What Are You Doing To Help?

untcampbell · December 9, 2008

UNTLifer, Charlie, Old Timer, et al upholders of faith and fairness (you know who you are):

You are not allowed to be optimistic. You must refrain from posting anything positive in a valiant attempt to counter the vitriol. Anything you post will be torn to shreds, without regard to validity or fact.

You are cannon fodder for the posters who, inexplicably, continue their mission to rip this program apart, to internally tear it down (and spare me the "program is tearing itself down" retort...the negative "fan" base ain't helping).

Example: We get a recruit, and the first post following the announcement is a WTF....nice derail, "fan."

On the scoreboard, Nattering Nabobs of Negatism are definitely winning. Thanks to you boys for spoiling the shutout.

So if no one else will answer the question, I will ask the N's: "What are you doing to help?"

Flame away, fans!

gmg

Scott Campbell

Flower Mound, TX

Class of 1982

The Fake Lonnie Finch · December 9, 2008

Demanding better than status quo. No more money for the sham hires. Throwing money and time at an organization never makes sense either in amateur athletics or business. No more money until the lies and sham hires end. Once the school is seriously about football again, I'll be serious about football again. Until then, it is our duty to point out the futility of the status quo.

untgeorge · December 9, 2008

UNTLifer, Charlie, Old Timer, et al upholders of faith and fairness (you know who you are):
You are not allowed to be optimistic. You must refrain from posting anything positive in a valiant attempt to counter the vitriol. Anything you post will be torn to shreds, without regard to validity or fact.
You are cannon fodder for the posters who, inexplicably, continue their mission to rip this program apart, to internally tear it down (and spare me the "program is tearing itself down" retort...the negative "fan" base ain't helping).
Example: We get a recruit, and the first post following the announcement is a WTF....nice derail, "fan."
On the scoreboard, Nattering Nabobs of Negatism are definitely winning. Thanks to you boys for spoiling the shutout.
So if no one else will answer the question, I will ask the N's: "What are you doing to help?"
Flame away, fans!
gmg
Scott Campbell
Flower Mound, TX
Class of 1982

Bought season tickets since 1971.

Contributor since about 1980. You can find my name in the football program.

Facilities donor. You can find that in the program, too.

Life member alumni association. Past member of board of alumni association.

Past member of several university committees including accounting dept alum board.

Member of fund raising committee for athletic center.

So Scott: is it ok if I express my opinion? And, pray tell, since I told you what I do, what are you doing to help?

oldguystudent · December 9, 2008

Casual observer since September of 2008 with no history whatsoever with UNT or its athletic program. You can find my name on the government doll...er...uh...student loan list. I suppose the little things like getting into in-class debates with professors and students over the stadium vote and swaying them to our side don't matter because such actions don't come with a signature and a check. I suppose getting my classmates to attend games when they never have in the past don't count either because the revenue UNT receives from that is well below six figures. I suppose being on a constant campaign to educate my fellow students as to why a viable athletic program matters doesn't count because you can't write that off on your tax returns.

The fact that I literally created the student section at basketball games and tirelessly harassed and worked with the AD to bring a student vote that resurrected the baseball program at my alma mater doesn't matter because my alma mater isn't UNT -- yet.

Guess that renders me without title to an opinion.

I too think that the opinions stated here at gmg are sometimes a little over the line, but it's a bunch of anonymous people posting on a message board. I spent some time on the LSU boards last spring before Irvine went out there. In spite of having one of the most powerful athletic programs in the country that had just come off a national freaking championship in football and a final four appearance in basketball those guys were exponentially more critical of their program than anyone here. It's the nature of the message board beast. If you as an alumnus let that get to you, then you need to get out to more games and come hang out with us commoners. In spite of the sometimes caustic statements made on this board (again, under false names and the supposed security of anonymity), just about everybody I've met in real life from this forum is a stand up person who is a die hard fan of UNT athletics (well, the jury's still out on some of those guys I tailgate with).

