Rucker Arrest Story

[Guest JohnDenver]

I am not sure I can call a person a friend who does this to you.

Exactly. But what is your point?

I guess you have never learned that someone you loved/liked a lot, wasn't entirely the person you knew? I had a ton of friends when I was younger that fell into addictive patterns, or lied under pressure, or white lied non-stop, or peed on my couch and never told me.

ESPECIALLY(!) when medical studies all show that the male brain doesn't fully develop until the ripe age of 23. It shows that young males me dangerous and impromptu decisions, without thinking it out.

[Guest JohnDenver]

...So once the offense is reported, the financial institution becomes the victim and only they have the right to drop the charges.

So... in KRAM's world, their reporting of the crime, instead of having him pay the bills, has screwed you and me (card consumers). I am OUTRAGED!

[UNT90]

Exactly. But what is your point?

I guess you have never learned that someone you loved/liked a lot, wasn't entirely the person you knew? I had a ton of friends when I was younger that fell into addictive patterns, or lied under pressure, or white lied non-stop, or peed on my couch and never told me.

ESPECIALLY(!) when medical studies all show that the male brain doesn't fully develop until the ripe age of 23. It shows that young males me dangerous and impromptu decisions, without thinking it out.

My bet is the parents reported this since it was probably thier card. The "friend" probably had no choice in the matter. But continue on with the hypothetical argument...

[Guest JohnDenver]

My bet is the parents reported this since it was probably thier card. The "friend" probably had no choice in the matter. But continue on with the hypothetical argument...

Well, that is a good point. It likely wasn't her card. She was just a user of it.

Game off.

Hang him high!

If this happened to my wife, her parents wouldn't have pressed charges.

If this happened to me, my mother would have pressed charges with urging of the stiffest penalty.

[UNT90]

Well, that is a good point. It likely wasn't her card. She was just a user of it.

Game off.

Hang him high!

If this happened to my wife, her parents wouldn't have pressed charges.

If this happened to me, my mother would have pressed charges with urging of the stiffest penalty.

I bet a quick guilty plea and 2 years Deferred Adjudication....unless they uncover numerous "friends" credit cards in his dorm room, god forbid!!!

[Travis]

Exactly. But what is your point?

I guess you have never learned that someone you loved/liked a lot, wasn't entirely the person you knew? I had a ton of friends when I was younger that fell into addictive patterns, or lied under pressure, or white lied non-stop, or peed on my couch and never told me.

ESPECIALLY(!) when medical studies all show that the male brain doesn't fully develop until the ripe age of 23. It shows that young males me dangerous and impromptu decisions, without thinking it out.

Hell, I am not sure the male brain ever fully develops.

My point is I keep hearing about it being a friend who does this. I am just saying that I am not so sure a friend does that.

But, since I am at the mic... I keep hearing things like it is just money and at least it was a friend.... as if it makes the theft any different. I think that suffering (assuming the right amount) is good if it is the just consequence. You reap what you sow. and i think it right to be held accountable to your actions. That is, i believe, how people grow up...

You are right that even the closest people can surprise you with the decisions they make. And, i have had my share of people doing crappy things in my life. But, that doesn't mean you have to continue to be close to someone who poops on your trust. I have done crappy things to others. And, their distance is my just reward.

Edited November 21, 2008 by Travis

[stebo]

The deferred adjudication only keeps a GUILTY off of the record - it still shows the incident happened. Many companies will not hire a person based on the incident being on there at all. There is this huge misconception that those incidents just get wiped off your record. If it is a traffic ticket - yes... not an actual crime. It is there forever. While companies are not supposed to judge a candidate on these things, it is always there on the background check. If the company really wants to hire the guy, maybe they overlook it - but if it between him and someone with nothing on the record, the clean record wins out. Especially since this involved money, he certainly won't be eligible for a job dealing with banks or any financial matters.

