We Shouldn't Have Fired Dickey

[shaft]

I don't buy the argument that the Head Coach is responsible for the program's PR. I think that's the Athletic Director is responsible for PR.

Dodge didn't get the stadium vote passed, RV did.

The Head Coach is responsible for the product on the field, and Dodge's product stinks.

[oldguystudent]

I believe, possibly wrongly, that this athletic department fancies itself to be up there with the big boys of the SEC and is therefore falling victim to the fallacy of the 80/20 rule. I don't know if that's any one person's doing. In fact, hearing tales of the no tailgating, no event athletics of the past, I'd say the current administration has done some pretty astounding things. When it comes to retention and long run revenues, however, I think the ball's being a bit fumbled if not outright dropped.

[Green Dozer]

I don't buy the argument that the Head Coach is responsible for the program's PR. I think that's the Athletic Director is responsible for PR.

Dodge didn't get the stadium vote passed, RV did.

The Head Coach is responsible for the product on the field, and Dodge's product stinks.

Shaft,

The kids that come to the games and cheer the loudest, I would say, are the freshman and sophmores. (My opinion from observation). Juniors and Seniors are staying in the parking lot to drink. Dodge has had a lunch gathering with students, or at least he did at the beginning of the season, with students in the union. He has been vocal about the stadium since the start of the school year. He talked about the need for a stadium on his radio show. Many letters from students that I read in The Daily from students in support of stadium almost most always referenced Todd Dodge, and what we have to look forward to with his teams. No, it has not been much so far, and I would be lying if I told you that I am as strong a believer this week as last. At least in the circles I have run in, I heard more about the stadium from Dodge than RV. And his reputation from high school sure helped with the student vote because many of our students know Southlake's history. No other high school coach ever got so much media attention from the DFW media as Dodge did, and there have been some great high school coaches in this area. Initially, we had an increase in donors and MGC members with his hiring. Remember, we were told we were losing them in Dickey's last year. Now, he supposedly has more resources to work with than any other coach in our history, so there must have been an increase in donations. It would have been harder to get the support for the stadium if we had some coach that nobody knew locally except the hard core fans like on this board. And if he had a record similar to Dodge's, it would have been an even bigger challenge. Yes, he should be held responsible for whats on the field, but to give him no credit on the stadium is wrong. Again, we do not know what another coach could have done, it is all speculation. It is obvious he can do nothing right in your eyes, but give him some credit for the stadium. I will say your argument that he should go is a helluva a lot stronger than the argument that he should stay given what has happened so far. I am just not on that side of the fence right now. I still think he deserves a couple of more years, as I do not think all the problems and challenges are all his fault. The way the university has tightened the money belt for far to many years bear some role in the shape this program was in when he got here. It is not like we were 2 years removed from 4 conference championships in the Big 12 or SEC. He has hit what I call "the wall" at UNT just like all past coaches, only faster and a lot harder. I do agree that all coaches, including Deloach, should be held responsible for the product on the field. Shaft, you have been around long enough to remember Simon. He and Dickey had the exact same concerns about them being able to build a viable program. Neither were wrong. I do agree that all coaches, including Deloach, should be held responsible for the product on the field. What happens off of the field is not all their fault, and that does effect the on the field performance.

Edited November 11, 2008 by Green Dozer

[VideoEagle]

I don't buy the argument that the Head Coach is responsible for the program's PR. I think that's the Athletic Director is responsible for PR.

Dodge didn't get the stadium vote passed, RV did.

The Head Coach is responsible for the product on the field, and Dodge's product stinks.

First, let me write if we only have one or two wins at this point next year, a reevaluation is in order. That doesn't mean an automatic firing, but there need to be pretty extreme extenuating circumstances not to fire him if we are still only getting one or two wins at the end of three years. Yes, the head coach is responsible for the product on the field.

