Big 12: It's Ou

THOR · December 1, 2008

i think you should have to win your conference in order to go to the national championship game. otherwise, in this hypothetical, ou going to the the big 12 champ game could be viewed as a punishment for them if they lose. ut would get to go because they weren't good enough in the polls to advance to their conf champ game.

and if you can't win your conference, how can you be the best team???

Eagle1855 · December 1, 2008

and if you can't win your conference, how can you be the best team???

I see what you're saying, but with half the schools in the Big 12 South at 11-1 having only lost to one another, how can you really say which is the best team? Mizzou would be the 4th/5th best team in the Big 12 south. In fact, had Baylor pulled the upset, they would have put Mizzou on pace to go 0-4 against the South (assuming a loss to OU). My point is, its all subjective. Of course, that's kind of the fun of college football.

Edited December 1, 2008 by Eagle1855

THOR · December 1, 2008

i agree about it all being subjective and that is what's fun, or not. i would just say that common opponents would have to be looked at or just use some common sense in order to determine who is best or in the case of ou, tt, and ut do this....tt is way down in the rankings plus their ooc was embarrasing, so they're out. so ou and ut are left....well, ut beat ou....ut should go, in my opinion.

of course, i'm just a couch potato...but it's me using some common sense!

Edited December 1, 2008 by radiogreen

bflan · December 1, 2008

It's good to see some people defend UT on this board...kinda surprising. Ultimately, UT screwed themselves by scheduling cupcakes as out of conference games. However, when the schedules are made some 4-5 or so years back, you never know where an opponent's program will be. Of course, scheduling FAU just isn't good business. When Texas won the BcS Championship, they beat Ohio State in Ohio that year. That was a bold move on UT's part, quite a risk; but it paid off. Makes you wonder, huh? IF you really want to go for a title, you better schedule some tougher games. The computer put OU over the top on this one. Both HUMAN polls had UT ahead of OU. The computer swung it.

Edited December 1, 2008 by bflan

Got5onIt · December 1, 2008

OU's the hotter of the 2 teams. I don't have a problem with it. Besides, all the whining about settling it on the field by the unexpected influx of Shorthorn nutswingers, can go both ways. Texas knew they were in teh driver seat and had to run the table. They get whatever they deserve since TT beat them, IMO.

Varsity · December 1, 2008

This was settled on the field at 45-35. This bullshit about [girl's voice] OU's the hotter team right now [/girl's voice] is just that, bullshit.

Mack Brown pulled the dogs off Baylor, Kansas and Texas A&M and talked about sportsmanship (a long dead concept in sports these days). It pays to be a Bob Stoops asshole.

UNTflyer · December 1, 2008

Ranked schools....Florida has beaten #16 Georgia and #24 Florida State(and Alabama should they win Saturday).
USC has beaten...#10 Ohio State and # 19 Oregon.
EDGE USC (so far....if they beat Bama, obviously you give this to UF)

They also beat Mississippi which is now ranked #23 in the AP.

Green P1 · December 1, 2008

No problem with it.

All the people bitching about UT beating OU need to look west. Guess TT just doesn't matter anymore. Well they got blown out bu OU!!! So we want to include margin of victory? OU beat TT 40+ and OSU by 20. UT lost to TT and beat OSU by 4.

Each team has a legitimate argument, but for the burnt orange to be so shocked and appalled.... I don't get it.

mad dog · December 1, 2008

It is looking at one degree of separation instead of two. Texas beat OU. That's a stronger argument than OU beat Tech beat Texas. Kinda like those victory chains that circulate on email now and then which claim that, due to at a twelve link victory chain, Duke is actually better than Florida.

Both teams are 11-1 in the Big 12 south. They both have played killer schedules. The only difference is that one team beat the other. And you're going to rank the losing team ahead of the winner?

That's why head to head is so important in the NFL. If Dallas is fighting Tampa Bay for a playoff spot, and both end up 11-5, then who wins? This year, Dallas would, because they beat Tampa Bay head to head. I have a hard time accepting the strength of schedule argument when there's a far better tie breaker right there.

For the record, I have fairly unpleasant feelings about both teams. If there's a way that both teams could manage to lose in that famous October afternoon in the Cotton Bowl, I've be all for it. I just see a clear shafting here, and am really confused how such an obviously weaker argument is getting airtime.

Green P1 · December 1, 2008

If you're against the strength of schedule argument..... why are you leaving TT out of the dance? Are you negating strength of schedule but leaving in margin of victory?

All I'm saying is that TT deserves a hat in the ring. I'm sure Raider fans are crying.... they just don't have a voice that projects.

greenminer · December 1, 2008

This was settled on the field at 45-35. This bullshit about [girl's voice] OU's the hotter team right now [/girl's voice] is just that, bullshit.
Mack Brown pulled the dogs off Baylor, Kansas and Texas A&M and talked about sportsmanship (a long dead concept in sports these days). It pays to be a Bob Stoops asshole.

do you believe if they played again Texas would win again?