Here's the bottom line as I see it. Since coming to campus in late August I've had the good fortune to meet a great number of people from this message board of all levels of donation (and I do mean all levels). I've met a lot of the players, and most of the athletic staff. Most compelling is that I've met a lot of the athletes' parents. It's really something to see the pride in those parents' eyes when they tell you about their kid, his jersey number, what position he plays, what he studies. In the end, when the chips are down and the cards are turned over, we've got a great community of good friends and a group of kids getting an education, many of whom wouldn't have the opportunity otherwise. That's what will keep me coming back to UNT year after year.

In the mean time, I'll take my shots at what I see to be some poor strategic decisions, but I'll still be back next week cheering in the stands.

Oldguystudent -- present dirt poor graduate student and tailgating nut, future donor to the program.

H-towngreen · December 9, 2008

Demanding better than status quo. No more money for the sham hires. Throwing money and time at an organization never makes sense either in amateur athletics or business. No more money until the lies and sham hires end. Once the school is seriously about football again, I'll be serious about football again. Until then, it is our duty to point out the futility of the status quo.

So the stadium thing doesn't show the school being serious about football?

December 9, 2008

Scott, I've known you for more than twenty years, George longer than that, and Old Timer for more than fifty years. All of you have been great and loyal alumni. I know many more posters on this board that are some of the most diehard alums in existence. Good guys all. But each has varying degrees of positiveness about the program. And each has the right to express their opinion; especially those that have truly supported the university and its athletics over the years.

I commend you for keeping a positive attitude while our athletic existence, or at least football, is in a turmoil. It would be great if we all could see only the pony without all of the horse manure that it leaves behind. There are a few that I've only seen negatism from but the vast majority applaud the good things that have happened and speak out against the bad.

Make no mistake, there is plenty of bad to naysay. This is perhaps the most crucial time in our (athletic) existence. The good students have just given the program life by supporting the building of a new stadium. Unfortunately, it coincides with the worst stretch of uncompetiveness in our history in my opinion. That span covers covers more than 600 games for me, at least a fourth of which I have personally attended. I would like to say that this is mere blip on the total radar of the program but I have deep worries about the future of this program. We need to be having the greatest improvement for stadium donors and fan interest and instead we are in our worst decline. I hope that we can turn this losing around next year because I think that's about all that we can afford. If next year is as bad as the past four we'll see attendance and financial support dwindle big time. We've never been blessed with the amount of support that a university of our size and quality deserve but that is slowly changing. Let us not lose momentum.

The best analogy is that we stand at the crossroads. Both our fans and our team have to dig a little deeper in all of the ways possible. Too much is at stake to bail out now but we must keep the pressure on all concerned so that we can succeed. Where there is concern, it should be voiced so that we can be aware and to our best extent correct the situation. Abandoning ship is the only negatism that I detest. To voice concern, or in some cases disagreement, I don't see as negative.

Mean Green 93-98 · December 9, 2008

While I believe a true fan can still express disagreement with the coaches/AD, I think untcampbell makes a fair point. What does that say to a kid that signs with North Texas when he sees that the first thing the North Texas faithful say about his signing is "WTF"? The kid has committed the next four years of his life to helping the program that means so much to each of us. On the other hand, the repeated "bare cupboard" statements have probably been repeated enough by this time. Maybe we can try to direct our criticisms a little more carefully.

stebo · December 9, 2008

I see both sides but this is recruiting season and during recruiting season, we should argue behind closed doors. Argue away! But do it in the VIP lounge, ok? And Lonnie - we know that you hate all things UNT right now - I think it is just commenting on every single move that gets people a little disgruntled. I swear, Dodge could sign a 4 star recruit and I would completely expect a post from you stating that it wasn't enough... or that the kid should go somewhere else if he was smart... or that one signing should not save Dodge's job. On the other hand - a lot of what you post is right on the money. So I say spew it all out, get it out- debate the details down to the very last bit... but can we do it on the VIP board? At least for the next two months? It was this type of bickering that started the annual flag football game, lol. I have seen this before and I am sure I will see it many more times over the next 50 years of my life. I know that you all will still be on here and I will, too. That is what the recruits need to know - that we have passionate fans that CARE and will fight for their school (good or bad)... putting down a 17 year old's decision really does nothing to help our program. Again - you can argue with me about this, but let's take it to the VIP board, ok? No need to air our dirty laundry in public, there is plenty of dirty launfry in every day news.