But the head coach is vital to a football program's PR, not the AD. When was the last time you saw an athletic director's TV show? No, you see a coaches show. Do athletic directors go on the radio before a game? No, coaches do. If you are a report, the guy from whom you want a quote is the head coach. How many staff members at NT have had Bill Parcels mention the idea of hiring them to the press? One and it wasn't our AD. The AD also doesn't run a summer camp for high school players that draws some of the best players in the state. If you google for news stores about both you get 599 for Todd Dodge and 137 for Rick V.

[untjim1995]

DD's mis-steps were not changing his recruiting practices and coaching staff fast enough. But his biggest gaffe was his relationship with the fans/donors.

But I still think the SMU win should have earned Dickey one more season.

To me, the best parts of DD years at UNT were winning the SBC 4 years in a row , winning a bowl game (this was giant and should have led to so much more over the next few years), and his teams beat Tech, Boise State, Nevada, Cincy, Baylor, and SMU during his tenure. He also gave an offense that allowed Patrick Cobbs and Jamario Thomas to become rushing champions, producing amazing publicity for the program (again, this should have produced even more than it ended up doing). And last, but not least, he got us Mattress Mac's million.

Now, lets look at each of those positives. The SBC back then was so weak that rarely did anyone else have a winning record--hell, even we, as champs in 2001 didn't have a winning record. When we were winning games against those teams in the SBC, the rest of the area, state, and country just thought that we were playing basically a glorified D-iAA schedule. The win over Cincy seemed to grab a lot of attention, though, and the following year when we pounded Baylor at home and won the SBC again easily, we went to NO and lost a tough game to Memphis. There was really no shame in that loss, either, as Memphis was really good. To me, this is where Dickey mailed it in. I think he thought there is no way I am not getting another job at a better school. Unfortunately for him, the rest of the country seemed to say that although he had picked us from the dirt, it was because we played in the SBC. His personality and offense were not going to be sellable to other schools' fans and alumni. At this point, he really got into the woe-is-me BS and the recruiting started to suffer. Of course, he loses Andrew Smith tragically and then loses Byerly via ignorance and he had really nothing left at QB. At this point, the SBC really just passed us by. And while the losses started mounting again, the absolute boring-ass style of offense really began to wear on us. But, when he didn't do ANYTHING to his OC for assaulting a fan in the stands--not in private, somehere, but in front of those who still managed to care, the writing was on the wall to me. I couldn't believe that he got to even make it to the next year after that when he RETAINED the idiot OC. (Only at UNT ) The running game that had given us those great years could no longer work, as most teams followed So. Miss's bowl strategy of 9 men in the box and dared them to run, which led to predictable results. BTW, those third and 10 draw plays were really awesome the first six dozen times we saw them. After that, they got pretty old to watch. Then when he gets fired, we MFer fans get Hutch Black Jersey Night at Fouts. And to top it off, the guy that donates us the million decides that he can't handle it with class, but instead demands that the university name something (anything) after his buddy or else he was gonna take his cash back home. With that, we have the DD Practice Field to memorialize a losing coach. Hayden Fry must be so proud of that.

All that said, this is completely separate from the Dodge hiring, which looked promising at first (and cheap) and now looks just ridiculous (and expensive to correct, i.e. buyout and hiring someone new during the worst recession in 35 years). Only at our beloved UNT!!

Edited November 11, 2008 by untjim1995

[SHOSS]

So how is this any different than what any other coach would be doing? You're implying different NT head coaches not named Dodge would resort to the DD stealth recruiting tactics??? This is where I call B.S. on this type of mentality. Coaches go after the best players possible, period. Dodge is doing nothing different in this department and I would expect any NT head coach to do the same. What recruiting tools does he have left? His record is in the toilet and he's got a few "scandals" already under his belt. What parent in their right mind would want their child to go to such a program in disarray? The stadium is the only recruiting pitch he has left and he better thank the student body every night before he puts his "genius" head on that pillow. I've seen this namethrown around here a few times and it's damn perfect for him: Teflon Todd.

Not implying recruiting would be any different...just repeating what I've read others saying about our recruiting strategies this year by one of the more connected and informed members of this board... just want to see his system in a more mature state. You know... show some patience and see this thing get a true shake.

Has Dodge done everything correctly...obviously not. Do I consider him an offensive genius right now? No. Not right now.