I sympathize and understand the "we took care of business on the field" argument, but that was over a month ago and it would probably be slightly naive to think Texas would win a rematch right now. Why didn't they take care of business with TTech?

That OU team is playing pretty freakin' good, sexy or not.

CMJ · December 1, 2008

They also beat Mississippi which is now ranked #23 in the AP.

No...they lost to Ole Miss(which I noted).

The Fake Lonnie Finch · December 1, 2008

Only one human poll had Texas over OU, not both. OU is #2 in the USA Today/Coaches Poll; Texas is #3.

Got5onIt · December 1, 2008

This was settled on the field at 45-35. This bullshit about [girl's voice] OU's the hotter team right now [/girl's voice] is just that, bullshit.
Mack Brown pulled the dogs off Baylor, Kansas and Texas A&M and talked about sportsmanship (a long dead concept in sports these days). It pays to be a Bob Stoops asshole.

It was settled on the field and TT beat UT. The Hawrns knew they had to run the table and couldn't do it. They get what they deserve.

UNT_playmaker · December 1, 2008

It was settled on the field and TT beat UT. The Hawrns knew they had to run the table and couldn't do it. They get what they deserve.

An Aggie fan making a cheap shot on Texas

FirefightnRick · December 1, 2008

So the Longhorns will be watching two teams they beat play for the conference title......

With all that money???? :lol:

Rick

Edited December 1, 2008 by FirefightnRick

Varsity · December 1, 2008

do you believe if they played again Texas would win again?

You're supposed to show up at the proper time. That's what schedules are for.

Edited December 1, 2008 by Varsity

The Fake Lonnie Finch · December 1, 2008

Here's a little different angle that's neither pro-Texas nor pro-OU:

Why should any school in a BCS conference be allowed to complain when the BCS does whatever it does year in and year out?

All of those conferences and their schools have agreed to be willing participants in a scheme that allows them the vast majority of the bowl money. Even the teams in their conferences get more money not going to bowl games than non-BCS conference school who do go to bowl games!

So, does any member of the BCS really have a right to complain? Think about it, seriously. You 've got a system where two undefeated, non-BCS schools this year will make less bowl money than Baylor and Iowa State. Is that right?

So, whether it be Bob Stoops or Mack Brown or Urban Meyer or Pete Carroll or whomever eventually perceives themselves to be "screwed" by the BCS system, shouldn't they all just shut the hell up. After all it was their conferences and presidents who built the monster and fed it. So, if they get bit in the butt, so be it.

Someone find me a quote somewhere by Deloss Dodds saying the Big 12 system for a three way tie wasn't fair before this season. You won't find any such complaint by anyone at Texas about their conference rules and the BCS because they only cry when they system, already tilted in their favor, doesn't come out the way they want it to.

Washington, who will finish the season without a win will make more bowl money by not going to a bowl but being in a BCS conference than undefeated non-BCSers Ball State and Boise State.

Screw all BCS coaches, athletic directors, and president who cry when the deal doesn't turn out their way. They get plenty just for being in the "chosen one" conferences. The rest of us struggle along.

MeanGreengdub · December 1, 2008

This was settled on the field at 45-35. This bullshit about [girl's voice] OU's the hotter team right now [/girl's voice] is just that, bullshit.
Mack Brown pulled the dogs off Baylor, Kansas and Texas A&M and talked about sportsmanship (a long dead concept in sports these days). It pays to be a Bob Stoops asshole.

Mack Brown has been the one politicking for his team every sense this mess started. Stoops decided not to comment about it and take care of his business and let the voters decide. There is no good argument. Yes, UT beat OU but UT also got beat by Tech whom OU killed. OU just got the better schedule with teams ranked down the stretch and took care of them.

Sportsmanship doesn't buy championships.

Eagle1855 · December 1, 2008

Mack Brown has been the one politicking for his team every sense this mess started. Stoops decided not to comment about it and take care of his business and let the voters decide.

Calm down, sooner homer. Stoops was very vocal in his campaigning for OU to be ranked ahead of Texas and continued to do so in the press conference following the BCS announcement. They both played the game because the way the system is set up, it requires it. We would want our coach to do the same thing for us.

LongJim · December 1, 2008

NM

Edited December 1, 2008 by LongJim

Green Mean · December 1, 2008

I don't have any problem seeing OU at number 2. First off this is the system so this is something everyone has to deal with. OU clearly had a tougher schedule than Texas. TT, UT, and OU all beat up on eachother and everyone knows that. I hear Longhorn blowhards saying 45-35 but that makes no difference one bit. The reason why OU jumped Texas was because the last 4 games have been complete arse rapes and scoring 60+ points in each game...I dont care how good you are but that is insane. Plus the biggest and most important reason why OU made the jump was that they had a much more difficult non conference schedule. They played top Cincy and TCU...both of whom are in the top 13 I believe. They also played a Pac 10 team in Washington. I know Washington is awful but atleast they come from a BCS conference and it was a road game. Their only crap game was Tennessee-Chatanooga. On the other hand Texas played FAU, UTEP, Rice and Arkansas. Ok I will give them credit for beating Arkansas since in the end they are an SEC BCS team. Other than that they beat pretty crap teams...Yes I know Rice won 8 or 9 games this year but lets face reality that they are not all that great compared to the bigger boys. So once again tough luck Longhorn fans...if you had created a tougher non conference schedule then it is quite obvious this topic wouldn't be discussed.

