Maybe Dickey Was Right

[Brett Vito]

Denton Record-Chronicle

[UNT_playmaker]

Dickey was right about the situation at NT.

Good work Vito....

[greenminer]

Not a fan of this article.

Never one to get on the Vito conspiracy train, but I can't see what the need was for a "Boys-maybe-we-really-are-college-football-craptastic" article.

[jimmyjames_99]

For some reason the article reminded me of the saying, "a broken clock is still right twice a day."

[Eagle1855]

well this is a disappointing article, in my opinion. Not because it is negative about UNT- there are certainly many justifications for negative press surrounding this program- but because it shows how little Vito knows about how bad things were the last couple years of Dickey's tenure... off the field, with problems Dickey created. Bummer

Edited November 24, 2008 by Eagle1855

[Huff]

Darrell Dickey is not the only one to complain about North Texas being a tough place to get things done. Matt Simon repeatedly complained about a lack of facilities and university support and even Rick Villarreal has been heard to complain about Denton being the only place that he had been that did not have its own TV station and had a newspaper that did not support the athletic program as he wanted it to. Maybe all three of them are right.

[untbowler]

I call absolutely BS!!

Dodge has had every amenity that DD did not have and look what it has gotten him.

As for the stadium comment, is our field different dimensions than other fields? Last check we have the same size field as every other football team in the country. The stadium is a cop-out excuse, put out a winning football team and it changes everything. Respect the fans and leave the ego at the door also helps.

[Green Mean]

Maybe UNT just is what it is. I mean in life you are what you are. Can it change? Sure. But the whole UNT fabric regarding many things including athletics really sucks. Just my opinion.

Edited November 24, 2008 by Green Mean

[mad dog]

I think Vito knows exactly what was going on at the end of Dickey's tenure. I just don't think that was particularly germane to his point: North Texas is a difficult place to win. During Dickey's tenure, you can kinda see his point. Lifting and training in what amounted to a dank closet, practicing on a recreation field, and playing games on a surface that was often as hard as concrete... these things just don't contribute to a winning program. Yet Coach Dickey did win, and did find a way to be successful in spite of challenges that just aren't present today.

Now I don't think Dickey was let go before his time had come. Clearly the program was on a downward slide, and some of the meltdowns at the end really contributed to his firing. There's no way to get around that. I'm just a little nervous that we've kept adding (rec center, playing fields, new athletic fee, new stadium in the works), and kept getting worse.

I have to admit it. I'm a little uneasy endorsing Dodge for another year given the product on and off the field.

[PlummMeanGreen]

If even any "one" of DD's 4 bowl teams had been ranked near or in the Top 25, he would still be in Denton today and it would probably be a toss-up whether to have his or Hayden Fry's name on the upcoming new stadium; that is, if our new football palace is not going to be named after some corporation (which many of us still think will play a big part in its eventual construction).

I really did not like some of the things I posted about Coach Dickey in hindsight, but what was posted back then was coming from an NT alum who as an NT student supported Mean Green football teams that (no matter how you slice it) did have some key wins over some key name football schools. This is still the barometer for many of us Old Gun Alums today. Had their been as many bowls back in 1975 as there are today, the University of Tennessee Vols (who we beat in 1975) would have been in a bowl since they did finish with a winning record in 1975.

What I said during the last 2 years of DD Ball was merely in context as to what many of us still felt this program should be doing with winning records which would be tantamount to what our former Big West conference-mate, ie, the Boise State Broncos were doing with their own annual winning records and bowl teams, that's all. Can you blame us old NT foagies for thinking that UNT should expect no less than what the Broncos were getting with their winning seasons and bowl teams?

Still............we can all only wish the best for Coach Dickey and right now we might all agree that even winning (bowl) teams annually ranked toward the Bottom 25 would be better than what we've had of late. The barometer for Mean Green football success has still apparently not been set high in Denton under present leadership and I don't know why.

I still don't think its time to throw in the towel just yet, but Coach Dodge really needs a good recruiting year filled with Juco's (most likely) who can start, he needs an above .500 season in his upcoming 3'rd year and who is to say that in the conference we're in that we can't have just that? It's just that I don't think we will have such (even if successful in 2009) at the same level that the Boise State's of the NCAA D1-A world are having when they have winning seasons with ranked bowl teams, that's all. For many of us, we are really starting from scratch with this and have no idea where any of this is heading and for those from the Mean Joe Greene era thru the Fry years in Denton, all this is a source of great frustration.