You are sick of the Dodge apologist, fine.... I don't consider myself a Dodge apologist though. I think any new coach coming in should get to see his first recruiting class graduate before we give up on him... I'm personally sick of the fire fire fire fire fire mentality that seems to be showing up more and more.... vomit on that mentality. vomit i tell you... who should we get to replace him on our budget? Wade Phillips wouldn't have to move very far. and if he gets the axe from the cowboys, would he have a severence that would allow us to pay him peanuts/aka salary within our means? how long will you give this coach once he has trouble?

fire fire fire! fire fire! fire fire fire fire! come on... even if this is the worst college football I've ever seen... his pushing for the stadium and assisting with getting the vote passed earns him the minimum amount of time we should give a coach...even if the results on the field don't point to that right now...

love you all

gmg

end of next year, if things don't improve, then fire away with fire talk. I may even stop shaking my head every time I see something along those lines. After his forth year, I will join in. Right now, it is too early. Complain about the results, but please...for the love of everything holy...stop the fire fire fire or we shouldn't have fired the previous regime....

[Got5onIt]

Not implying recruiting would be any different...just repeating what I've read others saying about our recruiting strategies this year by one of the more connected and informed members of this board... just want to see his system in a more mature state. You know... show some patience and see this thing get a true shake.

Has Dodge done everything correctly...obviously not. Do I consider him an offensive genius right now? No. Not right now.

You are sick of the Dodge apologist, fine.... I don't consider myself a Dodge apologist though. I think any new coach coming in should get to see his first recruiting class graduate before we give up on him... I'm personally sick of the fire fire fire fire fire mentality that seems to be showing up more and more.... vomit on that mentality. vomit i tell you... who should we get to replace him on our budget? Wade Phillips wouldn't have to move very far. and if he gets the axe from the cowboys, would he have a severence that would allow us to pay him peanuts/aka salary within our means? how long will you give this coach once he has trouble?

fire fire fire! fire fire! fire fire fire fire! come on... even if this is the worst college football I've ever seen... his pushing for the stadium and assisting with getting the vote passed earns him the minimum amount of time we should give a coach...even if the results on the field don't point to that right now...

love you all

gmg

end of next year, if things don't improve, then fire away with fire talk. I may even stop shaking my head every time I see something along those lines. After his forth year, I will join in. Right now, it is too early. Complain about the results, but please...for the love of everything holy...stop the fire fire fire or we shouldn't have fired the previous regime....

Well, one thing we can agree on is the fact Dodge appears to be here another year. The fire, fire, fire, mentality is a beating after a while, isn't it? It just irritates the hell out of me that the upper levels of NT athletics could screw this up so bad and really not give 2 flips about it. As for the budget thing, there are PLENTY of successful FCS coaches & FBS assistants who make a fraction of what Dodge makes that would be willing to run their very own Texas based FBS program. Don't sell us short, as much as Dodge has driven this thing into the ground, NT still is a legitimate FBS program.

Edited November 12, 2008 by Got5onIt

[TIgreen01]

To me, the best parts of DD years at UNT were winning the SBC 4 years in a row , winning a bowl game (this was giant and should have led to so much more over the next few years), and his teams beat Tech, Boise State, Nevada, Cincy, Baylor, and SMU during his tenure. He also gave an offense that allowed Patrick Cobbs and Jamario Thomas to become rushing champions, producing amazing publicity for the program (again, this should have produced even more than it ended up doing). And last, but not least, he got us Mattress Mac's million.

