How Good Are We ?

calvin · December 11, 2008

I wish I knew the answer to this but I dont. I really thought coming into this year that we were going to be good and after 8 games, I still think that but I still dont know how good we are. I dont think we have played really good so far and I am waiting for us to play a complete game. But on the other hand, maybe we are not as good as I thought. Hopefully we will get it rolling soon so we can see how to judge this team. With that being said, we must be doing something right b/c we are 6-2.

SUMG · December 11, 2008

We've won every game that we should have....lost two that we were favored to lose (Okie State, Houston). And, I know we were underdogs to Indiana State and probably to Sam Houston....when we played them on the road. And yet, we won both those games.

So, I'm guessing the oddsmakers would have had us at 4-4 right now. We're 6-2. I'll take that.

Hopefully...we'll beat Houston Baptist to go 7-2. Then things start getting interesting...we go on the road, to two places where it's hard for us to win (ULL and UNO). Then we come home to play a team we haven't beaten in the last two years (UTA). I'm thinking we'll know a lot more about this team....after those three games.

But so far....so good.

Edited December 11, 2008 by SUMG

CMJ · December 11, 2008

I think we've played a few complete games. Complete does not equal perfect. We've clawed our way past acouple of good teams already.

How good are we? Time will tell. I think this is potentially JJ's best team, but ask me again in 3 months.

oldguystudent · December 11, 2008

Winning percentage wise, we're already guaranteed to be twice as good as football.

MDH · December 11, 2008

The Houston game really bothered me. I was hoping we'd play them close and maybe even pull off a W. I understand teams have off nights and I think that was one of them. If you look at the Okie St game, we lost by 12, in a more hostile environment and to a team that is considered to be pretty good in the big picture.

So how good are we? We're no Big Dance team unless we win the Belt but I do think we have a good shot at winning the Belt this year. GO MEAN GREEN!

oldguystudent · December 11, 2008

So how good are we? We're no Big Dance team unless we win the Belt but I do think we have a good shot at winning the Belt this year. GO MEAN GREEN!

If not, we should at least merit an NIT bid. I can't believe one wasn't extended last year.

Green Guy Bass · December 11, 2008

If not, we should at least merit an NIT bid. I can't believe one wasn't extended last year.

The NIT tends to take teams from bigger conferences, more established programs, or schools that travel well. We are none of these and that is why we stayed home. At least we are building a good reputation as a 20+ win team.

CMJ · December 11, 2008

The NIT tends to take teams from bigger conferences, more established programs, or schools that travel well. We are none of these and that is why we stayed home. At least we are building a good reputation as a 20+ win team.

We also didn't have a very good RPI last year. I think the NIT took no "at large" schools with an RPI over 100, and we finished last season with one in the 130's.

oldguystudent · December 11, 2008

We also didn't have a very good RPI last year. I think the NIT took no "at large" schools with an RPI over 100, and we finished last season with one in the 130's.

147 to be exact. I guess that would explain things.

CMJ · December 11, 2008

147 to be exact. I guess that would explain things.

141, just checked. :lol:

oldguystudent · December 11, 2008

141, just checked.

OK, you'll have to pardon the Rainman in me. This from ncaa.org

147 142 North Texas

The 147 is the final ranking. The 142 is the previous ranking.

So, yeah...definitely 147. Fifteen minutes 'til Wapner.

(And you wonder why I chose accounting?)

Edited December 11, 2008 by oldguystudent

CMJ · December 11, 2008

I was using realtimerpi's final ranking. Hmmmm, I guess they must've stopped updating it at some point? I wonder what the NCAA takes into consideration. Maybe they count the Tournaments(NCAA, NIT, CBI) in their calculations, because realtime quits updating after Selection Sunday.

Edited December 11, 2008 by CMJ

oldguystudent · December 11, 2008

I was using realtimerpi's final ranking. Hmmmm, I guess they must've stopped updating it at some point? I wonder what the NCAA takes into consideration. Maybe they count the Tournaments(NCAA, NIT, CBI) in their calculations, because realtime quits updating after Selection Sunday.