Edited November 24, 2008 by PlummMeanGreen

[KAjunRaider]

Will NT be ready by the time another conference shuffle comes around ?

[shaft]

Dickey succeeded because his scheme fit UNT. Dicky was fired because he failed to adjust his system to UNT's changing situation.

[Quoner]

Will NT be ready by the time another conference shuffle comes around ?

Remember when we used to all look down our nose at you and talk about how we deserved CUSA?

Those were good times...

[Green Mean]

Remember when we used to all look down our nose at you and talk about how we deserved CUSA?

Those were good times...

I think most on this board still feel that way unfortunately . Cheers to the good times when there actually were good times in this program.

[Guest JohnDenver]

Remember when we used to all look down our nose at you and talk about how we deserved CUSA?

Those were good times...

Those times were good indeed, because MTSU had the seksy offense with Hicks4Heisman, and they equally looked down their noses at us because they were on the fast track to the SEC.

[Eagle1855]

I think Vito knows exactly what was going on at the end of Dickey's tenure. I just don't think that was particularly germane to his point: North Texas is a difficult place to win.

I thought about that after making my post and I agree... I could go back and edit my post, but Im right so often I think I'll enjoy being wrong for once. (just. a. joke.)

Regarding the topic at hand, I have a hard time taking anything Dickey said seriously because of the things that were going on, which is why I posted what I did. That being said, Dodge has had more resources and more support than ever before. That, of course, doesn't make it on-par with major programs. But I gotta figure even the likes of UH, Troy, La Tech or other "peer institutions" have about the same amount (or maybe even less) resources and they seem to make do just fine. Dodge's seeming inability to adapt his game to our players and D1 is what stands out to me. But Im no expert on anything, so I revert you back to the first line of this comment.

[TIgreen01]

I think Vito knows exactly what was going on at the end of Dickey's tenure. I just don't think that was particularly germane to his point: North Texas is a difficult place to win. During Dickey's tenure, you can kinda see his point. Lifting and training in what amounted to a dank closet, practicing on a recreation field, and playing games on a surface that was often as hard as concrete... these things just don't contribute to a winning program. Yet Coach Dickey did win, and did find a way to be successful in spite of challenges that just aren't present today.

Now I don't think Dickey was let go before his time had come. Clearly the program was on a downward slide, and some of the meltdowns at the end really contributed to his firing. There's no way to get around that. I'm just a little nervous that we've kept adding (rec center, playing fields, new athletic fee, new stadium in the works), and kept getting worse.

I have to admit it. I'm a little uneasy endorsing Dodge for another year given the product on and off the field.

I think much of this article is not that bad and generally pretty honest. But, again, Vito goes over the line and seems to try to hammer home the idea that Dickey was right and UNT and everyone else was wrong for firing him. I guess I just don't understand why there would be a need to write this article....which will appear in the town paper (DRC) and the backyard of supposed support for UNT. Is the purpose to slap us all in the face so that we get up and take action....or to merely pile on while UNT football is down??

I really don't get it....Brett is either a die-hard fan like the rest of us on gmg and is just using his editorials as an outlet or he's just a guy that needs a change of scenery.

Edited November 24, 2008 by TIgreen01

[aztecskin]

Whether or not the article is necessary is subjective. If you think UNT needs a kick in the a$$ to improve things, then yes, it is necessary. If you think the Vito is a die-hard venting a little, then yes it is necessary. If it is to just talk some mess, and stir up some old bitterness, then yes, it is ... for him. Dude will get page views, sell more papers, etc. but it won't help the university if that was his only goal.

I don't pretend to care, though.

I've talked about this before, so I'll just hit the highlights here: We are a third rate University prestige-wise. We need the current and former students to be successful in order to get people talking about WHY they were successful. The answer will then be: "I went to UNT"

Get rich. Donate. Get involved.

Edited November 24, 2008 by aztecskin

[Green Mean]

Whether or not the article is necessary is subjective. If you think UNT needs a kick in the a$$ to improve things, then yes, it is necessary. If you think the Vito is a die-hard venting a little, then yes it is necessary. If it is to just talk some mess, and stir up some old bitterness, then yes, it is ... for him. Dude will get page views, sell more papers, etc. but it won't help the university if that was his only goal.

I don't pretend to care, though.

I've talked about this before, so I'll just hit the highlights here: We are a third rate University prestige-wise. We need the current and former students to be successful in order to get people talking about WHY they were successful. The answer will then be: "I went to UNT"

Get rich. Donate. Get involved.