Now, lets look at each of those positives. The SBC back then was so weak that rarely did anyone else have a winning record--hell, even we, as champs in 2001 didn't have a winning record. When we were winning games against those teams in the SBC, the rest of the area, state, and country just thought that we were playing basically a glorified D-iAA schedule. The win over Cincy seemed to grab a lot of attention, though, and the following year when we pounded Baylor at home and won the SBC again easily, we went to NO and lost a tough game to Memphis. There was really no shame in that loss, either, as Memphis was really good. To me, this is where Dickey mailed it in. I think he thought there is no way I am not getting another job at a better school. Unfortunately for him, the rest of the country seemed to say that although he had picked us from the dirt, it was because we played in the SBC. His personality and offense were not going to be sellable to other schools' fans and alumni. At this point, he really got into the woe-is-me BS and the recruiting started to suffer. Of course, he loses Andrew Smith tragically and then loses Byerly via ignorance and he had really nothing left at QB. At this point, the SBC really just passed us by. And while the losses started mounting again, the absolute boring-ass style of offense really began to wear on us. But, when he didn't do ANYTHING to his OC for assaulting a fan in the stands--not in private, somehere, but in front of those who still managed to care, the writing was on the wall to me. I couldn't believe that he got to even make it to the next year after that when he RETAINED the idiot OC. (Only at UNT ) The running game that had given us those great years could no longer work, as most teams followed So. Miss's bowl strategy of 9 men in the box and dared them to run, which led to predictable results. BTW, those third and 10 draw plays were really awesome the first six dozen times we saw them. After that, they got pretty old to watch. Then when he gets fired, we MFer fans get Hutch Black Jersey Night at Fouts. And to top it off, the guy that donates us the million decides that he can't handle it with class, but instead demands that the university name something (anything) after his buddy or else he was gonna take his cash back home. With that, we have the DD Practice Field to memorialize a losing coach. Hayden Fry must be so proud of that.

All that said, this is completely separate from the Dodge hiring, which looked promising at first (and cheap) and now looks just ridiculous (and expensive to correct, i.e. buyout and hiring someone new during the worst recession in 35 years). Only at our beloved UNT!!

Outstanding post....I agree with every single word.

[Quoner]

Now, lets look at each of those positives. The SBC back then was so weak that rarely did anyone else have a winning record--hell, even we, as champs in 2001 didn't have a winning record. When we were winning games against those teams in the SBC, the rest of the area, state, and country just thought that we were playing basically a glorified D-iAA schedule. The win over Cincy seemed to grab a lot of attention, though, and the following year when we pounded Baylor at home and won the SBC again easily, we went to NO and lost a tough game to Memphis. There was really no shame in that loss, either, as Memphis was really good. To me, this is where Dickey mailed it in. I think he thought there is no way I am not getting another job at a better school. Unfortunately for him, the rest of the country seemed to say that although he had picked us from the dirt, it was because we played in the SBC. His personality and offense were not going to be sellable to other schools' fans and alumni. At this point, he really got into the woe-is-me BS and the recruiting started to suffer. Of course, he loses Andrew Smith tragically and then loses Byerly via ignorance and he had really nothing left at QB. At this point, the SBC really just passed us by.

http://tysports.blogspot.com/2008/10/build...r-sun-belt.html

Just to start this argument again and throw out some counterbalance to the discussion.

If anything, start at the final gem of a comment:

You have to look at all the facts. Like who those wins were over. You also judge a conference and its teams by their attendance. Finally, you look at bowl tie ins. The Belt is much stronger now. Statistics can be used to twist anything... just ask Biden, Palin, Obama, and that Maverick known as "Mac"

Attendance makes the quality of football better.

The number of bowl games has gone from 25 in 2001 to 34 this year.

Also, politics rule!

[greenminer]

Also, politics rule!

Buurrrrnn BAAAAAN him!!!

[Censored by Laurie]

This thread is itching for a spin-off

[greenminer]

Buurrrrnn BAAAAAN him!!!

This thread is itching for a spin-off

[shaft]

The fire, fire, fire mindset is what brought us Dodge.

Despite DD's mis-steps he still did what we asked of him, win games. And most notably he beat SMU that last season.

Dozer seems to be hung up on how popular Dodge is. I'm saying that ship has sailed.

To me the big difference between Dodge and Dickey is magic bullets.

Dickey ran a simple system that worked. Fans got tired of it and cried out for the flash (and fizzle) that is Todd Dodge.

With no experience as a college football coach, we expect Dodge to be some magic recruiter.

So where are Mr. Popularity's great recruits? How many of his wide receivers are starting? Wasn't Riley save us?