NT80 · December 9, 2008

One can support the program but still be realistic enough to know what is fair to expect and what is not acceptable. I expect us to be competative; allowing the most points scored in the history of our program and any 1-A team this season is not acceptable. Kitties and rainbows are cute but losing 77-20 to Rice et al is not cute, it is embarrassing to the school and should be to any true fan! Expect better of yourself and your football program.

Edited December 9, 2008 by NT80

LAZER · December 9, 2008

I too think that the opinions stated here at gmg are sometimes a little over the line, but it's a bunch of anonymous people posting on a message board. I spent some time on the LSU boards last spring before Irvine went out there. In spite of having one of the most powerful athletic programs in the country that had just come off a national freaking championship in football and a final four appearance in basketball those guys were exponentially more critical of their program than anyone here. It's the nature of the message board beast. If you as an alumnus let that get to you, then you need to get out to more games and come hang out with us commoners. In spite of the sometimes caustic statements made on this board (again, under false names and the supposed security of anonymity), just about everybody I've met in real life from this forum is a stand up person who is a die hard fan of UNT athletics(well, the jury's still out on some of those guys I tailgate with).

that hurts, I thought we were all friends......

oldguystudent · December 9, 2008

that hurts, I thought we were all friends......

This from the man who places higher priority on his school work than on his attendance to game day!

NCMeanGreen · December 9, 2008

UNTLifer, Charlie, Old Timer, et al upholders of faith and fairness (you know who you are):
You are not allowed to be optimistic. You must refrain from posting anything positive in a valiant attempt to counter the vitriol. Anything you post will be torn to shreds, without regard to validity or fact.
You are cannon fodder for the posters who, inexplicably, continue their mission to rip this program apart, to internally tear it down (and spare me the "program is tearing itself down" retort...the negative "fan" base ain't helping).
Example: We get a recruit, and the first post following the announcement is a WTF....nice derail, "fan."
On the scoreboard, Nattering Nabobs of Negatism are definitely winning. Thanks to you boys for spoiling the shutout.
So if no one else will answer the question, I will ask the N's: "What are you doing to help?"
Flame away, fans!
gmg
Scott Campbell
Flower Mound, TX
Class of 1982

How dare you sir...how DARE you!!! :angry:

Green Mean · December 9, 2008

Accountability and results are expected in any and every job. The same goes with Todd Dodge. It is time for this program to make a turnaround. You want your fans to whine or bitch because those are the same ones donating to the program, attending the games, buying the merchandise etc. All we want is accountability. If an alum bitches but doesn't donate to the program then he/she still has a right to say whatever they want because they are still an alum and they have paid their dues to the school at some point. Todd Dodge has shown absolutely NOTHING in his two years here and many people are just okay with it and want to see him back. How about accountability for once about this program. I dont want people to treat this program any differently than any other. You are only going to get results based on what you expect of yourselves and/or this program. I admire the long time fans but they are no different than new fans that are bitching on this crappy football program because the only thing people want to see is accountability and results.

UNTBill · December 9, 2008

YOU sir, are a douche bag.

That sir, is not a very appropriate response. Is that the only input you have?

UNT90 · December 9, 2008

Accountability and results are expected in any and every job. The same goes with Todd Dodge. It is time for this program to make a turnaround. You want your fans to whine or bitch because those are the same ones donating to the program, attending the games, buying the merchandise etc. All we want is accountability. If an alum bitches but doesn't donate to the program then he/she still has a right to say whatever they want because they are still an alum and they have paid their dues to the school at some point. Todd Dodge has shown absolutely NOTHING in his two years here and many people are just okay with it and want to see him back. How about accountability for once about this program. I dont want people to treat this program any differently than any other. You are only going to get results based on what you expect of yourselves and/or this program. I admire the long time fans but they are no different than new fans that are bitching on this crappy football program because the only thing people want to see is accountability and results.