I was thinking the same thing, but wouldn't WKU's tournament run actually raise UNT's RPI then?

CMJ · December 11, 2008

I was thinking the same thing, but wouldn't WKU's tournament run actually raise UNT's RPI then?

Yes, but Oklahoma State lost in the 1st round of the NIT and USA & UTA lost in the first round of the NCAA. I think those were the 3 tournament schools we had on our schedule.

Or maybe I'm wrong and Realtime keeps updating the the NCAA doesn't? I'm not sure, I'll have to keep better track this year.

Edited December 11, 2008 by CMJ

untwillrise · December 11, 2008

We need energy! I Think we have the talent to win the title in the Belt. Our gaurds don't have the speed to beat the better gaurds in the league but I feel if we can get George and Hogans the ball in scoring position on the block and have them do what they can do we will be better. I love teams who can jack up the three but this team doesnt have it. Nobody has great range and with the line moved back i think it hurt White a lot and Niq keeps shooting from the girl's line for some reason.

If Dennis, White, and Thompson get hot at the same time we are the best team in the belt. If they are cold we look like we did at Houston.

bstnsportsfan3 · December 11, 2008

from what i have seen this year....we need the Big's to step up...if we are physical down low....we will be good, maybe even better then last year!

chrisfisher · December 11, 2008

We need energy! I Think we have the talent to win the title in the Belt. Our gaurds don't have the speed to beat the better gaurds in the league but I feel if we can get George and Hogans the ball in scoring position on the block and have them do what they can do we will be better. I love teams who can jack up the three but this team doesnt have it. Nobody has great range and with the line moved back i think it hurt White a lot and Niq keeps shooting from the girl's line for some reason.
If Dennis, White, and Thompson get hot at the same time we are the best team in the belt. If they are cold we look like we did at Houston.

I agree with most of your analysis. However, last season our guards were very accurate with the 3. They do have the range, but have been struggling at the 3 so far this season. I think this aspect of our game will improve through the season.

Green P1 · December 11, 2008

We need energy! I Think we have the talent to win the title in the Belt. Our gourds don't have the speed to beat the better gourds in the league but I feel if we can get George and Hogans the ball in scoring position on the block and have them do what they can do we will be better. I love teams who can jack up the three but this team doesn't have it. Nobody has great range and with the line moved back i think it hurt White a lot and Niq keeps shooting from the girl's line for some reason.
If Dennis, White, and Thompson get hot at the same time we are the best team in the belt. If they are cold we look like we did at Houston.

Yep, and when those guys are cold there's just no one at all on the bench worth giving a try......

Censored by Laurie · December 11, 2008

Yep, and when those guys are cold there's just no one at all on the bench worth giving a try......

These ellipsis suggest an incomplete thought...

Quoner · December 11, 2008

These ellipsis suggest an incomplete thought...

n--ot....nece..ssaril....y....

foutsrouts · December 11, 2008

I'm happy that we are 6-2, but I do think we have quite a few problems. I've been to most of the games this year and our opposition seems to be driving the lane at will against us. Our small guards have got to do a better job defensively because we can't just leave it up to our bigs when our opponents penetrate the lane. Offensively, we're just not doing anything great on a consistent basis. We're going to have to find a way to shoot the three on a more consistent basis if we are going to be more than just a "good" team. Good to see that TT may be making a move to become our "go to" guy. We're yet to really find out what McCoy can do, and with his size and athleticism, I would like to see what he can do on both ends of the floor. It bothers me that we have not yet been able to take a lead (other than Cameron) and run away with a game. The opponent always seems to find a way to get back into the game and take us to the wire. A blowout win would be nice. Hope it happens next Monday.

Censored by Laurie · December 11, 2008

I think we're pretty mediocre. Talent wise, we're on par with the top teams in the SBC...as well as pretty much every team in Texas save for UT, Baylor, Tech and maybe A&M...this statement includes Houston so now you should have a pretty good idea where just talent will take you.

