Accountability Begins Now.

Talon90 · November 30, 2008

I have watched this season from afar this year as I did not renew my season tickets that I have had for about a decade. The reason for this for the most part was due to economic issues and family obligations on the weekends with two teenagers involved in school activities. Having said that I have to be honest. As much as I have enjoyed the gameday atmosphere over the years, I would have had a hard time spending my valuable time and money on such a horrible product. For those of you that have stayed committed, you are truly die hard fans. How we managed decent attendance this year is remarkable and a job well done by students, alumni and the athletic department. I will say the one thing I have missed this year is seeing all of the good friends I have made over the years rooting on the Mean Green.

I have said numerous times that I would give Coach Dodge two years before I held him accountable for the program. He did not inherit much talent and has brought in a system that is completely opposite of what Dickey ran. This is going to take time. Those of you talking about firing coach Dodge really makes me scratch my head. That would only set this program back even more and as many have stated on the board, this is about a four year process to evaluate.

I read this morning in the DMN that Coach Dodge has not made any excuses and takes full responsibility for this horrific season. He is going to sit down with Rick V. and evaluate every single person in the program as he should.

The bottom line in winning football at this level is recruiting. That was the sell to us when Coach Dodge was hired. This is the area that will ultimately decide the programs fate in the next couple of years. I think the jury is still out on the first two classes but we have to continue to recruit better athletes just to stay competitive in the Sun Belt, let alone out of conference. The one great thing about this season is the stadium vote. Kudos to all the students that made this happen. This was essential to help with this process. Had that not passed, I think this program would slowly die an ugly death.

If Coach Dodge can consistently recruit better than the majority of mid-major programs than the rest will take care of itself. Will that happen? It remains to be seen but accountability for me starts now.

Go Mean Green!

Erik

DeepGreen · November 30, 2008

Agreed. RV needs to double or triple the current recruiting budget so that talent can be brought in from more than the DFW area.

FirefightnRick · November 30, 2008

The talent he inherited twice, took one of the best belt teams to the wire, and should have beaten both of them.

Rick

Green Mean · November 30, 2008

Agreed. RV needs to double or triple the current recruiting budget so that talent can be brought in from more than the DFW area.

This would be very important and vital to the program but I am not sure how they will increase the budget. As is the athletics referendum won't go into effect until the stadium is built and who really knows when that will be. Based on the administrations past history, nothing leads me to believe that they would be on board with such an increase in the athletics/football budget. NT is in a pickle right now and I am not sure how this can can get better without the first thing happening...and that is good coaching to put the players in a position to compete on a weekly basis and win many more games. I believe that is the only way this things can start improving in the immediate future.

eulesseagle · November 30, 2008

"He hasn't helped recruiting" are you joking here?

There was a post on the FB forum that NT would never have a quality program without better quality recruits then goes on to say we won't be able to obtain quality recruits until we have a new stadium and higher quality players....is that an oxeymoran?

I don't count TD's 07 recruiting class as he had less than 30 days on the job but wound up with some quality recruits Jesse DeSoto, Sam Dibrell, Micah Mosley, AJ Penson, Kyle Russo, Giovanni Vizza and Cam Montgomery.

Saying we can't commit against big name schools.......are you joking?........Look at our 08 class

In 07 we won only 2 games yet in Feb 08 recruiting we had signed LOI from recruits over the following big time schools:

Lance Dunbar chose Nt over offers from AzST, Georgia Tech, Kansas, Virginia, OK ST,Colorado and Missouri

Troy Franklin chose Nt over offers from Tulsa and Colorado state

Willie Taylor chose Nt over offers from A$M and Tulsa

Desmond Brigham chose Nt over offers from Arkansas, Missouri and A$M

Coleman Feeley chose NT over offers from Baylor, UH, Rice, SMU and UTEP

Kylee Hill chose Nt over offers Tulsa and Northern,

James Hamilton chose NT over offers from SMU, UTEP, Tulsa, Kentucky and New Mexico State

John Shorter chose NT over offers from SMU, TCU, Iowa State and Tulsa

DeWaylon Cook decommited from SMU and chose Nt over offers from TCU, KST, Utah and West Virginia

Justin Edwards chose Nt over offer from SMU, TT, TCU, KS, Tulsa and Ole Miss

ADryan chose Nt over overs from Tulsa, Kansas, KSt, OkST and A$M

Jeremy Phillips chose NT over offers from Rice, Baylor, Duke and Army

I didn't count Riley Dodge (with 5 offers) because of his relationship with his father.