Amen

SilverEagle · December 9, 2008

Scott, I've known you for more than twenty years, George longer than that, and Old Timer for more than fifty years. All of you have been great and loyal alumni. I know many more posters on this board that are some of the most diehard alums in existence. Good guys all. But each has varying degrees of positiveness about the program. And each has the right to express their opinion; especially those that have truly supported the university and its athletics over the years.
I commend you for keeping a positive attitude while our athletic existence, or at least football, is in a turmoil. It would be great if we all could see only the pony without all of the horse manure that it leaves behind. There are a few that I've only seen negatism from but the vast majority applaud the good things that have happened and speak out against the bad.
Make no mistake, there is plenty of bad to naysay. This is perhaps the most crucial time in our (athletic) existence. The good students have just given the program life by supporting the building of a new stadium. Unfortunately, it coincides with the worst stretch of uncompetiveness in our history in my opinion. That span covers covers more than 600 games for me, at least a fourth of which I have personally attended. I would like to say that this is mere blip on the total radar of the program but I have deep worries about the future of this program. We need to be having the greatest improvement for stadium donors and fan interest and instead we are in our worst decline. I hope that we can turn this losing around next year because I think that's about all that we can afford. If next year is as bad as the past four we'll see attendance and financial support dwindle big time. We've never been blessed with the amount of support that a university of our size and quality deserve but that is slowly changing. Let us not lose momentum.
The best analogy is that we stand at the crossroads. Both our fans and our team have to dig a little deeper in all of the ways possible. Too much is at stake to bail out now but we must keep the pressure on all concerned so that we can succeed. Where there is concern, it should be voiced so that we can be aware and to our best extent correct the situation. Abandoning ship is the only negatism that I detest. To voice concern, or in some cases disagreement, I don't see as negative.

First of all Scott, thanks for the Beer at the ArkSt game.

And to everyone. I regard the bolded part of GEO's post to be very on-target. I also regard some of his statements to be "The Canary in the Coal mine". We need to be very concerned.

UNTLifer · December 9, 2008

Demanding better than status quo. No more money for the sham hires. Throwing money and time at an organization never makes sense either in amateur athletics or business. No more money until the lies and sham hires end. Once the school is seriously about football again, I'll be serious about football again. Until then, it is our duty to point out the futility of the status quo.

What lies?

Who says the school isn't serious about football?

Maybe you feel it is your duty to point out the futility of the status quo, but is it needed on almost every thread, and are we, the diehard fans, the appropriate people to be targeting with your anger?

I agree that we should demand better than the status quo, I just think Dodge should be given time. How much? Next year should there should be marked improvement across the board. I, too, went to the Rice game and witnessed the worst North Texas effort in my 40 years of following the team, and that was extremely discouraging. Considering all things, I've just grown tired of every post being highjacked with posts that say we should fire Dodge, RV's a liar, the university isn't serious etc...

Quoner · December 9, 2008

What lies?
Who says the school isn't serious about football?
Maybe you feel it is your duty to point out the futility of the status quo, but is it needed on almost every thread, and are we, the diehard fans, the appropriate people to be targeting with your anger?
I agree that we should demand better than the status quo, I just think Dodge should be given time. How much? Next year should there should be marked improvement across the board. I, too, went to the Rice game and witnessed the worst North Texas effort in my 40 years of following the team, and that was extremely discouraging. Considering all things, I've just grown tired of every post being highjacked with posts that say we should fire Dodge, RV's a liar, the university isn't serious etc...

I'm not getting involved too much because I agree with the desire to stop arguing the same things over and over again, but if you make a post and someone continues to challenge you and/or takes shots about what you said in multiple threads, aren't you going to want to stand back up for your point (see me and eulesseagle or you and TFLF.) Isn't that different than just posting craziness with an agenda out of nowhere (see Playmaker?)

