"take That Old Lady!"

[GreenMachine]

For those who knew (or at least had inklings (sp?)) that they were gay from a very young age, it was not a choice. Most issues in this world are not black and white, including this.

So you knew you were gay from the beginning? Just kidding. To be honest, I could care less, I'm straight as an arrow, I think I do though keep getting images of Quoner wearing leather chaps and nothing else and I must say, I like it.

Edited November 13, 2008 by GreenMachine

[JayDub]

To quote one of my best friends in the world...who is a flaming homosexual flight attendant...

"to those who think this is a choice...why the hell would anyone voluntarily put themselves through the bullshit the gays put up with?"

Edited November 13, 2008 by JayDub

[Green Mean]

I am not sure if its a choice fully....if you can get aroused from the same sex and like doing more than that then that part of it is natural thing in my book. Again it is not a matter if IF...it is a really a matter of WHEN the law will pass when gay marriage is accepted nationwide. It will happen. Bank on that.

[BeanCounterGrad'03]

So you knew you were gay from the beginning? Just kidding. To be honest, I could care less, I'm straight as an arrow, I think I do though keep getting images of Quoner wearing leather chaps and nothing else and I must say, I like it.

Maybe you're 98% straight, 2% gay.

Does the fact that I like Broadway musicals, Elton John, and Miata sports cars slide me down a notch or two on the heteroscale?

I feel a Bob & Dan Gay or Not Gay episode coming on.

[Guest JohnDenver]

What the Bible Really Says About Homosexuality

Helminiak, a Roman Catholic priest, has done careful reading in current biblical scholarship about homosexuality. While cautioning against viewing biblical teaching as "the last word on sexual ethics," he stresses the need for accurate understanding of what the biblical "facts" are and concludes that "the Bible supplies no real basis for the condemnation of homosexuality." Using the studies of Yale historian John Boswell (Same-Sex Unions in Premodern Europe, LJ 7/94), New Testament seminary professor L. William Countryman, and others, Helminiak examines the story of Sodom (where the sin was inhospitality), Jude's decrying sex with angels, and five texts-Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13, Romans 1:27, I Corinthians 6:9, and I Timothy 1:10-all of which, he concludes, "are concerned with something other than homogenital activity itself." Highly recommended for all libraries.

Copyright 1994 Reed Business Information, Inc.

I know...it makes your manly skin crawl to even think about reading this book. And Heaven forbid that you have to use your head space to even see if the arguments are reasonable.

And for those that are hung up on how other people live their lives because of what the bible says, I hope you don't hate me because I *gasp* eat shrimp.

[UNTLifer]

Last I checked, most religions also teach tolerance one's fellow man, regardless of their lifestyle. There is a duty to show them the right way to live, but there's almost always a matter of choice involved.

I don't think anyone is being intolerant on here. As a Christian, homosexuality is considered a sin in the Bible and sinners are to be loved and welcomed, but the church's Christian duty is to point out a person's sin, whether it be adultery, homosexuality, etc..., and to encourage them to turn away from this sin. Every person that darkens the door of a Christian church is a sinner in some form or fashion.

What does the Bible say about homosexuality?

There are those who like to say that the Bible does not condemn homosexuality. Various verses are cited (out of context) and the verses that people use to show that homosexuality is wrong are explained away. The world wants to change God's words and meanings into something more suitable to its sinful desires. Nevertheless, the truth stands: The Bible condemns homosexuality as a sin. Let's look at what it says.

Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"

1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."

Homosexuality is clearly condemned by the Bible. It goes against the created order of God. He created Adam and then made a woman. This is what God has ordained and it is what is right. Unlike other sins, homosexuality has a severe judgment administered by God Himself. This judgment is simple: They are given over to their passions. That means that their hearts are allowed to be hardened by their sins (Romans 1:18ff). As a result, they can no longer see the error of what they are doing. Without an awareness of their sinfulness, there will be no repentance and trusting in Jesus. Without Jesus, they will have no forgiveness. Without forgiveness, there is no salvation.

What should be the Christian's Response to the Homosexual?

Just because someone is a homosexual does not mean that we cannot love him (or her) or pray for him (her). Homosexuality is a sin and like any other sin, it needs to be dealt with in the only way possible. It needs to be laid at the cross, repented of, and never done again.

As a Christian, you should pray for the salvation of the homosexual the same you would any other person in sin. The homosexual is still made in the image of God -- even though he is in grave sin. Therefore, you should show him same dignity as anyone else you come in contact with. However, this does not mean that you are to approve of their sin. Don't compromise your witness for a socially acceptable opinion that is void of godliness.

Consider these facts:

100% of the verses addressing homosexual behavior denounce it as sin in the strongest possible terms.

100% of the verses referencing God’s ideal for marriage involve one man and one woman.

100% of the verses referencing parenting involve moms and dads with unique roles (or at least a set of male and female parents guiding the children).

0% of 31,173 Bible verses refer to homosexual behavior in a positive or even benign way or even hint at the acceptability of homosexual unions.

Good Link regarding Leviticus, shellfish, unclean animals, etc...

Regarding Liking Shrimp/Shellfish

Edited November 13, 2008 by UNTLifer

[Coffee and TV]

Gay is a choice race is not,

So at what age did you decide that you'd rather grab little Susie's ass instead of little Johnny's?

[Censored by Laurie]

So at what age did you decide that you'd rather grab little Susie's ass instead of little Johnny's?