[ADLER]

Build a bridge out of him!

yp_l5ntikaU

[Eagle1855]

The fire, fire, fire mindset is what brought us Dodge.

Despite DD's mis-steps he still did what we asked of him, win games. And most notably he beat SMU that last season.

Once again, DD was not fired solely because we had stopped winning. The fact that he won was actually the only thing that kept him from being fired sooner.

And if I could trade 'beating SMU' for 'a winning season' for the REST OF ETERNITY, I would do so, without even having to think about it. Why everyone seems to think beating one of the sh!tt!est D-1A teams in the nation matters is beyond me.

Edited November 12, 2008 by Eagle1855

[Mean Green 93-98]

The fire, fire, fire mindset is what brought us Dodge.

So do you or don't you want to fire, fire, fire Dodge?

Despite DD's mis-steps he still did what we asked of him, win games. And most notably he beat SMU that last season.

He won games for a period, and during that period he did, he wasn't going to get fired. His last 2 years he did not win, and there were no signs that he was going to turn things around. The SMU was a great win, but it was an aberration. Woody Wilson carried the team on his shoulders for that win. Even then, it was a bad SMU team. Matt Simon beat Tech his last year, but that didn't save his job. Which was the bigger win?

Dickey ran a simple system that worked. Fans got tired of it and cried out for the flash (and fizzle) that is Todd Dodge.

A system that worked?! His last year, our offense was ranked 116th in the nation, scoring 12.8 points/game and a total of 232 yards/game. Admittedly, his system prevented blowouts from being quite so major blowouts, but I don't think I could say that in itself constitutes a system that "worked."

With no experience as a college football coach, we expect Dodge to be some magic recruiter.

So where are Mr. Popularity's great recruits? How many of his wide receivers are starting? Wasn't Riley save us?

How many of Mr. Popularity's great recruits are upperclassmen? Yes, the ones that are gone are busts. But you can't call a recruit a bust until he's had an opportunity to develop. Give Royce Hill a couple of years. Have you not seen Lance Dunbar? Cam Montgomery? He has brought in some good recruits.

I know that Dodge has underperformed. I'm not a Dodge apologist per se, although I am okay with giving him another year. I'm just opposed to posts that make no sense.

[Green Dozer]

The fire, fire, fire mindset is what brought us Dodge.

Despite DD's mis-steps he still did what we asked of him, win games. And most notably he beat SMU that last season.

Dozer seems to be hung up on how popular Dodge is. I'm saying that ship has sailed.

To me the big difference between Dodge and Dickey is magic bullets.

Dickey ran a simple system that worked. Fans got tired of it and cried out for the flash (and fizzle) that is Todd Dodge.

With no experience as a college football coach, we expect Dodge to be some magic recruiter.

So where are Mr. Popularity's great recruits? How many of his wide receivers are starting? Wasn't Riley save us?

Shaft,

Not hung up, that popularity is wearing off and I know that. My point is he brought us a lot of bang for our buck when he was hired. His hiring helped us get down the road toward getting the stadium fee passed a little faster, that is what I am trying to say. I know you adamantly disagree with that, so I won't go any further.

I thought his recruiting would be a little stronger, but we have only seen one class from a full year of recruiting. I am trying to withhold judgment on that part until February, when we will see the results from a second full year of recruiting. You keep alluding to no experience as a recruiter. Well, as a pretty sought after athlete in high school, he did go through the recruiting process himself. He also saw how the recruiting program was handled while at Texas. He has been involved as a coach having his players recruited, and also involved in the recruiting process as a parent. Furthermore, he was an assistant here at North Texas and though I know none personally, I understand that many of those players who played here then have spoken very highly of him as a coach. Mitch Mahr, the quarterback, for one. We have also benefited from him holding camps here on our campus the past two summers, and it is my understanding that some of the best skill players in the state attended them. And again, there is absolutely no way another coach could have done better unless he had the name recognition that Dodge did within our recruiting area. We do not exactly recruit real heavy outside our own state. So, a few players did not pan out, and neither did all of Dickey's nor do all of Stoop's pan out. If it were easy, everybody would have a top notch program. As for Riley, he had a shoulder injury last year, and I am sure that had to have some effect on his arm. Many say that it takes a lot longer to gain strength back from a shoulder injury than any other part of the body. I, for one, think it would have been a mistake to play Riley at qb this year for a lot of reasons. Again, it would not have made any difference who behind this line, even if we had a healthy Tom Brady.