If I remember correctly we had a higher rated recruiting crop over SMU and TCU according to the experts in 08.

Our 09 recruits include one Anthony Charles a 3* JC LB over offers from Kansas, Kansas State, Fresno State and South Florida

In 09 we are recruiting DT (the hardest position to recruit because the big schools stock pile them (with 9 or 10 DT's on their squad) ...see separate post on this...) against the biggest name schools around..and are still in the running for several of those...I believe we will have a good recruiting season once it is over...despite our two year record.

I post OldTimer's earlier post ..... excellent research by OT..... to indicate the excellent recruits that TD has taken from other BCS programs. I truely believe that Coach Dodge will continue to out recruit other mid majors in his endeavor to bring, once again, respectability to NT. As bad as the football program was when Coach Dodge took over he has, undeniably, out recruited other NT coaches from the past 40 years. Unbelievably to some.....these players need another year of development and still more unbelievable to other Coach Dodge is our coach of the future and needs to stay. He is committed to win, the players are committed to win, Coach Deloach is committed to win and RV is committed to win with TD.

great post OldTimer!!

The Fake Lonnie Finch · November 30, 2008

This is ridiculous. He's way behind in recruiting this year. And the "inherited" talent almost got him a win yesterday when he finally put them on the field.

Recruiting is a huge part of the reason we're 3-21 with Dodge. He didn't know how to recruit and he still doesn't. He's scrambling around trying to get JUCO receivers after two seasons of oversigning at that position. He's got no linemen committed. SMU inked 8 last year and have 7 committed this year. That is where the games are won and lost.

The rank ineptitude displayed by Dodge and his staff is showing up big time now in recruiting. If your standard is recruiting, the ship has already sailed. The best we can hope for is to not have too much attrition among the players currently on the roster so that the coach that is hired after Dodge is fired isn't completely starting from scratch - because that's where this thing is going.

The whole thing is sickening. It's sickening that we're going to have to go through this whole thing again next season. It's just not right. The only possible upside of the whole thing is that when Dodge is fired, RV will be canned as well. At that point, hopefully, the Board and Administration will hire an athletic director who will get a real college football coach.

Green Dozer · November 30, 2008

This is ridiculous. He's way behind in recruiting this year. And the "inherited" talent almost got him a win yesterday when he finally put them on the field.
Recruiting is a huge part of the reason we're 3-21 with Dodge. He didn't know how to recruit and he still doesn't. He's scrambling around trying to get JUCO receivers after two seasons of oversigning at that position. He's got no linemen committed. SMU inked 8 last year and have 7 committed this year. That is where the games are won and lost.
The rank ineptitude displayed by Dodge and his staff is showing up big time now in recruiting. If your standard is recruiting, the ship has already sailed. The best we can hope for is to not have too much attrition among the players currently on the roster so that the coach that is hired after Dodge is fired isn't completely starting from scratch - because that's where this thing is going.
The whole thing is sickening. It's sickening that we're going to have to go through this whole thing again next season. It's just not right. The only possible upside of the whole thing is that when Dodge is fired, RV will be canned as well. At that point, hopefully, the Board and Administration will hire an athletic director who will get a real college football coach.

