We Shouldn't Have Fired Dickey

shaft · November 10, 2008

DD's mis-steps were not changing his recruiting practices and coaching staff fast enough. But his biggest gaffe was his relationship with the fans/donors.

But I still think the SMU win should have earned Dickey one more season.

UNT_playmaker · November 10, 2008

Dickey would have won the SMU game of last season. He had a Dickey win written all over it....

An SMU win is the most important win of the season.

Green Mean · November 10, 2008

But I still think the SMU win should have earned Dickey one more season.

Why the SMU win? It was a battle of two crap teams and you think that win should have given Dickey one more year? I agree with you that the Dodge hiring is a true disaster but it baffles me to read that you think the SMU win should have given Dickey another year :blink:

UNT_playmaker · November 10, 2008

Its because it was a rival game and also the much hyped game of the year, the crowd atmosphere was similiar to that of the NMSU game at Fouts for the Conference Championship.

Dickey should have been given one more year, no more no less. Dickey found a better and bigger donor than the AD. Now when is it the coach's job to bring in donors, its the AD's job.

GrandGreen · November 10, 2008

GrandGreen say:
"One of the reasons we are in this current mess is that DD was not fired earlier. DD was a much better on field coach than the current TD, but at least TD has an opportunity to improve. DD was on a down spiral that could never have been corrected. "
Shaft says:
I'm confused, Grand Green says we should we have fired Dickey sooner. When should we have done that, after his third or fourth conference championship? Dickey was fired a season and a half after our last New Orleans Bowl. Dodge has none nothing but make the team worst team in D1 in his two seasons at the helm.
My question is for everyone who thought Dickey should go, when should RV dismiss Dodge?

When he refused to stop his public negativity, it shouldn't take a genius to infer that it would be very hard to recruit to a program that the head coach continued to complain about. No, it would not matter to me what his record was when he stated he had the most difficult job in the nation; if it was up to me, he wouldn't have to worry about it anymore. DD lived on one unexplainable excellent recruiting class and I think most coaches, maybe with our current coach as an exception, would have prospered with the talent gap that existed between NT and the rest of the Belt at that time. DD didn't build on that class but instead apparently concentrated on getting a new job and continued his snide comments about his employer and fans.

I have already stated that if TD does not show significant improvement through next year, changes should be made.

calvin · November 11, 2008

I think the biggest things that hurt Dickey were 1.) the fans lost major interest, and I think it was mostly b/c of the offense and lack of a passing game. and then 2.) I think he tried to rely too much on finding the diamond in the rough type players in recruiting. He built the program off of guys like Kassel, Booger, Hall, Cobbs and guys like that and at the end I think he was trying too hard to get guys like that, (Brandon Monroe, Kail Krider, Tye Rexrode and those guys.) When those guys didnt work out, it really showed. But if you remember and look back, we lost a ton of close games those last 2 years. I wonder what would have happened if we would have went 5-6 in those last 2 years b/c we could have. But it does know good to look back now.

I just hope we arent like NMSU. They were decent when they had Samuel and when they switched to a spread team and changed their uniforms they have been TERRIBLE. Most of their wins have come against D-1AA. I think they are in year 4 of the change and they are still terrible.

oldguystudent · November 11, 2008

I just hope we arent like NMSU. They were decent when they had Samuel and when they switched to a spread team and changed their uniforms they have been TERRIBLE. Most of their wins have come against D-1AA. I think they are in year 4 of the change and they are still terrible.

I'm really beginning to think that Mizzou and Tech are anomalies. I don't know of any other team that so stubbornly refuses to mix up their offense and has success. If the spread were that great, we'd see it in the NFL. We do see it occasionally at that level, but never as a sole means to offense.

I don't know what to say about the defense except, "Hey! Pssst!!! Over here!! Football goes in two directions!! You have a defense to look after too!"

ETA -- I wasn't here for it, but from what I read, and what I hear, Dickey was a cancer to the program.

Edited November 11, 2008 by oldguystudent

CaribbeanGreen · November 11, 2008

Not going to debate firing DD, hiring TD, etc., but I will say that 90%+ of the difference in fan support/game day had nothing to do with the coach and everything to do with tailgating/new game day experience. I WISH we'd had that during Dickey's championship run... hell, during Simon's run.

That's been the single biggest improvement in the program. THAT is what spiked fan involvement.

Green Dozer · November 11, 2008

Not going to debate firing DD, hiring TD, etc., but I will say that 90%+ of the difference in fan support/game day had nothing to do with the coach and everything to do with tailgating/new game day experience. I WISH we'd had that during Dickey's championship run... hell, during Simon's run.
That's been the single biggest improvement in the program. THAT is what spiked fan involvement.

Now if we can just get more of the fans involved in tailgating into the stadium, then we would have even more vocal support for the team.

Pen Yan Fan · November 11, 2008

Let's all hope that if/when Dodge is out, RV is no longer the one doing the hiring. Dodge was the best of a really lousy list of finalists he put together two years ago.

MeanMag · November 11, 2008

I'm really beginning to think that Mizzou and Tech are anomalies. I don't know of any other team that so stubbornly refuses to mix up their offense and has success. If the spread were that great, we'd see it in the NFL. We do see it occasionally at that level, but never as a sole means to offense.
I don't know what to say about the defense except, "Hey! Pssst!!! Over here!! Football goes in two directions!! You have a defense to look after too!"
ETA -- I wasn't here for it, but from what I read, and what I hear, Dickey was a cancer to the program.

That Cancer took me to New Orleans 3 times during my years at NT... and I loved every single one of them. Didn't make it for the first one... unfortunately.

