn't meant to be a personal attack, but dude, that's a severely self limiting philosophy to have. Set goals, achieve them...on time. It's really amazing how much can be accomplished with a few simple goals.

Cr1028 · December 26, 2008

I don't know who you are, so this isn't meant to be a personal attack, but dude, that's a severely self limiting philosophy to have. Set goals, achieve them...on time. It's really amazing how much can be accomplished with a few simple goals.

I understand that but sometimes you have to take a step back before you step forward. You cannot set goals too lofty too soon. You don't want to set a goal of losing 100lbs because you will fail. If you set a goal of running or walking 5 miles a week, you may very well hit that 100lb goal eventually as you create more goals on your path. The program, the systems, the coaches, everything is completely different from when Coach Dickey left. It will take time for this to all come together. I won't lie, I was disappointed as heck this season. I even gave my season tickets away for one game because I was sick of the way we were getting blasted. The thing that changed my mind about this team was the heart and fire they showed against Arkansas State. The defense had a spark I hadn't seen all season. For this reason and the fact that we will have a new Special Teams coach, I have hope. A dedicated strength coach won't hurt either.

If I am wrong and we get blown out every game again next year, I will eat crow. Figuratively speaking of course, but I will own up to all of the I told you so that will be fired my way.

UNT90 · December 26, 2008

Think big. Be disappointed. Baby steps.

lets just keep doing what we've been doing. It has worked so well.

SilverEagle · December 26, 2008

UNT begins to win. Wins 9-10 games for three years, including victory over ranked opponent in last season of "Golden Boy" head coach. This would mobilize the fan base in the metroplex. People like a winner, just look at all the idiots that wear UT colors and cheer them on with zero affiliation with the school.
When this happens (being positive), Golden Boy moves on, but the program has already moved to a level of self-sufficiency. A new coach is hired, preferable one of the coordinators from Golden Boy's staff, since this person would have seen and assisted in the construction of the program. The program continues at the same or an improved level.
The blue print is there. See - TCU, Boise St., Tulsa

We had a chance to have this scenario when Hayden Fry left and recommended Bill Brashier as his replacement. This would have provided us with some consistency and potentially kept our program moving forward...although probably not as fast as Coach Fry had moved it. But when Fry made his recommendation the "powers that be" said that Brashier could just get in line like any other candidate. It was clear from that statement that the administration was not interested in anything that had to do with Hayden Fry....even though Brashier was a proven commodity...and a NT graduate. Brashier didn't have to take this insult, and followed Fry to Iowa.

Since then, the administration has made only one good hire for Head Coach....Corky Nelson. Considering the budget that he had to work with, plus the attitude of the administration, his record here is rather remarkable.

I have advocated a scenario like UNT90's for some time. It's really rather simple.

Hire an "up and coming" coach who has turned a lower level College program into a winner. When he has turned the North Texas program around, he'll get hired away from us. No problem. Hopefully the administration has profiled this guy's personality and style and has already identified the NEXT CANDIDATE. Hire the next guy, who takes us to yet the next level, and then, maybe, we'll have done enough fund-raising to match most offers from other schools.

OR, we hire the next up-and-comer and continue on our way.

TCU, Boise St., Tulsa, and Rice are good examples of this process.

BUT, before this scenario can work, you have to have the support staff (motivated fund raisers/promoters etc) to keep the fan interest up, and therefore keep the money flowing in. In keeping with the scenario that I have suggested for hiring a head coach, I'd suggest that we look for the next Jim Hobdy and Rick Spears to run the promotional side of our program. And, after meeting UNTCampbell, we could use a bunch of high energy/positive people like him in the athletic department as well.

December 26, 2008

I don't think that it's realistic to expect to have a long term coach at any Division 1-A university except for perhaps the top two dozen. Those I would consider ultimate destination stops. They pay $2 million per year and up but do not accept mediocrity (and mediocrity to them is anything less than 9-10 wins per season).

Under your scenario I believe that the coaching salary would double or triple but salary alone would not be enough to retain a highly successful coach. He would soon have an offer from the Michigans, Ohio States, etc. that he could not refuse.

An average home attendance of 30,000 would warrant stadium expansion and likely a spot in a higher profile league than the Sun Belt. At the worst, there would be coaches with good credentials applying to fill the vacancy. So having a successful long term coach would not be vital to the continuance of keeping the program at a high level.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · December 26, 2008

It's funny how the people who thought Dodge would be successful right off the bat and then jump to a Big 12 school now whine that he probably wouldn't stay forever because his 3-21 record is unappreciated.

NT80 · December 26, 2008

Think big. Be disappointed. Baby steps.

Baby steps here is 3 wins, truly sad. I don't think we could be more disappointed with things that have happened in football this past year. Some of the worst defensive stats in the history of the program, except for last year maybe. :rolleyes: If there is not meaningful progress this year, more than 3 wins, then wholesale changes must happen. As Baylor as shown, even they can have success with new leadership in the right places.