It all goes back to boredom, stubbornness, and not-sees.

yyz28 · December 9, 2008

I am getting REALLY sick and tired of this type of BS thread.

Who the HELL do you think you are, Scott, to come on here and tell us who DO support this program, DO go to every home game (and some away games), DO try and give what they can that we don't have every right to say what we feel about this program, where it is and where it is headed? I really don't get this. This has got to be the 3rd or 4th post I've seen from various members with the same tone. "I'm a better/more important supporter because I don't post negative things, and those who do don't care for the program properly". This ia an utter crock, and it must stop. If you don't agree with negative posts, then voice your opinion and counter them, or don't read them. Don't come on here and attack and belittle those who have ABSOLUTELY earned the right to complain and critique this program because they have a different opinion than you or choose to voice it publically.

Well, opinions are like... ...I think you get my point.

The people who OWN and OPERATE this board are the ONLY group of people who should be making judgements about what is posted ON THIS BOARD - but even then, the weight of their opinion only carries to the boundaries of this board. If supporters of this program want to vent and discuss and post negative throughts about this program elsewhere or in company, then that is their RIGHT, earned through whatever support they have given this institution, and CERTAINLY if they are an Alumni.

I'm sorry for my tone, but I'm really frustrated with posts like this. Putting our heads in the sand and pretenting it isn't going on and acting like the recruits won't know it's going on if they don't read a member's negative comments is just silly, and frankly, counter productive.

LittleMeanGreenMan · December 9, 2008

That sir, is not a very appropriate response. Is that the only input you have?

Yes, that is all I have to offer.

It seems half of my posts are deleted, but we shall give this one a shot.

I don't know why people think our students should be so gung ho about our program. They spend their lives watching Big 12 and SEC action on the tube, wearing UT, A&M, and OU gear to school, etc. Then, they go to college. Perhaps for monetary reasons, academic reasons, or specific interests, they end up at UNT. They go to meangreensports.com prior to arriving on campus to check out the sports. "I think UNT has a football team, lets check it out" Upon arriving, they see are dismal record and basically horrifying rap sheet over the past 4 seasons.

Said student then begins to wonder, "should i even go to any games" His buddies drag him out of the dorm for that first home game. Excitement fills the air for the first college football experience. Three hours later, we lose by 40 to Tulsa. Three months later, we are 1-11, 2-10, take your pick..

The student is demoralized. Over Christmas break while enjoying a few beers and sports talk with his pals, his buddies that went to Tech, UT, OU, OSU, hell even Baylor give him shit for his football team. Already only a casual observer due to the fact that he may have gone to ONE game after that home opener beat down, the student shruggs it off, throws back on his OU shirt, and is forever not a fan of NT football.

Unfortunately, said student is already so beat down by football, he doesn't even bother attending a basketball game.

This is in no way my college experience, so save your jokes. What I am trying to say is this: Here at NT, the strong survive, the other stop caring. It takes a true fan. You either are you aren't.

Stop making threads such as this that question people. More than likely, if they are takign the time to read this board and shed their opinions on things, they don't need to be questioned.

As far as non-students go, people give what they can. Times are tough, so don't call people out about donations or brag about the one you are able to make.

People do what they can. No need to plea and beg them to be fans. If they want to support their alma mater by attending a game or making a donation, or even listening to a radio broadcast then GREAT! FANTASTIC! If they don't, then who cares. I won't lose any sleep over it and neither should you.

Edited December 9, 2008 by LittleMeanGreenMan

mad dog · December 9, 2008

Insofar as what is "allowed on this board," I will say the following:

* Civil sports discussion on the sports-specific board (football, basketball, non-unt, etc) is fine.

* Disagreeing is fine.

* Debate over issues is fine.

* Personal attacks/insults/deragatory insinuations are not. If you even think you might possibly be banned for a comment, save everyone the headache and delete it.

* Remember that we all want the best for North Texas, in all things. No regular poster on this board is "the enemy."

Now, I will sign off,

Because it is nearing five,

And i must leave work.