Lonnie,

How do you know he is way behind in recruiting for this year? As for as RV getting canned, that is a great idea :blink: . Then we will not only have to buy out Dodge, but we will also have RV to buy out, as well as having Dickey still on the payroll. But not to worry, no problem for a big time program like ours with money just rolling in. We'll have plenty for an up and coming coach, just like 70% of the ones who have coached here before and done such a great job with all these unlimited resources and above average supportive alumnae. :blink: :unsure:

eulesseagle · November 30, 2008

so lonnie you just want to buy out TD's contract and roll the dice on another coach?? hahahahahaha

so who do you plan on getting??? perhaps another june jones for an easy million per year??? perhaps an unproven assistant from some big time program???

perhaps you and all the other "get rid of TD" numbnuts can get together and scrape up enough cash to pull this off. In the mean time I support TD and so do a lot of other alums who see the excellent recruiting they have done. Heck, NT is loaded with excellent freshmen and sophmore talent. Just refer to OldTimer's above post.

TheTastyGreek · December 1, 2008

One of the main reasons I thought it was time for Dickey to go was because he retained Flanagan after the SilverEagle incident. Dickey stood up for a guy who probably should have been fired. The next year, Flanagan assaulted a fellow coach. Dickey put himself out there for RF, RF screwed up again; Dickey took a risk that on its own justified his termination.

Monday, RV meets with a head coach who has shown me nothing but a mountain of evidence that he isn't capable of succeeding as our coach. If RV decides to retain Todd Dodge, that's his decision and he's the one in position to make it. He gets paid to make decisions like that, and if he decides that Dodge is the best way forward, so be it.

But if he decides to keep Dodge and it turns out he's wrong... I think he's put himself on the line for a coach who doesn't deserve it. And the consequences should be the same.

Got5onIt · December 1, 2008

so lonnie you just want to buy out TD's contract and roll the dice on another coach?? hahahahahaha
so who do you plan on getting??? perhaps another june jones for an easy million per year??? perhaps an unproven assistant from some big time program???
perhaps you and all the other "get rid of TD" numbnuts can get together and scrape up enough cash to pull this off. In the mean time I support TD and so do a lot of other alums who see the excellent recruiting they have done. Heck, NT is loaded with excellent freshmen and sophmore talent. Just refer to OldTimer's above post.

How about a cool quarter mill a year to an unproven high school coach to run a FBS program?? Sounds 10x worse than the options you've given, doesn't it?

UNTLifer · December 1, 2008

TFLF, how do you explain NT's 2008 recruiting n being ranked one of the top by a "mid-major" and better than TCU and others?

Aquila_Viridis · December 1, 2008

I am starting to wonder what some mean by 'turn it around'. Do you mean that it takes 4 years until you can win more games than you lose? Does it take 4 years to stop losing most games by whopping margins? Ridiculous!

I wonder if any coach ever has had 2 worse years to start. Yet some want to 'stay the course'. Seriously, even if we lost as many as we have, I wouldn't be all over it if the losses weren't mostly so terrible, and in many cases to such terrible teams. Don't start on me about this close game against stAte. I would fully expect to see many more blowouts next season.

This whole school and program looks hopeless right now. I'm giving them this week to make a different statement. Assuming they don't, after that, all you numb diehards can go down with the ship.

NT03 · December 1, 2008

TFLF, how do you explain NT's 2008 recruiting n being ranked one of the top by a "mid-major" and better than TCU and others?

Recruiting "Rankings" mean nothing , just ask Notre Dame how those "top" classses are doing

GoMeanGreen1999 · December 1, 2008

so lonnie you just want to buy out TD's contract and roll the dice on another coach?? hahahahahaha
so who do you plan on getting??? perhaps another june jones for an easy million per year??? perhaps an unproven assistant from some big time program???
perhaps you and all the other "get rid of TD" numbnuts can get together and scrape up enough cash to pull this off. In the mean time I support TD and so do a lot of other alums who see the excellent recruiting they have done. Heck, NT is loaded with excellent freshmen and sophmore talent. Just refer to OldTimer's above post.

Just curious, but say Dodge only wins 2-3 games next season, do you give him a fourth year?

NT03 · December 1, 2008

Just curious, but say Dodge only wins 2-3 games next season, do you give him a fourth year?

