Turner Gill To Iowa State?

NT80 · December 17, 2008

A VALID argument of opposition is that if you go about firing a new HC after two years (deserved though it may be), then the message to a new coach is WIN IMMEDIATELY. And a guy going to his first HC gig might look at us as a current bottom-feeder in college football in every place where it matters and wonder why he the hell he would consider our school and let himself be put in a position to fail. And that is exactly what you do when you invite an assistant in here.

There are only 120 of these jobs available. There will be no problem attracting enough candidates. Honestly, not a knock on Dodge, but how could a new coach do any worse?

DeepGreen · December 17, 2008

Who gives a rats a$$ about Iowa State? This is a North Texas board.

eulessismore · December 17, 2008

Who gives a rats a$$ about Iowa State? This is a North Texas board.

Ah, there's the real question.

Monkeypox · December 18, 2008

Two points: 1) The message should be to WIN IMMEDIATELY. Why can't we aspire to that? Why do we have to just sit back and take losing? Not to mention, this is the message to just about every other college coach when he takes a HC job.

You can certainly aspire to that, but many inexperienced head coaches (assistants at big programs like Peveto) will look at our school and say "man, that's a pretty cruddy situation to step into, especially if i'm not even going to be given any time to install my system or experience growing pains, get paid a ridiculous sum, or be coaching in a premier conference." Now, that is not to say that the desire to rid ourselves of our current albatross is unwarranted, you simply have to accept that it's not all gonna be rainbows and candycanes. We're a freaking embarrassment and it's been an abject failure. But don't think that setting up a coahing carousel is any way to gain consistency and success, should we do what everyone wants, fire our current HC and install some random assistant coach just as likely to fail. And I disagree that the message is always to WIN IMMEDIATELY, bc sometimes people are aware that it's going to take a significant housecleaning before stability and consistent success can be achieved. It's not like coaches come in and don't want or expect to win games. Everyone involved is a competitor or they wouldn't be doing it. I'm just saying you HAVE to expect it to turn some coaches off if you don't seem willing to give them more than a couple of years. At some point the "it's a bad situation to try and coach in" becomes legitimate NOT because it's real, but because it's an easy perception to make given the last bit of forever here. A coaching carousel will only reinforce that.

2) Someone coming here knowing that we are a bottom feeder would also know that improvement would be that much easier. How many on this board would be happy with a 5 win season next year? How many with 4?
I think that if RV had decided to let Dodge go, coaches would have been beating down the door to get this job because of the upside/potential of this program.

Improvement isn't the same as success, and unlike the NFL, we don't get a draft. The constant harping of "the rich get richer" is pretty loud around these parts, and we aren't the rich. That inexperienced head coach is gonna look around and see the Schnellies and Blakeneys and the likes and think "okay, I have two years to take the absolute worst football team in Div 1A and win before I'm shown the door." And that guy knows if he DOES fail here, it's a quick trip to nowheresville. It was a problem with our school before Dickey, and it will be a problem after Dodge if we continue to shuffle through coaches.

UNT90 · December 18, 2008

You can certainly aspire to that, but many inexperienced head coaches (assistants at big programs like Peveto) will look at our school and say "man, that's a pretty cruddy situation to step into, especially if i'm not even going to be given any time to install my system or experience growing pains, get paid a ridiculous sum, or be coaching in a premier conference." Now, that is not to say that the desire to rid ourselves of our current albatross is unwarranted, you simply have to accept that it's not all gonna be rainbows and candycanes. We're a freaking embarrassment and it's been an abject failure. But don't think that setting up a coahing carousel is any way to gain consistency and success, should we do what everyone wants, fire our current HC and install some random assistant coach just as likely to fail. And I disagree that the message is always to WIN IMMEDIATELY, bc sometimes people are aware that it's going to take a significant housecleaning before stability and consistent success can be achieved. It's not like coaches come in and don't want or expect to win games. Everyone involved is a competitor or they wouldn't be doing it. I'm just saying you HAVE to expect it to turn some coaches off if you don't seem willing to give them more than a couple of years. At some point the "it's a bad situation to try and coach in" becomes legitimate NOT because it's real, but because it's an easy perception to make given the last bit of forever here. A coaching carousel will only reinforce that.
Improvement isn't the same as success, and unlike the NFL, we don't get a draft. The constant harping of "the rich get richer" is pretty loud around these parts, and we aren't the rich. That inexperienced head coach is gonna look around and see the Schnellies and Blakeneys and the likes and think "okay, I have two years to take the absolute worst football team in Div 1A and win before I'm shown the door." And that guy knows if he DOES fail here, it's a quick trip to nowheresville. It was a problem with our school before Dickey, and it will be a problem after Dodge if we continue to shuffle through coaches.