Again, Shaft, Dodge has brought some credibility to this program. Even the New York Times wrote a positive article the way he handled the drug issue. We are not the laughing stock of the DFW media, and we sure have never been on the national stage even when we won the four conference championships. Again, why is it all Dickey, Dodge's, Simon's, and all the other coaches fault that the star recruits do not come here? Simon pointed out that with the facilities he had, it was very hard to sell the program. A university this size, that has been playing ball as long as we have, located in the State of Texas and we have one player whose name most people can recognize. He last played here nearly forty years ago, and I would venture not many recruits really know who he is, and soon the parents of the recruits won't either unless they happen to be football historians as a many on this board are. Yes, we have had a few others in the pros, but unless you are a hardcore fan, you could not name them. I think we as alumnae, and the alumnae over the years who have done NOTHING to support this program need to bear a lot of the responsibility where this program is today. Yea, Dodge has more resources than his predecessors, but the cost of doing business in every endeavor has skyrocketed to. Maybe donations are up, but so are costs. All of these factors have lead to the problems that Dodge is facing here, and any other coach might have won a few more games, but he would still face the problems and challenges of building a strong, significantly competitive program.

Edited November 12, 2008 by Green Dozer

[ADLER]

Once again, DD was not fired solely because we had stopped winning. The fact that he won was actually the only thing that kept him from being fired sooner.

True, his antics finally caught up with him.

yngq9NmOnFw

[Eagle1855]

You make some good points Dozer. I agree with most of the opinions you expressed except the bit about our lack of success being the alumni's cross to bear. Why would people dump money into an area in which the school hasnt shown - at least not until recently- they are committed to excellence?

The school has to make the decision then bring everyone else on board. It doesnt work the other way around.

Edited November 12, 2008 by Eagle1855

[greenminer]

The school has to make the decision then bring everyone else on board. It doesnt work the other way around.

Why can't this swing both ways?

[Eagle1855]

Why can't this swing both ways?

Because we arent a decision-making entity, we don't have the ability to direct the program. We are a bunch of people that want to support our athletics programs. Our job is not to run them. Leadership comes from the top down. A clear vision is set, then all involved parties can come together (giggity) and make it happen.

Edited November 12, 2008 by Eagle1855

[Green Dozer]

This nifty device little device included on all keyboards allows you to organize thoughts into a way that makes it less confusing and arduous for the reader to understand what you are trying to say. JSYK!

That being said, you make some good points Dozer. I agree with most of the opinions you expressed except the bit about our lack of success being the alumni's cross to bear. Why would people dump money into an area in which the school hasnt shown - at least not until recently- they are committed to excellence?

The school has to make the decision then bring everyone else on board. It doesnt work the other way around.

1855,

I went back, and unscrambled it as best I could. Thanks for the pointers

We have had two presidents in a row (Pohl and Bataille) who have been on the athletic band wagon since they arrived. We suffered miserably as an athletic program under Hurley. But, the invitation to participate has been there for a long time. No, it has not been gold embossed invitations, we both know. But RV has beat the drum, donors are invited to the athletic director's box, we have tailgating, etc. No, it is not like the Longhorn Foundation, or the 12th man, but it is better today than it has been since Hayden Fry was athletic director. Ask FFR about the telethon he participated in, and what the results are.

This athletic donor base, being apathetic, is nothing new to you all I know. 4 conference championships, a coaching change, new athletic village, a stadium on the way with an increase in the athletic fee and all. And it really has not changed the attitude of the alumnae stepping up to the plate. Yet, many will stand in the parking lot with a beer, and in between ribs, b*&tch why we cannot keep up with the OU and TX. Yet, their opinion is all they give, and I know some can afford to give some $$$. RV has brought this entire program up with little resources, and you can see the improvements. We are talking in the past 7 years or so. Not mere months. You say the university has not shown commitment until recently, then what is the time frame for the alumnae to show their commitment? How big of letters does the invitation need on it?