I had a guy working for me from a temp agency and he was a rock star employee. We tried to bring him on full time and did his background check to find out that he has behind on his student loan payments. Well, most companies (including mine) will not hire a person that has defaulted on more than 10K worth of debt. So you have a person that is out of work for "x" amount of months... they finally get an opportunity through a temp agency and go in to prove themselves... that person does great and is finally going to get employment with benefits and guess what?? Because they got behind (due to unemployment) - they cannot get full time work. And from what I understand, my company is pretty lenient on background and credit checks. Most companies these days don't let you have up to $10K of defaulted debt, if you have bad credit - you don't get the job. Same goes for these "deferred" guilty pleas... can we legally discriminate on it? No... but we can sure as heck decide to go with another candidate based on their "qualifications". No reason needs to be given as to why someone does or does not get a job.

[Guest JohnDenver]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2007-0...een-brain_N.htm

Neurological researchers around the country, spearheaded by Jay Giedd of the National Institute of Mental Health, have in recent years found that the brain is not fully developed until after 18. The brain system that regulates logic and reasoning develops before the area that regulates impulse and emotions, the researchers say.

Studies by Steinberg and others have found that the mere physical presence of peers increased the likelihood of teens taking risks.

This isn't a free pass. It is an explanation for why teens (which he is) do risky things.

[Cerebus]

I guess you have never learned that someone you loved/liked a lot, wasn't entirely the person you knew? I had a ton of friends when I was younger that fell into addictive patterns, or lied under pressure, or white lied non-stop, or peed on my couch and never told me.

LET IT GO MAN.

Not like I didn't buy you a new couch...

[UNT90]

The deferred adjudication only keeps a GUILTY off of the record - it still shows the incident happened. Many companies will not hire a person based on the incident being on there at all. There is this huge misconception that those incidents just get wiped off your record. If it is a traffic ticket - yes... not an actual crime. It is there forever. While companies are not supposed to judge a candidate on these things, it is always there on the background check. If the company really wants to hire the guy, maybe they overlook it - but if it between him and someone with nothing on the record, the clean record wins out. Especially since this involved money, he certainly won't be eligible for a job dealing with banks or any financial matters.

I had a guy working for me from a temp agency and he was a rock star employee. We tried to bring him on full time and did his background check to find out that he has behind on his student loan payments. Well, most companies (including mine) will not hire a person that has defaulted on more than 10K worth of debt. So you have a person that is out of work for "x" amount of months... they finally get an opportunity through a temp agency and go in to prove themselves... that person does great and is finally going to get employment with benefits and guess what?? Because they got behind (due to unemployment) - they cannot get full time work. And from what I understand, my company is pretty lenient on background and credit checks. Most companies these days don't let you have up to $10K of defaulted debt, if you have bad credit - you don't get the job. Same goes for these "deferred" guilty pleas... can we legally discriminate on it? No... but we can sure as heck decide to go with another candidate based on their "qualifications". No reason needs to be given as to why someone does or does not get a job.

Pretty sure that the only organizations that would have access to the Deferred record would be law enforcement and District Attorney's Office. Even if I'm wrong (which I doubt), he could always petition the court for expungement of his criminal record. If granted, not even law enforcement (except for the county in which the offense occurred) could access that record.

Edited November 21, 2008 by UNT90

[TIgreen01]

The dude used the card 26 times. TWENTY SIX. That is not an impulse decision...that is a repeated behavior. Getting in credit trouble is understandable in some instances (like losing your job and getting behind on student loans).

Stop making apples to oranges comparisons, people.

TWENTY SIX times he used the card. He's guilty, turned himself in and he'll receive a fair punishment. Should society throw him away for good? No...but hopefully he'll learn from this and someone will give him a chance to prove he has.

Edited November 21, 2008 by TIgreen01

[Charlie NT 73]

This whole story is full of holes. I think FR is the fall guy for something else.

Student "A", the girl who owns the card, gets a call from her parents regarding

current charging and the amounts charged.

Student A claims she has not used the card for a month, and did not know

the card was missing. At the same time, FR is text messaging Student A,

about using the card. Student A, knew all along who had possission of the card.

Why not ask for the card back at this point?

Now, do you know any college student with a credit card, especially a girl,

that does not use their credit card for a month, muchless not knowing

where the card is kept? Like your pocket book/bill fold that you look into

everyday? Yeah right! I like this next part!

Mysteriously, the card reappears on the floor of the Victory Hall lobby,

and found by Student "B". Out of all the people who live in Victory Hall,

the one who finds the card, is non other than Student B, a friend of Student A.