Feel free to vote :lol: :

http://www.gomeangreen.com/forums/index.ph...ic=44545&hl=

UNTLifer · December 1, 2008

Recruiting "Rankings" mean nothing , just ask Notre Dame how those "top" classses are doing

You are right, they don't mean a thing. The real results won't be known until they are Jr's or Sr's, but nobody wants to let these young men develop.

I noticed TFLF didn't reply to the fact that the OL he mentioned was flagged for holding a number of times, but it doesn't matter to TFLF because he's our resident expert.

hickoryhouse · December 1, 2008

I noticed TFLF didn't reply to the fact that the OL he mentioned was flagged for holding a number of times, but it doesn't matter to TFLF because he's our resident expert.

Not trying to take sides here but isn't it possible that if the man were on the field more this season he wouldn't have been flagged as many times today, maybe it was a rust thing?

I personally am going to give TD a pass this year and I agree accontability starts the third season, he needs to show us a Major! improvement to stay for a fourth, like 6 wins. If we rock next year with a .500 season i will be happy to keep him. If we for some god forsaken reason get out of the gate as 0-6 then he needs to be gone before the seventh game.

greenminer · December 1, 2008

The lines that played on Saturday kept us in the game. What can the other lines lay claim to?

Not holding? great. fantastic. Glad to see where our priorities are.

UNT90 · December 1, 2008

"He hasn't helped recruiting" are you joking here?
There was a post on the FB forum that NT would never have a quality program without better quality recruits then goes on to say we won't be able to obtain quality recruits until we have a new stadium and higher quality players....is that an oxeymoran?
I don't count TD's 07 recruiting class as he had less than 30 days on the job but wound up with some quality recruits Jesse DeSoto, Sam Dibrell, Micah Mosley, AJ Penson, Kyle Russo, Giovanni Vizza and Cam Montgomery.
Saying we can't commit against big name schools.......are you joking?........Look at our 08 class
In 07 we won only 2 games yet in Feb 08 recruiting we had signed LOI from recruits over the following big time schools:
Lance Dunbar chose Nt over offers from AzST, Georgia Tech, Kansas, Virginia, OK ST,Colorado and Missouri
Troy Franklin chose Nt over offers from Tulsa and Colorado state
Willie Taylor chose Nt over offers from A$M and Tulsa
Desmond Brigham chose Nt over offers from Arkansas, Missouri and A$M
Coleman Feeley chose NT over offers from Baylor, UH, Rice, SMU and UTEP
Kylee Hill chose Nt over offers Tulsa and Northern,
James Hamilton chose NT over offers from SMU, UTEP, Tulsa, Kentucky and New Mexico State
John Shorter chose NT over offers from SMU, TCU, Iowa State and Tulsa
DeWaylon Cook decommited from SMU and chose Nt over offers from TCU, KST, Utah and West Virginia
Justin Edwards chose Nt over offer from SMU, TT, TCU, KS, Tulsa and Ole Miss
ADryan chose Nt over overs from Tulsa, Kansas, KSt, OkST and A$M
Jeremy Phillips chose NT over offers from Rice, Baylor, Duke and Army
I didn't count Riley Dodge (with 5 offers) because of his relationship with his father.
If I remember correctly we had a higher rated recruiting crop over SMU and TCU according to the experts in 08.
Our 09 recruits include one Anthony Charles a 3* JC LB over offers from Kansas, Kansas State, Fresno State and South Florida
In 09 we are recruiting DT (the hardest position to recruit because the big schools stock pile them (with 9 or 10 DT's on their squad) ...see separate post on this...) against the biggest name schools around..and are still in the running for several of those...I believe we will have a good recruiting season once it is over...despite our two year record.
I post OldTimer's earlier post ..... excellent research by OT..... to indicate the excellent recruits that TD has taken from other BCS programs. I truely believe that Coach Dodge will continue to out recruit other mid majors in his endeavor to bring, once again, respectability to NT. As bad as the football program was when Coach Dodge took over he has, undeniably, out recruited other NT coaches from the past 40 years. Unbelievably to some.....these players need another year of development and still more unbelievable to other Coach Dodge is our coach of the future and needs to stay. He is committed to win, the players are committed to win, Coach Deloach is committed to win and RV is committed to win with TD.
great post OldTimer!!