Edited December 1, 2008 by Green Mean

LongJim · December 1, 2008

Sucks for Texas, but they knew the rules before the games were played. If you had told me pre-season that this years team would be 11-1 with victories over 0U and aTm, and going to the Fiesta, I would have taken it in a heartbeat. Still will.

That said, the B12 tiebreaker system sucks, but Bellmont will be throwing their weight around for sure after what they view as a screwjob. Life goes on.

Everybody allegedly wants a playoff system, but it appears we reserve the right to ignore what happens on the field when it suits our purpose. This is a perfect example.

Interestingly, here's who would have gone from the South if TT, 0U, and Texas played in other major conferences. The Sooners were fortunate to play in the B12 this year:

********************************************************************

ACC: Texas (fifth tiebreaker)

Once a three-team tie has been reduced to two, a two-team tiebreaker is used.

Combined head-to-head (all are 1-1)

Records vs. division (all are 4-1)

Head-to-head competition vs. team within the division with best overall (divisional or conference) proceeding through division (all beat Oklahoma State, Baylor, Texas A&M)

Overall record for non-division teams (Texas wins; Longhorns opponents are 21-15, OU's and Tech's are 20-16)

Big 12: Oklahoma (fifth tiebreaker)

The records of three teams will be compared against each other (all are 1-1)

The records of three teams will be compared within their division (all are 4-1)

The records of three teams will be compared to next highest placed teams in their division (all beat Oklahoma State, Baylor, Texas A&M)

The records of three teams against common opponents (all beat Kansas, only common North opponent)

Team with top BCS ranking (No. 2 Oklahoma, No. 3 Texas, No. 7 Texas Tech)

Conference USA: Texas (sixth tiebreaker)

Highest regular-season win percentage based on conference play (all tied at .875)

Head to head between tied teams (all are 1-1)

Highest win percentage in division (all .800)

Records against divisional opponents in descending order of finish (all beat Oklahoma State, Baylor, Texas A&M)

Records against common cross-division opponents (all beat Kansas)

Records against cross-division opponents in descending order of finish (Texas wins; Longhorns defeated North champ Missouri)

Mid-American: Texas (fourth tiebreaker)

Head to head

Record vs. division

Win percentage of cross-over opponents (all 4-0 vs. common opponents, North opponents were a combined 11-13 for all teams)

Cross-division opponents in rank order (Texas wins; beat North champ Missouri)

SEC: Texas (sixth tiebreaker)

Head to head

Record vs. division

Head to head vs. team within division with best overall record and proceeding through division (all beat Oklahoma State, Baylor and Texas A&M)

Record vs. non-division teams (all 3-0)

Record vs. common non-divisional teams with best conference record (all beat Kansas)

Team with highest BCS, unless second tied team is ranked within five or fewer places of highest ranked team. In this case, head to head of winner of top two is the representative. (Oklahoma is No. 2, Texas is No. 3, Texas Tech is No. 7; Texas beat Oklahoma)

Quoner · December 1, 2008

An Aggie fan making a cheap shot on Texas

Got5onIt is an Aggie homer?

Sometimes, my favorite part of vacation is reading your work when I get back. Someday, you might just get your own Monday Morning Recap./

Green Lantern · December 1, 2008

Here's a little different angle that's neither pro-Texas nor pro-OU:
Why should any school in a BCS conference be allowed to complain when the BCS does whatever it does year in and year out?
All of those conferences and their schools have agreed to be willing participants in a scheme that allows them the vast majority of the bowl money. Even the teams in their conferences get more money not going to bowl games than non-BCS conference school who do go to bowl games!
So, does any member of the BCS really have a right to complain? Think about it, seriously. You 've got a system where two undefeated, non-BCS schools this year will make less bowl money than Baylor and Iowa State. Is that right?
So, whether it be Bob Stoops or Mack Brown or Urban Meyer or Pete Carroll or whomever eventually perceives themselves to be "screwed" by the BCS system, shouldn't they all just shut the hell up. After all it was their conferences and presidents who built the monster and fed it. So, if they get bit in the butt, so be it.
Someone find me a quote somewhere by Deloss Dodds saying the Big 12 system for a three way tie wasn't fair before this season. You won't find any such complaint by anyone at Texas about their conference rules and the BCS because they only cry when they system, already tilted in their favor, doesn't come out the way they want it to.
Washington, who will finish the season without a win will make more bowl money by not going to a bowl but being in a BCS conference than undefeated non-BCSers Ball State and Boise State.
Screw all BCS coaches, athletic directors, and president who cry when the deal doesn't turn out their way. They get plenty just for being in the "chosen one" conferences. The rest of us struggle along.

*Norm Voice*

I love you.