Unt Is Not Like Boise State

shaft · November 24, 2008

Plumm ranted:

If even any "one" of DD's 4 bowl teams had been ranked near or in the Top 25, he would still be in Denton today and it would probably be a toss-up whether to have his or Hayden Fry's name on the upcoming new stadium; that is, if our new football palace is not going to be named after some corporation (which many of us still think will play a big part in its eventual construction).

I really did not like some of the things I posted about Coach Dickey in hindsight, but what was posted back then was coming from an NT alum who as an NT student supported Mean Green football teams that (no matter how you slice it) did have some key wins over some key name football schools. This is still the barometer for many of us Old Gun Alums today. Had their been as many bowls back in 1975 as there are today, the University of Tennessee Vols (who we beat in 1975) would have been in a bowl since they did finish with a winning record in 1975.

What I said during the last 2 years of DD Ball was merely in context as to what many of us still felt this program should be doing with winning records which would be tantamount to what our former Big West conference-mate, ie, the Boise State Broncos were doing with their own annual winning records and bowl teams, that's all. Can you blame us old NT foagies for thinking that UNT should expect no less than what the Broncos were getting with their winning seasons and bowl teams?

Still............we can all only wish the best for Coach Dickey and right now we might all agree that even winning (bowl) teams annually ranked toward the Bottom 25 would be better than what we've had of late. The barometer for Mean Green football success has still apparently not been set high in Denton under present leadership and I don't know why.

I still don't think its time to throw in the towel just yet, but Coach Dodge really needs a good recruiting year filled with Juco's (most likely) who can start, he needs an above .500 season in his upcoming 3'rd year and who is to say that in the conference we're in that we can't have just that? It's just that I don't think we will have such (even if successful in 2009) at the same level that the Boise State's of the NCAA D1-A world are having when they have winning seasons with ranked bowl teams, that's all. For many of us, we are really starting from scratch with this and have no idea where any of this is heading and for those from the Mean Joe Greene era thru the Fry years in Denton, all this is a source of great frustration. "

Shaft says:

Instead of hi-jacking another thread, I thought give this its own space.

The Big West was bad for UNT and good for a bad Boise team.

The spread out nature of the Big West was bad for our pocket book, and good for theirs.

The Mountain Time Zone focus was bad for our press, and good for theirs.

Boise got a better coach, better facilities, and their own bowl which help them take over a conference and develop into the team they are today.

Your soap box rant about UNT deserves better is tired.

What does 1975, Fry, or Mean Joe have to do with our current situation.

There was no golden age of UNT football. DD was the best thing that happen to this program and fans like you came on the board and moaned about it.

TIgreen01 · November 24, 2008

Your soap box rant about UNT deserves better is tired.
What does 1975, Fry, or Mean Joe have to do with our current situation.
There was no golden age of UNT football. DD was the best thing that happen to this program and fans like you came on the board and moaned about it.

DD being the best thing to happen to the program and DD being the best thing that the program could hope for are two different things.

I don't understand why we can only have one or the other here at NT. Why can we not have everything?? We have to start somewhere and if we're just happy with the best we've gotten then we have no incentive to improve and keep pushing forward.

Regardless of this current team's lack of success on the field, this program is IN THE MIDDLE of an upsweep in support. Don't lose sight of the whole picture. Even during these last 4 years we have grown our MGC memberships, season ticket sales and gameday attendance. Why take a step backwards when the entire program is moving forward??

Just for the record, I'd rather have fans like Plumm and GGII stick around any day of the week---b/c they DO expect and hope for more for UNT.

SUMG · November 24, 2008

If the best thing to ever happen to this program was a guy whose career record was 42-64........let me jump off this ship right now.

Hey we can do better than Dickey. And we can damn sure do better than Dodge.

Green Mean · November 24, 2008

If the best thing to ever happen to this program was a guy whose career record was 42-64........let me jump off this ship right now.
Hey we can do better than Dickey. And we can damn sure do better than Dodge.

Couldn't agree with you more. Coaches with winning records can get fired. DD is nothing to brag about BUT I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that with what he had, he was atleast able to dominate a spare Sunbelt and manage to get one bowl win.

