How Innovative Is Todd Dodge's Offensive Mind?

MeanGreenZen · December 6, 2008

Since UNT is at a competitive disadvantage in the college football world, shouldn't it seek to succeed "Moneyball" style by finding the NEXT innovative offensive system instead of trying to be "ME TOO" with the spread?

Texas, Tx Tech, Baylor, SMU, Rice, Houston (just off the top of my head) are all running similar versions of the spread. What is special about us? How can we succeed picking through the leftover recruits who fit into the spread? Why not install a different type of offense that defenses ARE NOT used to seeing every week?

The spread is so successful because it was different. It is not different anymore. The New England Patriots have been so successful in the NFL because their offensive and defensive systems value players differently than other NFL teams. They can pick players off the scrap heap for cheap who fit perfectly into their system.

If UNT was running a different type of system than everyone else, we would have the opportunity to target recruits with different skill-sets than the recruits being targeted by schools that consistently beat us in recruiting battles. UNT could target undervalued recruits that fit into our DIFFERENT system.

SMU had it right last year when they unsuccessfully tried to hire Paul Johnson (who runs the triple-option, a radically DIFFERENT version of the spread everyone else runs). Georgia Tech went 9-3 and Navy went 7-4 this year with the triple-option despite suffering from competitive disadvantages compared to their peers (of course, they are not as disadvantaged as North Texas.)

My point is North Texas can't compete straight up with other D1 schools in the state and win. We have to be DIFFERENT. Our current offense was adopted with the intention of being different, but it is really the same as everyone else.

In 2003 Jerry Moore just wrapped up a 7-4 season at Appalachian State. Unsatisfied, Moore scrapped his I-formation offense in favor of the spread and was rewarded by winning three straight Division I-AA national championships.

It is time for Todd Dodge to realize his spread offense is not going to make North Texas special. It is time to see if Todd Dodge's offensive mind is innovative enough to come up with something else.

Here is the best article I have ever read on the spread offense and what makes it work ...

http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/colle...1s15spread.html

greenminer · December 6, 2008

Things are cyclical.

The triple option is about the only thing that has stood the test of time.

Green Mean · December 6, 2008

A program needs to be solid from top to bottom to have a chance. I would personally like to see NT to build a model like TCU where defense is the primary emphasis/strength in football. If you have a stout badass defense you will win a hell of a lot of games including ones against lower rung BCS schools. Look at the great NT defense during the bowl run...they won games primarily with a stellar defense and a very good running game. I'm not the biggest fan of the spread because unless you are an OU or top notch BCS school, I dont think it will win you you games for the long haul and/or the "big games". Obviously there are exceptions but I am talking in general terms. Dodge may be a pretty decent offensive minded guy but I have yet to be convinced that he can do it at this level at this point in his coaching career.

FirefightnRick · December 6, 2008

Navy went 7-4 this year with the triple-option despite suffering from competitive disadvantages compared to their peers (of course, they are not as disadvantaged as North Texas.)

I agree with most of your post but the above because not only does Navy have to recruit someone with talent, they then must find the kid willing to go through their academy and then put in 4 years to the armed forces after they are done. I don't have the percentages but I can imagine their recruiting base, although nation wide, is tiny considering who they have to bring in. Special people for a special job, no doubt.

What I loved about Corky was that he ran every kind of offense there was during any one game. I see no reason we couldn't utilise something similar as well. As I have posted before, in '88 Scott Davis threw for over 400 yards against Texas, then in 1990 ran for over 200 against SMU.

Rick

oldguystudent · December 6, 2008

What was our final points allowed per game average?

Funny, I couldn't find any similar pictures with O-fence.

Seriously. Teams are ringing us up for 50 points in the first half then sending out the kids from the short bus in the second and we're worried about our offense?