Edited November 12, 2008 by Green Dozer

[Green Dozer]

You make some good points Dozer. I agree with most of the opinions you expressed except the bit about our lack of success being the alumni's cross to bear. Why would people dump money into an area in which the school hasnt shown - at least not until recently- they are committed to excellence?

The school has to make the decision then bring everyone else on board. It doesnt work the other way around.

1855,

Just one more thing. When the other programs were being developed, they were unproven as well. But the alumnae and adm at those schools pulled together. This university had a real good chance to turn the corner with this program with Fry. He did the best he could why he was here, and left because there was no real commitment from either the university nor the alumni. When he left, they did not go out and get the next Hayden Fry as Silver pointed out in another post. The alumni must not have cared, because they did not exactly rise up and tell the administration that decision and a few others they made would not stand. Yes, the university leads, but the alumni have got to make their voice known, and be loud about it.

[Eagle1855]

1855,

I went back, and unscrambled it as best I could. Thanks for the pointers

We have had two presidents in a row (Pohl and Bataille) who have been on the athletic band wagon since they arrived. We suffered miserably as an athletic program under Hurley. But, the invitation to participate has been there for a long time. No, it has not been gold embossed invitations, we both know. But RV has beat the drum, donors are invited to the athletic director's box, we have tailgating, etc. No, it is not like the Longhorn Foundation, or the 12th man, but it is better today than it has been since Hayden Fry was athletic director. Ask FFR about the telethon he participated in, and what the results are.

This athletic donor base, being apathetic, is nothing new to you all I know. 4 conference championships, a coaching change, new athletic village, a stadium on the way with an increase in the athletic fee and all. And it really has not changed the attitude of the alumnae stepping up to the plate. Yet, many will stand in the parking lot with a beer, and in between ribs, b*&tch why we cannot keep up with the OU and TX. Yet, their opinion is all they give, and I know some can afford to give some $$$. RV has brought this entire program up with little resources, and you can see the improvements. We are talking in the past 7 years or so. Not mere months. You say the university has not shown commitment until recently, then what is the time frame for the alumnae to show their commitment? How big of letters does the invitation need on it?

It was confusing, but I was just being a jackass about it. Just jokes...

What Im saying is that starting to work on an athletics program in the last decade puts us WAY behind the ball. Deciding to work on a Division one program in the last 7 years is actually NO TIME AT ALL compared with how long we've been fielding teams.

What Im saying is that the culture is already changing (look at attendance figures compared to our record) and that we should see improvement in the future. Students actually wear green on campus now. That didnt always happen when I was there. Even though we are still filtering out all the old crap, we actually have a cohesive brand. That didnt exist when I was there...just 5 years ago.

Just give it some time. If we stay committed to athletics - which I believe GB will do- we'll see the money come in. Todd Dodge's inability to win won't damn this program. UH is less than a decade removed from an 0-fer season and they are coming along nicely.

[Green Dozer]

It was confusing, but I was just being a jackass about it. Just jokes...

What Im saying is that starting to work on an athletics program in the last decade puts us WAY behind the ball. Deciding to work on a Division one program in the last 7 years is actually NO TIME AT ALL compared with how long we've been fielding teams.

What Im saying is that the culture is already changing (look at attendance figures compared to our record) and that we should see improvement in the future. Students actually wear green on campus now. That didnt always happen when I was there. Even though we are still filtering out all the old crap, we actually have a cohesive brand. That didnt exist when I was there...just 5 years ago.

Just give it some time. If we stay committed to athletics - which I believe GB will do- we'll see the money come in. Todd Dodge's inability to win won't damn this program. UH is less than a decade removed from an 0-fer season and they are coming along nicely.

I liked your joke, no harm . All great points, I agree with you. Thanks!