Why would FR dump the card on the floor of Victory Hall, when he knows the

owner of the card? Why not just give the card back to student A?

Student B who has possession of Student A's card, and who knows Student A,

does not return the found card immediately - -

The card is returned 2 days later for crying out loud! Why 2 days later?

Now Student A and Student B have a pow wow to get their story straight,

and develop a plot that will explain how the card turned up missing,

how to account for the charges, find suspects, and keep their rear ends in the clear.

Student B and Student A determine there are 4 suspects that had access

to Student A's room, including FR, but not naming Student B as having access also.

These two determine FR is the guy. None one else could have done this. After

the cops have documented proof and a confession from FR about using the card.

I do not think the card was stolen at all. I think Student A gave the card to FR

to use, only FR ran up too many charges, which the parents of Student A are

wanting to know about. I think this could be a boy friend/girl friend spat, and the

girl is trying to protect herself from her parents anger. Thats my 2 cents.

[TIgreen01]

This whole story is full of holes. I think FR is the fall guy for something else.

Student "A", the girl who owns the card, gets a call from her parents regarding

current charging and the amounts charged.

Student A claims she has not used the card for a month, and did not know

the card was missing. At the same time, FR is text messaging Student A,

about using the card. Student A, knew all along who had possission of the card.

Why not ask for the card back at this point?

Now, do you know any college student with a credit card, especially a girl,

that does not use their credit card for a month, muchless not knowing

where the card is kept? Like your pocket book/bill fold that you look into

everyday? Yeah right! I like this next part!

Mysteriously, the card reappears on the floor of the Victory Hall lobby,

and found by Student "B". Out of all the people who live in Victory Hall,

the one who finds the card, is non other than Student B, a friend of Student A.

Why would FR dump the card on the floor of Victory Hall, when he knows the

owner of the card? Why not just give the card back to student A?

Student B who has possession of Student A's card, and who knows Student A,

does not return the found card immediately - -

The card is returned 2 days later for crying out loud! Why 2 days later?

Now Student A and Student B have a pow wow to get their story straight,

and develop a plot that will explain how the card turned up missing,

how to account for the charges, find suspects, and keep their rear ends in the clear.

Student B and Student A determine there are 4 suspects that had access

to Student A's room, including FR, but not naming Student B as having access also.

These two determine FR is the guy. None one else could have done this. After

the cops have documented proof and a confession from FR about using the card.

I do not think the card was stolen at all. I think Student A gave the card to FR

to use, only FR ran up too many charges, which the parents of Student A are

wanting to know about. I think this could be a boy friend/girl friend spat, and the

girl is trying to protect herself from her parents anger. Thats my 2 cents.

You watch too many NCIS/Law&Order/etc shows! Seriously, though...if that turns out to be what really happened, then I scratch my last post entirely!

[VideoEagle]

This whole story is full of holes. ...Thats my 2 cents.

You certain give a lot for 2 cents! It is also a very logical answer to what happened and makes more sense than the official story.

[Quoner]

I guess the psychology of credit card fraud is much more fascinating than drug use.

[stebo]

Pretty sure that the only organizations that would have access to the Deferred record would be law enforcement and District Attorney's Office. Even if I'm wrong (which I doubt), he could always petition the court for expungement of his criminal record. If granted, not even law enforcement (except for the county in which the offense occurred) could access that record.

You are somewhat right - the details of the case would be gone, but the arrest would always be there. There is no possible way to get an arrest off of your record without expungement and that usually takes going up the ladder practically to the lt governor. In some cases, it is worse to not have the details because you can't ask about it. Deferred is still a guilty plea - so if you lie on an application (Have you ever been found guilty of a felony crime), it hurts your chances as well. How do you answer that? The answer is kind of yes and kind of no. Either way, my point was - this could have easily been worked out between the parents and the player. Maybe they did try to work it out, I don't know. It doesn't sound like they tried to work it out though. And the 26 thing just makes me laugh, the new vending machines on campus take cards - so if you go get a coke, that is one... you go to get some chips, that is two... some cookies, that is three. The amount of dollars should be looked at, not the amount of swipes in my opinion. Less than $400 bucks should be a misdemeanor, not a felony. I really don't think that I need my tax dollars going to a public defender to help this guy plea a case that shouldn't have happened in the first place. I think that the UNT cops got so dang excited that they were able to have a "case" of this magnitude that they jumped all over it. They are used to riding their bikes, giving out parking tickets... and occasionally - if they get REALLY lucky, they can write a ticket for urination in public if a kid can't hold it until he/she makes it back to their dorm from Fry Street

[VideoEagle]

they can write a ticket for urination in public if a kid can't hold it until he/she makes it back to their dorm from Fry Street

They told me that was expunged.