By the way, there is no reason why we can't become the next Boise State, TCU, Utah or hell even a damn good BCS program. All it takes is damn vision and committment which we have none of that at UNT. Boise State actually has vision while UNT is the complete opposite and really dont care much about the vision too.

foutsrouts · November 24, 2008

Plumm ranted:
If even any "one" of DD's 4 bowl teams had been ranked near or in the Top 25, he would still be in Denton today and it would probably be a toss-up whether to have his or Hayden Fry's name on the upcoming new stadium; that is, if our new football palace is not going to be named after some corporation (which many of us still think will play a big part in its eventual construction).
I really did not like some of the things I posted about Coach Dickey in hindsight, but what was posted back then was coming from an NT alum who as an NT student supported Mean Green football teams that (no matter how you slice it) did have some key wins over some key name football schools. This is still the barometer for many of us Old Gun Alums today. Had their been as many bowls back in 1975 as there are today, the University of Tennessee Vols (who we beat in 1975) would have been in a bowl since they did finish with a winning record in 1975.
What I said during the last 2 years of DD Ball was merely in context as to what many of us still felt this program should be doing with winning records which would be tantamount to what our former Big West conference-mate, ie, the Boise State Broncos were doing with their own annual winning records and bowl teams, that's all. Can you blame us old NT foagies for thinking that UNT should expect no less than what the Broncos were getting with their winning seasons and bowl teams?
Still............we can all only wish the best for Coach Dickey and right now we might all agree that even winning (bowl) teams annually ranked toward the Bottom 25 would be better than what we've had of late. The barometer for Mean Green football success has still apparently not been set high in Denton under present leadership and I don't know why.
I still don't think its time to throw in the towel just yet, but Coach Dodge really needs a good recruiting year filled with Juco's (most likely) who can start, he needs an above .500 season in his upcoming 3'rd year and who is to say that in the conference we're in that we can't have just that? It's just that I don't think we will have such (even if successful in 2009) at the same level that the Boise State's of the NCAA D1-A world are having when they have winning seasons with ranked bowl teams, that's all. For many of us, we are really starting from scratch with this and have no idea where any of this is heading and for those from the Mean Joe Greene era thru the Fry years in Denton, all this is a source of great frustration. "
Shaft says:
Instead of hi-jacking another thread, I thought give this its own space.
The Big West was bad for UNT and good for a bad Boise team.
The spread out nature of the Big West was bad for our pocket book, and good for theirs.
The Mountain Time Zone focus was bad for our press, and good for theirs.
Boise got a better coach, better facilities, and their own bowl which help them take over a conference and develop into the team they are today.
Your soap box rant about UNT deserves better is tired.
What does 1975, Fry, or Mean Joe have to do with our current situation.
There was no golden age of UNT football. DD was the best thing that happen to this program and fans like you came on the board and moaned about it.

Yeah, other than the Dickey bowl years, I guess the closest thing that we have had to a golden age around here was the late 50's, late 60's, and the late 70's. The 1AA late 80's weren't too bad either. We had some good years back then and beat some pretty good opponents. For some reason we played our best in the second half of decades back then. Somehow it doesn't appear that Dodge will revive that tradition this decade.

greenminer · November 24, 2008

Hell's bells!

Green Dozer · November 24, 2008

By the way, there is no reason why we can't become the next Boise State, TCU, Utah or hell even a damn good BCS program. All it takes is damn vision and committment which we have none of that at UNT. Boise State actually has vision while UNT is the complete opposite and really dont care much about the vision too.

Green Mean, good positive post. Made me think of a menu though

UNT = -$0

Boise State = $$

Utah or TCU = $$$

BCS = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ (Univ. of Tx athletic budget is $121 million. $14 million is football and mor than pays for itself, program gave a substantial donation to the university)

Guess we need to decide what we want to eat, and go pick our restaurant.

WHERE WE ARE NOW RELATIVE TO MOST OTHER SCHOOLS OUR SIZE (AND THE 4TH LARGEST IN TX)

Edited November 24, 2008 by Green Dozer

KingDL1 · November 24, 2008

If the best thing to ever happen to this program was a guy whose career record was 42-64........let me jump off this ship right now.
Hey we can do better than Dickey. And we can damn sure do better than Dodge.

I hear if Dodge submits a plan the Federal government will likely bail him out.