NCMeanGreen · December 6, 2008

Since UNT is at a competitive disadvantage in the college football world, shouldn't it seek to succeed "Moneyball" style by finding the NEXT innovative offensive system instead of trying to be "ME TOO" with the spread?
Texas, Tx Tech, Baylor, SMU, Rice, Houston (just off the top of my head) are all running similar versions of the spread. What is special about us? How can we succeed picking through the leftover recruits who fit into the spread? Why not install a different type of offense that defenses ARE NOT used to seeing every week?
The spread is so successful because it was different. It is not different anymore. The New England Patriots have been so successful in the NFL because their offensive and defensive systems value players differently than other NFL teams. They can pick players off the scrap heap for cheap who fit perfectly into their system.
If UNT was running a different type of system than everyone else, we would have the opportunity to target recruits with different skill-sets than the recruits being targeted by schools that consistently beat us in recruiting battles. UNT could target undervalued recruits that fit into our DIFFERENT system.
SMU had it right last year when they unsuccessfully tried to hire Paul Johnson (who runs the triple-option, a radically DIFFERENT version of the spread everyone else runs). Georgia Tech went 9-3 and Navy went 7-4 this year with the triple-option despite suffering from competitive disadvantages compared to their peers (of course, they are not as disadvantaged as North Texas.)
My point is North Texas can't compete straight up with other D1 schools in the state and win. We have to be DIFFERENT. Our current offense was adopted with the intention of being different, but it is really the same as everyone else.
In 2003 Jerry Moore just wrapped up a 7-4 season at Appalachian State. Unsatisfied, Moore scrapped his I-formation offense in favor of the spread and was rewarded by winning three straight Division I-AA national championships.
It is time for Todd Dodge to realize his spread offense is not going to make North Texas special. It is time to see if Todd Dodge's offensive mind is innovative enough to come up with something else.
Here is the best article I have ever read on the spread offense and what makes it work ...
http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/colle...1s15spread.html

Well, that is a good point...although I am certain many of us thought we were getting an innovative offensive mind. Maybe that is the problem, there was a gross assumption that TD could bring a unique product to UNT? Maybe our naivete' got the better of us, no??

So, this is where we are at, namely hoping a coach who brought a lame-duck product...who is in over his head...who does not have the experience enough to know where to go from here...with all of his HS experience...can bring something "fresh" to College Football???

Naive???

MeanGreenZen · December 7, 2008

I agree with most of your post but the above because not only does Navy have to recruit someone with talent, they then must find the kid willing to go through their academy and then put in 4 years to the armed forces after they are done. I don't have the percentages but I can imagine their recruiting base, although nation wide, is tiny considering who they have to bring in. Special people for a special job, no doubt.
What I loved about Corky was that he ran every kind of offense there was during any one game. I see no reason we couldn't utilise something similar as well. As I have posted before, in '88 Scott Davis threw for over 400 yards against Texas, then in 1990 ran for over 200 against SMU.
Rick

Navy is certainly at a competitive disadvantage for the reasons you mentioned, but remember: Navy also has strengths to play to: a HIGHLY valuable degree, a wonderful tradition, a nationwide fanbase, they can also get around the NCAA scholarship limitations easier than non-service academies and they even have a JV team to develop players.

My point is: Navy is different. They cannot land the top tier of talent (just like North Texas, but for different reasons) so they installed a system that does not require the top tier of talent. Their system values a different type of player than Notre Dame, USC, Texas, etc therefore they are able to actually find those players that make their system work.

North Texas is running the same system as everyone else in the state and while we are in the most fertile recruiting hotbed in the country, it is also the most picked-through recruiting area in the country. And unfortunately, for many different reasons that we are trying to correct, North Texas is low man on the totem pole when it comes to where recruits chose to play. So let's find a offensive system that values a specific type of player who might not be coveted by another school, but who, in the right situation, can defeat that TOP 100 all-everything recruit who is being signed by our competitors.

Edited December 7, 2008 by MG Insurance Pro

Green Dozer · December 7, 2008

We are in the hot bed of recruits. If you were make a law where no Texas kids were allowed to play college ball at OU, then they would not be headed to Miami for Big Game Bob's 4th National Champion ship game. I do not think it is the offensive scheme or defensive scheme, Dodge or Deloach. I believe it is the fact we cannot get the athletes in here to compete right now regardless of what system we are running. And go ahead and throw that our athletic budget is on par with other programs in our conference. No, it does come down to our lack of first class facilities, i.e. stadium, the conference we are in, other perks for our players, etc. Until those things change, a debate or at least one very synonymous like this will continue. Unfortunately, there are a lot of Craig Miller types that went to UNT and do not care what happens to this program. I do not understand why people think this thing can continue to be run with cheap ass glue holding it together.

Quoner · December 7, 2008

My point is: Navy is different. They cannot land the top tier of talent (just like North Texas, but for different reasons) so they installed a system that does not require the top tier of talent. Their system values a different type of player than Notre Dame, USC, Texas, etc therefore they are able to actually find those players that make their system work.

They also can't have huge linemen on either side of the ball because of the other physical requirements, meaning that speed and discipline is at a premium and it can only take you so far when you are up against a team with similar speed and a bigger line. That's why last year's Notre Dame win was such a big deal.

Dodge2007 · December 7, 2008

They also can't have huge linemen on either side of the ball because of the other physical requirements, meaning that speed and discipline is at a premium and it can only take you so far when you are up against a team with similar speed and a bigger line. That's why last year's Notre Dame win was such a big deal.