[Travis]

Thats my 2 cents.

My 2 cents say that you aren't being completely honest. Interesting how your little story has a hole or two in it as well.

You thought it would get by us but it didn't. tell me this charlie... who was the 4th person?! You came up with this elaborate scheme but you failed to mention who the 4th person was. I thnk you know this rabbit hole goes a bit further... perhaps, to you. (DUM DUM DUM)

You and FR had a fun spending spree at the expense of someone else.

Since your partner in crime is busted you know that with enough work it will eventually lead back to you... So, cleverly, you redirect the story back at the victim and the victim's most loyal friend.

Well played but i see through your diabolical scheme.

[UNT90]

This whole story is full of holes. I think FR is the fall guy for something else.

Student "A", the girl who owns the card, gets a call from her parents regarding

current charging and the amounts charged.

Student A claims she has not used the card for a month, and did not know

the card was missing. At the same time, FR is text messaging Student A,

about using the card. Student A, knew all along who had possission of the card.

Why not ask for the card back at this point?

Now, do you know any college student with a credit card, especially a girl,

that does not use their credit card for a month, muchless not knowing

where the card is kept? Like your pocket book/bill fold that you look into

everyday? Yeah right! I like this next part!

Mysteriously, the card reappears on the floor of the Victory Hall lobby,

and found by Student "B". Out of all the people who live in Victory Hall,

the one who finds the card, is non other than Student B, a friend of Student A.

Why would FR dump the card on the floor of Victory Hall, when he knows the

owner of the card? Why not just give the card back to student A?

Student B who has possession of Student A's card, and who knows Student A,

does not return the found card immediately - -

The card is returned 2 days later for crying out loud! Why 2 days later?

Now Student A and Student B have a pow wow to get their story straight,

and develop a plot that will explain how the card turned up missing,

how to account for the charges, find suspects, and keep their rear ends in the clear.

Student B and Student A determine there are 4 suspects that had access

to Student A's room, including FR, but not naming Student B as having access also.

These two determine FR is the guy. None one else could have done this. After

the cops have documented proof and a confession from FR about using the card.

I do not think the card was stolen at all. I think Student A gave the card to FR

to use, only FR ran up too many charges, which the parents of Student A are

wanting to know about. I think this could be a boy friend/girl friend spat, and the

girl is trying to protect herself from her parents anger. Thats my 2 cents.

OR he could have confessed to police, who, being knowledgable about this type of crime and knowing that the crime must be committed intentionally or knowingly, probably established his culpability (that he did the offense intentionally and knowingly) in the confession.

Whenever you have write that much to attempt to justify someone's actions, your just working to hard.....my 2 cents

[Travis]

Whenever you have write that much to attempt to justify someone's actions, your just working to hard.....my 2 cents

Or you can refer to my last post. umm. before this post.

DUM DUM DUM!

Edited November 21, 2008 by Travis

[FireFightnJoey]

This whole story is full of holes. I think FR is the fall guy for something else.

Student "A", the girl who owns the card, gets a call from her parents regarding

current charging and the amounts charged.

Student A claims she has not used the card for a month, and did not know

the card was missing. At the same time, FR is text messaging Student A,

about using the card. Student A, knew all along who had possission of the card.

Why not ask for the card back at this point?

Now, do you know any college student with a credit card, especially a girl,

that does not use their credit card for a month, muchless not knowing

where the card is kept? Like your pocket book/bill fold that you look into

everyday? Yeah right! I like this next part!

Mysteriously, the card reappears on the floor of the Victory Hall lobby,

and found by Student "B". Out of all the people who live in Victory Hall,

the one who finds the card, is non other than Student B, a friend of Student A.