Why would anyone want the past to be the standard for this program? College coaches should be extremely competetive and should relish the challenge that is represented here. If they don't, I don't want them as a head coach. This whoa is us crap that I constantly see on here is complete BS. There is no reason that we should not be competeive with the TCU's and Tulsa's of the world. Please, can we set a higher standard for this program?

"We are what we think we are" - Dennis Green (Sort of)

Monkeypox · December 18, 2008

Why would anyone want the past to be the standard for this program? College coaches should be extremely competetive and should relish the challenge that is represented here. If they don't, I don't want them as a head coach. This whoa is us crap that I constantly see on here is complete BS. There is no reason that we should not be competeive with the TCU's and Tulsa's of the world. Please, can we set a higher standard for this program?

If anything, I was saying I DON'T want the past to be the standard. That is a past that involved a coach's shuffle and helped facilitate the ideas to the general public that 1) you can't win here and 2) even if you could, you won't be given long enough and 3) the program has NO idea what it's doing.

All I did was point out that coaches are NOT going to be eager to turn this thing around if they see they won't be given a chance to. Even a confident and competitive coach could feel like the situation here demands more than a couple of years, and there's little guarantee they'll get it. What you're saying is the equivalent of "HEY, the top athletes in the nation should come here because it's more of a challenge, and by choosing to be a backup at USC or UT or UAB they're just showing that they're not competitors!" Bottom line is they have career goals. Dodge is obviously in over his head and something needs to be done. We can certainly turn it around, and we can certainly get a quality coach, but WHOEVER IT IS will be a gamble, and then in two years people will be right back on here moaning about how we didn't hire Urban Meyer when we had the chance and instead we went with an assistant coach from a big school.

All I'm saying is be careful what you wish for, and point out potential negatives of constantly shuffling coaches, and I get "WHY DO YOU HATE NORTH TEXAS?!"

UNT90 · December 18, 2008

If anything, I was saying I DON'T want the past to be the standard. That is a past that involved a coach's shuffle and helped facilitate the ideas to the general public that 1) you can't win here and 2) even if you could, you won't be given long enough and 3) the program has NO idea what it's doing.
All I did was point out that coaches are NOT going to be eager to turn this thing around if they see they won't be given a chance to. Even a confident and competitive coach could feel like the situation here demands more than a couple of years, and there's little guarantee they'll get it. What you're saying is the equivalent of "HEY, the top athletes in the nation should come here because it's more of a challenge, and by choosing to be a backup at USC or UT or UAB they're just showing that they're not competitors!" Bottom line is they have career goals. Dodge is obviously in over his head and something needs to be done. We can certainly turn it around, and we can certainly get a quality coach, but WHOEVER IT IS will be a gamble, and then in two years people will be right back on here moaning about how we didn't hire Urban Meyer when we had the chance and instead we went with an assistant coach from a big school.
All I'm saying is be careful what you wish for, and point out potential negatives of constantly shuffling coaches, and I get "WHY DO YOU HATE NORTH TEXAS?!"

Never said that. I just think that this program is at a critical junction where we have the chance to be so much more than we have been, or to continue down a worse path than we have been. I don't have the answers. I hope Dodge is the answer. Not near as confident of that as I was 2 years ago.

But I do think that perspective coaching candidates would be lined up around the block to come here. The most important thing is making the RIGHT hire. I thought we did 2 years ago. I'm not so sure now.

And we should absolutely expect more from our football program and our athletic program in general.

NT80 · December 19, 2008

Never said that. I just think that this program is at a critical junction where we have the chance to be so much more than we have been, or to continue down a worse path than we have been. I don't have the answers. I hope Dodge is the answer. Not near as confident of that as I was 2 years ago.
But I do think that perspective coaching candidates would be lined up around the block to come here. The most important thing is making the RIGHT hire. I thought we did 2 years ago. I'm not so sure now.
And we should absolutely expect more from our football program and our athletic program in general.

Totally agree! Think Big, Be Big!