For many on here...my guess would be the awkward age of 32.

[forevereagle]

So at what age did you decide that you'd rather grab little Susie's ass instead of little Johnny's?

What evidence do we have to suggest that it is naturally occuring? The design of the human body? It doesn't seem to suggest that this is a natural act. Sex, in its most basic function, is to procreate. How is this accomplished between two men or two women? Have we been able to isolate a gay gene? We all make choices. Is it so hard to believe that this is one of them? People make decisions that are against their natural instincts all the time. Self preservation is natural. If people didn't choose to go against that natural instinct, there would be no soldiers fighting wars, no police or firefighters, and no suicide.

[FirefightnRick]

Speaking of intolerance?

Gay anarchist 'action' hits church

According to one blogger from Right Michigan,, during the mayhem inside the church, two women rushed the pulpit and started kissing to make their point.

Prop. 8 protesters target Mormon temple in Westwood

Theater Director Resigns Amid Gay-Rights Ire

Also, an interesting outcome concerning Pop 8 and the successful candidacy of Barrack Obama.

I wasn't aware that BHO spoke out against same sex marriage as suggested at the end of this article.

Rick

[Coffee and TV]

What evidence do we have to suggest that it is naturally occuring?Have we been able to isolate a gay gene?

There have been many studies that link a horomone in the mother's womb to homosexuality. If a fetus receives too much of this horomone, they are more likely to be homosexual.

[Green Guy Bass]

There have been many studies that link a horomone in the mother's womb to homosexuality. If a fetus receives too much of this horomone, they are more likely to be homosexual.

I have read this too in a number of places. I find it odd how so many can't accept that this might be a genetic/hormonal thing. Why is is so hard for the majority of christians to accept this? It is a very reasonable and logical answer, but I guess that indoctrinized faith and fear gets in the way. Sad really. We have homosexuals across our great land having their rights suppressed, yet so many of the majority sleep well at night when they willingly stand in the way of the rights of their fellow Americans.

Another case of religion standing in the way of progress, tolerance, and reason. We as humans have a long way to go.

Edited November 14, 2008 by Green Guy Bass

[Green Guy Bass]

Speaking of intolerance?

Gay anarchist 'action' hits church

According to one blogger from Right Michigan,, during the mayhem inside the church, two women rushed the pulpit and started kissing to make their point.

Prop. 8 protesters target Mormon temple in Westwood

Theater Director Resigns Amid Gay-Rights Ire

Also, an interesting outcome concerning Pop 8 and the successful candidacy of Barrack Obama.

I wasn't aware that BHO spoke out against same sex marriage as suggested at the end of this article.

Rick

I guess the blacks should have rolled over and just taken it....right?

[FirefightnRick]

I guess the blacks should have rolled over and just taken it....right?

Well, I don't know? I suppose they should have done what they did, vote their convictions about the sanctity marriage. As far as I can tell in the searches I have done it hasn't been a detriment as only the white churches are being harrassed and attacked.

Rick

[GreenMachine]

For those who knew (or at least had inklings (sp?)) that they were gay from a very young age, it was not a choice. Most issues in this world are not black and white, including this.

Sausage or Pie, pretty black and white to me.

[Censored by Laurie]

Sausage or Pie, pretty black and white to me.

Sausage Pie

[GreenMachine]

Sausage Pie

damn it, now you have me questioning my entire existence.

[greenminer]

Sausage Pie

well done.

[forevereagle]

There have been many studies that link a horomone in the mother's womb to homosexuality. If a fetus receives too much of this horomone, they are more likely to be homosexual.

So is this proof, or a link? Were the results conclusive? If it is a hormonal problem, then could it be considered a disease? Would that make it "curable?"

[BeanCounterGrad'03]

damn it, now you have me questioning my entire existence.

[Guest JohnDenver]

So is this proof, or a link? Were the results conclusive? If it is a hormonal problem, then could it be considered a disease? Would that make it "curable?"

Don't know if you can consider it a disease... though in the past people have pushed for it to be a mental disease.

More likely, if it were the case, it would be like deafness or blindness. Or claw hands.. You still shouldn't be able to discriminate because upon something that happened naturally (i.e. in the womb, by hormones) that causes a person to be the way they are.

[forevereagle]

Don't know if you can consider it a disease... though in the past people have pushed for it to be a mental disease.

Before I get flamed (not that I was flamed above), I want to clarify my statement. I was not saying that it should be considered a disease, I was merely posing a question.

[Censored by Laurie]

Before I get flamed (not that I was flamed above), I want to clarify my statement. I was not saying that it should be considered a disease, I was merely posing a question.

Flamed. Ha.

[Mean Green 93-98]

Don't know if you can consider it a disease... though in the past people have pushed for it to be a mental disease.

Homosexuality was always considered a mental disorder until the APA removed it under political pressure in the early '70's. Interestingly enough, gender-identity disorder (GID), which refers to a child beginning to develop pre-homosexual tendencies, is still classified as a disorder. Somehow, once you're the full-blown drag queen, you then become classified as normal.

[meangreendork]

You still shouldn't be able to discriminate because upon something that happened naturally (i.e. in the womb, by hormones) that causes a person to be the way they are.

Yeah, disease or not, that really doesn't change the situation here. Discrimination is still discrimination and religion has to step aside for it in a diverse society like ours.