I Need Help

[Censored by Laurie]

This is an odd place to be asking...ok, very strange...but this has been bugging me (also the show Fringe kinda touched on it tonight)and there is bound to be someone who knows what I'm looking for.

Its the independent thought theory that states that no idea exists in the world until it is thought...I know that sounds sort of redundant...I think the best way to explain it is with an example: When Charles Darwin was conducting his research on the Galapogos Islands there was a scientist who was conducting almost identical research, I believe in Argentina, at the exact same time. It isn't the fact that two people were thinking the exact same thing at the same time...but the fact that said idea didn't exist for thousands of years until one of these guys, or perhaps someone else thought it and at that specific time in history.

I thought that it might tie into chaos theory, but I can't seem to find any correlating information.

Any information anyone can provide would be greatly beneficial. Also a good joke would work too...but preferably after someone has helped me figure this out

[forevereagle]

This is an odd place to be asking...ok, very strange...but this has been bugging me (also the show Fringe kinda touched on it tonight)and there is bound to be someone who knows what I'm looking for.

Its the independent thought theory that states that no idea exists in the world until it is thought...I know that sounds sort of redundant...I think the best way to explain it is with an example: When Charles Darwin was conducting his research on the Galapogos Islands there was a scientist who was conducting almost identical research, I believe in Argentina, at the exact same time. It isn't the fact that two people were thinking the exact same thing at the same time...but the fact that said idea didn't exist for thousands of years until one of these guys, or perhaps someone else thought it and at that specific time in history.

I thought that it might tie into chaos theory, but I can't seem to find any correlating information.

Any information anyone can provide would be greatly beneficial. Also a good joke would work too...but preferably after someone has helped me figure this out

I haven't ever heard of the independent thought theory, but the chaos theory could apply based on what you have described. The idea that a single, small thought, would have much larger implications in others elsewhere in the world is in line with chaos theory. I did some quick looking around and I didn't find any research either, but now that you have had the thought, maybe research will exist soon.

[Eagle1855]

I The idea that a single, small thought, would have much larger implications in others elsewhere in the world is in line with chaos theory.

But only if that person had some medium to convey that thought to the others elsewhere in the world, right?

That doesn't cover two seemingly independent persons having the same thought at the same time, without having any contact. That seems more random than chaotic, but Im quickly getting outside my scope of knowledge.

[Censored by Laurie]

But only if that person had some medium to convey that thought to the others elsewhere in the world, right?

That doesn't cover two seemingly independent persons having the same thought at the same time, without having any contact. That seems more random than chaotic, but Im quickly getting outside my scope of knowledge.

Thats the crux of the idea...taking again the example of Darwin and his contemporary...they had no knowledge of each other, let alone the work they were both conducting simultaniously...there wouldn't have been a medium through which these two could be linked...especially not within the time frame of their coinciding work.

[SilverEagle]

You're right, this is a strange place to ask the question.

Were Darwin and his contemporary both students/minions of a particular scientist/philosopher of that time? I can't remember what sparked Darwins interest in doing his research.

BTW, good choice of shows. My wife and I both like Fringe.

[Green P1]

My simple explanation would be to cite Hume's origin of all ideas. Some occurrence, be it in the Global spectrum or much smaller, gives off an impression leading to inquiry. As spectacular as the Darwin example is..... I'd have to assume that the same type of concurrence is happening continuously all over the world.

The more I think about my quick attempt at reasoning the less I like it......If I thought about it long enough I'd probably just delete this response altogether...... but then I'd have to replace it.....I fear I would soon find myself spiraling out of control......I very easily get caught up in the futility of thought....Its my only vice.

Edited November 19, 2008 by Green P1

[Guest JohnDenver]

I believe the notion that two scientists in the same field can't be completely independent. Even in the world of non-mass communication, word travels very effectively. My example would be creation myths. They were in different parts of the world, different (and same) times, extinct civilizations, etc... but they a lot ended up having virtually the same stories. The book of genesis isn't unique. I believe that word traveled orally very well.

Same goes for scientific thoughts. Maybe they didn't go to the same conferences, but they may have had friends at the those conferences and during their nightly beer drinking had talk about stuff... that lead to the same line of thinking for exterior individuals.

I can't sum that up as chaos theory. In my headball, at least.

[Censored by Laurie]

I believe the notion that two scientists in the same field can't be completely independent. Even in the world of non-mass communication, word travels very effectively. My example would be creation myths. They were in different parts of the world, different (and same) times, extinct civilizations, etc... but they a lot ended up having virtually the same stories. The book of genesis isn't unique. I believe that word traveled orally very well.

Same goes for scientific thoughts. Maybe they didn't go to the same conferences, but they may have had friends at the those conferences and during their nightly beer drinking had talk about stuff... that lead to the same line of thinking for exterior individuals.

I can't sum that up as chaos theory. In my headball, at least.

I'm not really trying to find out specifically about Darwin and his contemporary...or even really trying to explain how their work happened to coincide...I cited it as an example out of a lack of being able to come up with the right words...rather, I'm certain that there is a theory the proposes the idea that, say, these two men never met, never talked, never had any third, fourth or fifth hand knowledge of each other...yet they conducted the same work, simultaniously, in a way that had never been done before.

Green P1...Hume rings a bell...once I leave work and procure a fifth of Jameson I'll start scouring through Hume. Thanks

[Green P1]

Last night I randomly asked my good friend Webb, (the kind of guy that wins every argument by quoting some obscure philosophical figure that most have never heard of or studied) if he had any thoughts or insight into this matter. His response, "Ya know, I was just thinking about that a couple of weeks ago."

I swear to god my brain almost exploded......

He then went on to completely tear my Hume explanation into shreds....

[greenminer]

yes

[bstnsportsfan3]

i stoped reading after the first two sentences because my brain was hurting and its 1 am....

[MDH]

....... and this is why I'm a tax man