Why would FR dump the card on the floor of Victory Hall, when he knows the

owner of the card? Why not just give the card back to student A?

Student B who has possession of Student A's card, and who knows Student A,

does not return the found card immediately - -

The card is returned 2 days later for crying out loud! Why 2 days later?

Now Student A and Student B have a pow wow to get their story straight,

and develop a plot that will explain how the card turned up missing,

how to account for the charges, find suspects, and keep their rear ends in the clear.

Student B and Student A determine there are 4 suspects that had access

to Student A's room, including FR, but not naming Student B as having access also.

These two determine FR is the guy. None one else could have done this. After

the cops have documented proof and a confession from FR about using the card.

I do not think the card was stolen at all. I think Student A gave the card to FR

to use, only FR ran up too many charges, which the parents of Student A are

wanting to know about. I think this could be a boy friend/girl friend spat, and the

girl is trying to protect herself from her parents anger. Thats my 2 cents.

That's more like a buck-22 worth...

I was thinking along the same lines. My first impression was that he probably was ok'd to use it and then little missy got in trouble, blah blah. Actually, if she gave him permission, no foul. It takes a lot more than just one person saying he did it in a case like this though. They would need pretty good documented proof, starting with the purchases. How can they identify him as the person at the counter? Even if he did confess, did he confess to those? On and on. I'll withhold judgement until the entire story comes out. Maybe he came forward because he saw he was getting the shaft, sometimes that is the best way.

[foutsrouts]

You are somewhat right - the details of the case would be gone, but the arrest would always be there. There is no possible way to get an arrest off of your record without expungement and that usually takes going up the ladder practically to the lt governor. In some cases, it is worse to not have the details because you can't ask about it. Deferred is still a guilty plea - so if you lie on an application (Have you ever been found guilty of a felony crime), it hurts your chances as well. How do you answer that? The answer is kind of yes and kind of no. Either way, my point was - this could have easily been worked out between the parents and the player. Maybe they did try to work it out, I don't know. It doesn't sound like they tried to work it out though. And the 26 thing just makes me laugh, the new vending machines on campus take cards - so if you go get a coke, that is one... you go to get some chips, that is two... some cookies, that is three. The amount of dollars should be looked at, not the amount of swipes in my opinion. Less than $400 bucks should be a misdemeanor, not a felony. I really don't think that I need my tax dollars going to a public defender to help this guy plea a case that shouldn't have happened in the first place. I think that the UNT cops got so dang excited that they were able to have a "case" of this magnitude that they jumped all over it. They are used to riding their bikes, giving out parking tickets... and occasionally - if they get REALLY lucky, they can write a ticket for urination in public if a kid can't hold it until he/she makes it back to their dorm from Fry Street

The expungement of an arrest record is no where near that difficult to obtain. I have an attorney in the family who does expungements all the time for felonies and misdemeanors. It's in the statutes and all you need is a willing judge. Personally, I think they should be automatic after a certain period of time when there is no conviction. I mean, it is supposed to be innocent until proven guilty, and in the information age that we live in why should a person's life be screwed with if they were not proven guilty? Deferred adjudication is a bit of a different story. It's basically a gift from the criminal justice system.

[UNT90]

Or you can refer to my last post. umm. before this post.

DUM DUM DUM!

The main point of the post was to communicate that he confessed, and that confession would most likely include statements that he knew he wasn't supposed to be using that card.

Wasn't trying to steal your thoughts.

[Charlie NT 73]

I watch too much CSI, now that Perry Mason

is no longer on TV.

[UNT90]

The expungement of an arrest record is no where near that difficult to obtain. I have an attorney in the family who does expungements all the time for felonies and misdemeanors. It's in the statutes and all you need is a willing judge. Personally, I think they should be automatic after a certain period of time when there is no conviction. I mean, it is supposed to be innocent until proven guilty, and in the information age that we live in why should a person's life be screwed with if they were not proven guilty? Deferred adjudication is a bit of a different story. It's basically a gift from the criminal justice system.

Your dead on about expungement. Not hard to get at all. Just takes some $$. Me thinks Stebo a little confused about the legal process. But that is completely understandable.