Excellent post.

[SilverEagle]

In some ways Dickey is right. This is a difficult coaching situation because of our past (administrative) history, and our inability (or unwillingness) to get everything going at the same time.

Fry started dragging us into the modern era of football, but when he got tired of fighting with everyone for the least little bit of resources, he decided that Iowa was a much better situation......and it was.

Corky Nelson was the most successful coach we've ever had under the "circumstances" that Dickey complained about. He fielded a lot of very good teams, and did it on the stingy budget that the administrators gave him. Some say he drank too much, but hell I don't blame him. I've never seen a coach at North Texas do more with less resources.

It seems like every time we hire a new coach, our administrators/decision makers seem wake up in a new world.

[Green Dozer]

Excellent post.

I second that. That said, a stadium is not the medicine to cure the patient here. 17 coaches, 5 with a record over .500. In round numbers, 70% of the men who have been head football coaches at UNT have not been able to get above .500. Yet, we still want to blame them because we are where we are. Some even have the audacity to say we need to get back to winning. You can't give these guys bb guns to hunt elephants. And you can't expect Dodge or the next coach to do much better just because they have a few more bb's than the other coaches. Dickey and Simon are right in a lot of ways. Before somebody posts back and says well Dodge this or that, is out of his league, a dumb butt, etc., I am totally aware of the failures we have seen here over the past 2 seasons. It is not just this present group of alumni who have not donated, it is a whole history. The attitude is changing for the better. And Silver will rightfully point out that a few administrations shut them out. But if we want to reach what many on this board believe is our potential, then we and a lot others have to start anew and donate. Alumnae to have to not only demand they want better, but take action as well. A lot of you I realize do the best you can, never let anybody look down their noses at you. Not all of us have a hedge fund that is fluctuating by a few million and we can just laugh about it. But, for every one person you know at the tailgate, I bet some of you know 5 or 6 alumni who laugh and snicker about you being there, but do not want to step up and take some pride. They would rather put on a State U cap and cry about what every win means to them, yet they do not have one hour of degree work invested in that school. I will tell you I root for another school like a lot of you, and like the majority here, if it comes down to UNT's game, I am where I feel the most responsibility as fan to be at. We cannot count on some corportation or even a few dumping $30 million to fund half the stadium. Money is not everything, but without it you have nothing.

1855, you are right, somebody needs to go to U of H's athletic department and look into how they have built their program back up. No, we are not near downtown Dallas, but we are in a large metro area competing with other colleges in the area, pro sports dollars, etc. and a lot of other entertainment type things. They, like us, carry a commuter tag. I have read good things about the program, and how they have brought it back up. It was pretty impressive with the folks they brought to our home basketball game against them a couple of years ago, even if they were in Ft. Worth for a bowl game. UoH would be a good measuring stick.

In ref to Vito's column, it was jab, jab, then bam. Part of it is right, but he really took some shots.

[ADLER]

Wow, things must be pretty difficult at North Texas. How stellar has Dickey's record been at all his other stops? I know he has been an assistant at LSU, Memphis, UTEP, SMU, Utah State, and possibly others. Wasn't he a even a grad assistant at KSU? How did that all work for him, did he have a winning record at each place? Did all the head coaches at those schools get promoted to higher profile jobs?

[SUMG]

Think Dickey has a shot at being on Snyder's staff? I bet he does, but not as OC. Maybe QB coach.

[ADLER]

Think Dickey has a shot at being on Snyder's staff? I bet he does, but not as OC. Maybe QB coach.

I think that's exactly where he'll wind up. It should be a good fit for him.

[Aquila_Viridis]

This is a tough place to win because our school is not committed to winning. If it were, we wouldn't have had these last two jokers for coaches or the ones before them. No doubt the school administration would say 'au contraire' - yes they would actually say that - 'it's because the alumni and students are not committed'. To that, I would say, only the school administration can do the work necessary to build support among the students and alumni. This is one reason we have government, to coordinate and focus the otherwise random and wandering interests of the people. With respect to this issue, the school administration is the government. However, they are asleep at the wheel.

This is not a situation where we have to wait decades for successful alumni. In fact we have many of them now. If you think otherwise then you have bought into the same false impression that our miserable football experience unfortunately supports. What we need is our school to take this issue by the horns right now and work tirelessly to persuade people to donate to this specific cause.