You think disclipline is important? overrated, just ask our special teams, defense, offense, and coaching.

bigntex · December 7, 2008

You think disclipline is important? overrated, just ask our special teams, defense, offense, and coaching.
/quote]
Can you imagine what OU would have done to the simplified version of a todd dodge offense last night if Missouri had run it?
Please told tell me Pinkel learned his scheme from Dodge, that is a joke.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · December 7, 2008

Dude, OU goes from the spread. Then they go hurry up. They sometime line up in the I with a fullback and two tight ends.

The deal is, they don't just stick with one thing and one thing only. Our coach does. If we're at the one yard line, we're snapping from the shotgun with no tight end or fullback. If OU is at the one yard line, they put in two tight ends, a fullback, and a tailback - even if they've thrown the ball all the way down field, every other play of the drive!

It's so freaking stupid that our coach hasn't figured out yet that what worked against Colleyville Heritage isn't going to work against college defenses...even in the Sun Belt! It's so stupid that it's painful think about.

A concept so simple that only arrogance or flat out ignorance can explain it away - DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT!

bigntex · December 7, 2008

Dude, OU goes from the spread. Then they go hurry up. They sometime line up in the I with a fullback and two tight ends.
The deal is, they don't just stick with one thing and one thing only. Our coach does. If we're at the one yard line, we're snapping from the shotgun with no tight end or fullback. If OU is at the one yard line, they put in two tight ends, a fullback, and a tailback - even if they've thrown the ball all the way down field, every other play of the drive!
It's so freaking stupid that our coach hasn't figured out yet that what worked against Colleyville Heritage isn't going to work against college defenses...even in the Sun Belt! It's so stupid that it's painful think about.
A concept so simple that only arrogance or flat out ignorance can explain it away - DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT!

Ask Vito about arrogance. When Vito looks up arrogance in Websters he sees TD.

UNTBill · December 8, 2008

Dude, OU goes from the spread. Then they go hurry up. They sometime line up in the I with a fullback and two tight ends.
The deal is, they don't just stick with one thing and one thing only. Our coach does. If we're at the one yard line, we're snapping from the shotgun with no tight end or fullback. If OU is at the one yard line, they put in two tight ends, a fullback, and a tailback - even if they've thrown the ball all the way down field, every other play of the drive!
It's so freaking stupid that our coach hasn't figured out yet that what worked against Colleyville Heritage isn't going to work against college defenses...even in the Sun Belt! It's so stupid that it's painful think about.
A concept so simple that only arrogance or flat out ignorance can explain it away - DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT!

My sentiments exactly. I have yet to figure out a no huddle offense that takes so long to get a play off.

Every time the team turns their heads to look for the play on the sidelines, I want to turn my head and

puke in a bucket. You are right. DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT. To me, this offensive genious is a neophite.

NT03 · December 8, 2008

My sentiments exactly. I have yet to figure out a no huddle offense that takes so long to get a play off.
Every time the team turns their heads to look for the play on the sidelines, I want to turn my head and
puke in a bucket. You are right. DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT. To me, this offensive genious is a neophite.

Amen , what's the point of a NO huddle offense if you give the DEFense time to set it self while we are looking over at the sidelines EVERY stinkin play

Dodge2007 · December 8, 2008

Amen , what's the point of a NO huddle offense if you give the DEFense time to set it self while we are looking over at the sidelines EVERY stinkin play

Blame it on the QB, he can't decide on what freaking toppings to put on his pizza. Just ask ol' Rick, nautique, Lonnie, Tasty and all the others who really know.

NT03 · December 8, 2008

Blame it on the QB, he can't decide on what freaking toppings to put on his pizza. Just ask ol' Rick, nautique, Lonnie, Tasty and all the others who really know.

You would think with a name like Gio , something like pizza would never be a problem :ninja:

Edited December 8, 2008 by NT03

Got5onIt · December 8, 2008

Mizzou got stomped down the stretch. What does that tell you?

The Tigers were better equipped to beat the top teams when Brad Smith was QB. Poor defense & bad coaching got the best of those Tiger teams. Things apparently still haven't changed.

Edited December 8, 2008 by Got5onIt

The Fake Lonnie Finch · December 8, 2008

What it tells me is that the Big 12 is pretty dadgum competitive. Pinkel is a good coach, but the Big 12 is full of great coaches at the top. That will always be his problem.

Fortunately for him, Mizzou is a basketball school and will probably be happy if he keeps them competitive for the Big 12 North year in and year out. I think he will eventually break through and win a Big 12 title. What he's done at Missouri is excellent. They haven't had that kind of success since the 60s and early to mid 70s with this kind of consistency.

Landing Jeremy Maclin was impressive, too. It came down to Mizzou and OU, and Pinkel landed him. As good as the OU offense is, it's scary to consider that they almost had Maclin as well.