Now if Dodge and team show up born again hard next season, Hell, we may even allow Dodge to serve as a head coach of our beloved Mean Green a few more years.

Otherwise, I think RV better start shopping over the next year.

risinggreen · November 24, 2008

I hear if Dodge submits a plan the Federal government will likely bail him out.

Will they bail out our players too?

FirefightnRick · November 25, 2008

Shaft says:
Your soap box rant about UNT deserves better is tired.
What does 1975, Fry, or Mean Joe have to do with our current situation.
There was no golden age of UNT football. DD was the best thing that happen to this program and fans like you came on the board and moaned about it.

What I ask is, Who cares what Shaft says? So because you disagree with Plum on one thread you had to start another separate one just to make your point? Pointless! And if his post was to you a tired rant then why start another thread to debate that all over again? Even more pointless!

And by the way, what have you ever added in the way of anything worth reading here? Nothing but constant negative criticisms and attacks on our posters, our coaches and our players is all I ever see from you. I read that above and thought "what a POS you are?" to go after one of our all time greatest fans on their B Day simply because you don't agree with their oppinion over something that happened several years backs.

Unbelievable.

Rick

Edited November 25, 2008 by FirefightnRick

eulessismore · November 25, 2008

Will they bail out our players too?

Only those with "toxic debt".

oldguystudent · November 25, 2008

So much love in the Mean Green Nation. Now if you'll pardon me, I'm busy stockpiling some stones to toss.

UNT2012 · November 25, 2008

holy smokes

eulessismore · November 25, 2008

So much love in the Mean Green Nation. Now if you'll pardon me, I'm busy stockpiling some stones to toss.

I liked the ultimate fighting challenge last week so much better. Yep, I'm a wimp when it comes to personally taking a beating. My slogan, "No pain, no pain"!

Aquila_Viridis · November 25, 2008

Shaft says:
Instead of hi-jacking another thread, I thought give this its own space.
The Big West was bad for UNT and good for a bad Boise team.
The spread out nature of the Big West was bad for our pocket book, and good for theirs.
The Mountain Time Zone focus was bad for our press, and good for theirs.
Boise got a better coach, better facilities, and their own bowl which help them take over a conference and develop into the team they are today.
Your soap box rant about UNT deserves better is tired.
What does 1975, Fry, or Mean Joe have to do with our current situation.
There was no golden age of UNT football. DD was the best thing that happen to this program and fans like you came on the board and moaned about it.

Boise has been successful in a much more improbable place. It is a perfectly valid point of comparison. Your point 4 mentions some of the different things they did that led to success, which is exactly what PMG was saying. The fact is, you are soul mates. That is no way to treat your soul mate.

Arkstfan · November 25, 2008

Just because you apparently didn't hire the right guy to replace a negative person who was half-hearted in their recruiting doesn't mean getting rid of them was the wrong decision.

shaft · November 25, 2008

To FFR:

A while back some one told me that my posts resulted in people going to other private message boards. That's what I contribute to the board. A dissenting opinion, that exposes the blind logic of fanatics. I like to think I lighted up the cave that is gomeangreen.com

I say UNT is not like Boise State because of off the field issues, so they are bad benchmark to compare ourselves to.

wardly · November 26, 2008

actually, north texas is more like ball state than others mentioned. it's about a hour from indy, has no t.v. station, in a second tier conference, and in a town [muncie] about the same size as denton. based upon 05' data, its athletic budget is simular to ours. i don't know about their athletic facalities, or whether indiana uses taxpayers money for college athletics, but their student enrollment is probably half ours. our biggest problem is a lack of "generious" giving by out alumni, refered to as the "lean green". perhaps this is to be expected from a former teachers/commuter school best known for its music department.

NT80 · November 26, 2008

actually, north texas is more like ball state than others mentioned. it's about a hour from indy, has no t.v. station, in a second tier conference, and in a town [muncie] about the same size as denton. based upon 05' data, its athletic budget is simular to ours. i don't know about their athletic facalities, or whether indiana uses taxpayers money for college athletics, but their student enrollment is probably half ours. our biggest problem is a lack of "generious" giving by out alumni, refered to as the "lean green". perhaps this is to be expected from a former teachers/commuter school best known for its music department.

Good points. If we only had our own David Letterman giving us some National pub. and money for a building.