I truely hope Dodge turns this around next year and support whatever conclusion is made by the Admin reference his future here.

But you cant have it both ways. If he has recruited so much better than any other coach that has ever coached here, then this massive influx of superior talent would have produced better results on the field. It would not matter that they are young, because they were SO much more talented than the players from 2006 (the cupboard was bare argument). But that hasn't happened. Why? Either coaching or talent evaluation. Since all these other schools probably wouldn't offer these kids if the talent wasn't there, I think we can scratch poor talent evaluation.

That leaves coaching.

I hope for improved coaching next year. Didn't see it this year.

And round and round we go...(heavy sigh)

UNTflyer · December 1, 2008

Just curious, but say Dodge only wins 2-3 games next season, do you give him a fourth year?

I think Dodge will need a significant turnaround next year to save his job.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · December 1, 2008

You are right, they don't mean a thing. The real results won't be known until they are Jr's or Sr's, but nobody wants to let these young men develop.
I noticed TFLF didn't reply to the fact that the OL he mentioned was flagged for holding a number of times, but it doesn't matter to TFLF because he's our resident expert.

Yes, "a number of times." I suppose one is a number. Rose was flagged once. We were penalized twice all day. The other penalty was for a facemask against our defense.

Anyway, it doesn't take an expert to figure out that with #67 in, we only gave up one sack all day to one of the best defenses in our conference.

Congratulations to the seniors who got to play; and, to prove that they should have been on the field alot more this season that they were.

TIgreen01 · December 1, 2008

I'm not really sure where the idea came from that the seniors getting to play on Saturday is what kept us in that game. Chad Rose played on the Oline, but did not start---I honestly don't know when he went into the game or how many plays he got. Stickler played his guts out (literally after taking one to the nads!) as did a few other WRs. Either way, our defense not completely folding is what kept us in the game...moreso than the offense. The defense had ONE senior player show up in the top 11 tacklers from the game---Colt Mahan, and he's been playing all season on 3rd down in passing situations.

I'm not trying to knock the seniors and I liked that Dodge put in Phillips and Meager in a tight game b/c they deserved it.....but the notion that the senior class (that supposedly didn't play all year---so throwing out Casey, Stick, Ike Thomas, Mahan, etc b/c they DID play a large percentage of plays this season)kept us in that game is a giant stretch.

Edited December 1, 2008 by TIgreen01

Got5onIt · December 1, 2008

I'm not really sure where the idea came from that the seniors getting to play on Saturday is what kept us in that game. Chad Rose played on the Oline, but did not start---I honestly don't know when he went into the game or how many plays he got. Stickler played his guts out (literally after taking one to the nads!) as did a few other WRs. Either way, our defense not completely folding is what kept us in the game...moreso than the offense. The defense had ONE senior player show up in the top 11 tacklers from the game---Colt Mahan, and he's been playing all season on 3rd down in passing situations.
I'm not trying to knock the seniors and I liked that Dodge put in Phillips and Meager in a tight game b/c they deserved it.....but the notion that the senior class (that supposedly didn't play all year---so throwing out Casey, Stick, Ike Thomas, Mahan, etc b/c they DID play a large percentage of plays this season)kept us in that game is a giant stretch.

pics or video clip?

jimmyjames_99 · December 1, 2008

I wonder if any coach ever has had 2 worse years to start. Yet some want to 'stay the course'.

Mack Brown went 1-10 his first two seasons with UNC and was there for 10 seasons and 6 bowl appearances (well 5, but coached the season that got them the 6th).

Eagle1855 · December 1, 2008

Mack Brown went 1-10 his first two seasons with UNC and was there for 10 seasons and 6 bowl appearances (well 5, but coached the season that got them the 6th).

true.