People keep mentioning that we're lacking size inside and that will prove to be our fatal flaw this season. Sure, I would love Odufuwa to be 6'10" 250...or I would love for our 6'10" 250 guy to be Odufuwa (interpret that how you will) but we've won half the total rebounding battles, tied another and were competitive in 2 others. We're also in the top tier of the league in terms of blocked shots...and in terms of Belt scorers you have to go to number 20 and FIU's Nikola Gaecesa to find someone over 6'8"...and he prefers to stay outside. (3 other forwards in the top 20, Yates @ MTSU, Davis @ USA and Lewis @ UD). I'm not nearly as concerned with the front court as I am other areas.

Like PG. Right now it isn't Josh...he has the handle, but lacks the understanding and in some cases want to make the right pass. Dominique is coming on as a distributor...and a big key to the season will be his continued development as a pass-first 1. If JJ continues to be satisfied with Josh on the ball for 35 minutes a night this team is in significant trouble.

Another, less tangible, cause for concern seems to be a lack of leadership/glue. Take a look at JJ's first to seasons...15 wins in 2001, 7 in 2002...the 02 lost 2 contributors from 01- Unjel Masters, who you significantly upgraded with Michael DeGrate...and Kenneth Mangrum, your do-everything guy, shut down defender and vocal leader. Certainly I'm not suggesting Red was responsible for 8 wins...but his not being there significantly changed the team's complextion. The past few seasons we've had guys like Isaac Hines, Rich Young and Ben Bell...guys capable of bigger scoring numbers (esp. Young) but who sacrificed their individual numbers for the betterment of the team. Find that guy on this team. We have no real role players...and you combine that with suspect PG play and its a remedy for dissaster.

I love JJ...and he's done much to build arguably UNT's best basketball program...I mean our typical starting 5 are 4 sophmores and a junior...the future is bright...but I question whether or not this is the season unless these very important areas see improvement.

Keith7 · December 11, 2008

I miss Rich Young

UNTLifer · December 11, 2008

I miss Kenneth Lyons.

GrandGreen · December 11, 2008

Lot of doubt for a 6-2 team who has greatly improved the toughness of their non-conference schedule with only one bad game thus far. I wonder about all these leadership questions, not really disputing that NT has a problem; but I do wonder how anyone not on the team would really know. Of course most are just speculating based on what they have seen, the one area I think NT is having difficulty with is just deciding who gets the minutes. This team may not have the most talented starting lineup in the Belt, but I can't imagine any team that is deeper. Not starting right now are Dennis, a pre-season second team all belt; McCoy, probably most athletic and best 3 point shooter thus far, and Tremial, agruably NT's most complete front court player. I think Howerton and Stewart are best used as spot players and Magrum is an unkown at this point, but you could make a case for any of the other players as being starters.

Three point shooting is not a problem. NT is hitting 36.3% which is 102 out of 330 teams. This is off from last years team which were number 12 in the nation shooting 39.8%. White is definitely in a shooting slump and Dennis and Thompson started off slow but have came on strong in the last few games. Statistically, the problem is defense were NT ranks 306th. This is partially due to the schedule, but it does point to an area that needs improvement. I think part of the defensive issue is due to playing a lot of small guard lineups and NT not having a real strong defensive presense in the paint to keep opponent's taller guards from driving to the basket.

NT doesn't have a real around the basket scoring threat like Wooden when he was healthy, but Hogans and Tremial are coming on. Odufawa is leading the Belt in rebounding despite having two off games in a row. Stewart is a tenacious defender and Howerton is effective against bigger slower posts. I think this front court will be much better than last year when Wooden only had a handful of games when in shape and healthy.

As far as the point guard, it is easy based on White's play the last few games, to ague that he does not deserve the minutes he is getting. White has only hit 6 of 27 from the field in the last three games, and Johnson has clearly been the better player. However, teams remain focused on White, and that opens up other players and eventually White will get his shoot back. IMO, White must get minutes and as good as Johnson has been: I can't find fault with JJ's rotation. He has played both White and Johnson at point and played them together for extended minutes, similar to how he used Bell and White last year. With Johnson and White both in the game, NT is giving up a lot of height but gain a lot of quickness. I think this works well for limited minutes but most teams quickly adjust and have been able to take advantage on NT's defensive end.

Edited December 11, 2008 by GrandGreen