CaribbeanGreen · November 11, 2008

I'm really beginning to think that Mizzou and Tech are anomalies. I don't know of any other team that so stubbornly refuses to mix up their offense and has success. If the spread were that great, we'd see it in the NFL. We do see it occasionally at that level, but never as a sole means to offense.
I don't know what to say about the defense except, "Hey! Pssst!!! Over here!! Football goes in two directions!! You have a defense to look after too!"
ETA -- I wasn't here for it, but from what I read, and what I hear, Dickey was a cancer to the program.

If you look at Mizzou and Tech, you'll see a lot of differences... snaps under center, true hurry-ups (no staring at the sideline in unison), a LOT more deep shots than we take (Tech especially), and heavy TE use/heavy sets (Mizzou)... ours, thus far, seems so much more plodding, simplistic, and locked into "system"... but I have hope, given that we have seen a TE wandering around here lately..

Green Dozer · November 11, 2008

NFL did try the spread. It was the called the fun n gun, run n shoot, etc. A few offenses in the NFL mix in some of the spread. Phoenix did it tonight a couple of times in a hurry up offense. I think there is to much speed in NFL defenses for it to work on a consistent basis.

foutsrouts · November 11, 2008

If you look at Mizzou and Tech, you'll see a lot of differences... snaps under center, true hurry-ups (no staring at the sideline in unison), a LOT more deep shots than we take (Tech especially), and heavy TE use/heavy sets (Mizzou)... ours, thus far, seems so much more plodding, simplistic, and locked into "system"... but I have hope, given that we have seen a TE wandering around here lately..

Good post. We run a high school spread while they run a college spread. For one thing, stop spending half the team's time looking over at big daddy for instructions. Too distracting. Will he wake up is the question.

shaft · November 11, 2008

I don't think you can blame the spread. Lots of teams use it, and we still have the ball the same amount of time we did under Dickey's Run & No Fun offense.

We made a mistake as fans. I'm sorry the people who had their feelings hurt my Dickey, who called for his firing, who clammared for Dodge, are now the ones forced to defend Dodge.

I think the time has come to end the high school experiment. Dodge's firing is inevitable. The question is do we do it at the end of the season or wait ten more months until Dodge has secured another losing season.

Mean Green 93-98 · November 11, 2008

I don't think you can blame the spread. Lots of teams use it, and we still have the ball the same amount of time we did under Dickey's Run & No Fun offense.
We made a mistake as fans. I'm sorry the people who had their feelings hurt my Dickey, who called for his firing, who clammared for Dodge, are now the ones forced to defend Dodge.
I think the time has come to end the high school experiment. Dodge's firing is inevitable. The question is do we do it at the end of the season or wait ten more months until Dodge has secured another losing season.

Again, Dodge's underperformance does not make Dickey a good coach. There was no mistake made in firing Dickey--I was ready for Dickey to go before he finished his 2nd year. I am thankful that he was finally able to turn things around for a little while, and appreciate what he gave us. But if Dodge leaves after next year, I guarantee that you will be the only one asking for Dickey.

VideoEagle · November 11, 2008

We made a mistake as fans. I'm sorry the people who had their feelings hurt my Dickey, who called for his firing, who clammared for Dodge, are now the ones forced to defend Dodge.

First and foremost, many is not most of those currently calling for the firing of Dodge were demanding Dickey's firing in much, much more strenuous terms.

DD was not the worst coach in the history of NT. I personally think that was Bob Tyler, although when fans were clamoring for HIS firing, a couple of his players who were RTF majors told me he was "as good as Hayden."

But, DD had to go as total attendance was down, season ticket sales were down, Mean Green Club donations were down and total donations to athletics were down even counting Mattress Mac. I, personally, would have waited till the end of the season to fire him, but there is no question about the actual firing. Right now, total attendance is at an all time high, season ticket sales are at an all time high, Mean Green Club donations are at an all time high and athletic donation appear to be doing well.

Yes, there will be a decline next year, but it doesn't appear any of those key factors will drop to the DD level. Remember, we had over 18000 people get their tickets scanned to watch a winless Dodge team, more than showed up for many of DD's wining teams.

SHOSS · November 11, 2008

Not going to debate firing DD, hiring TD, etc., but I will say that 90%+ of the difference in fan support/game day had nothing to do with the coach and everything to do with tailgating/new game day experience. I WISH we'd had that during Dickey's championship run... hell, during Simon's run.
That's been the single biggest improvement in the program. THAT is what spiked fan involvement.

I didn't contribute during the Dickey era...so I'm not sure I'm qualified to speak to not firing the guy(but I will anyway cause this is a forum n stuff)... The alumni I've spoken with on this all said that Dickey produced basically no connection with the fans(both alumni and students)... He brought us 4 titles and 1 bowl victory. That is great. This kind of success should have generated momentum, but for some reason, it doesn't appear to be the case...

With Dodge's arrival, the buzz around the program was fun, and optimism was plentiful(UNT proportions of course). Yeah, the results have been terrible... Worse than I could have imagined. The good thing is that some people are actually mad about it instead of apathatic... I know on this board, there is nothing but anger because...lets face it, this board probably makes up most of the active support for this program. and you guys all really do give an 's'.

With the promise of new facitilites and the yes vote, this is positive momentum. I no longer feel that this board is the only set of supporters the program has. Lets stay positive... Lets give Dodge one more year before calling for his head... I truley believe he should have until his first class of recruits graduates at a minimum(fall 2010)...

Once that new stadium is in place, the coaching staff(whomever that will be) will have a recruiting advantage that no other coaching staff has ever had at UNT. Dodge is part of the reason for this getting built. These firing/shouldn't have fired Dickey threads, to me anyway, aren't really acknowledging this credit that I believe Dodge and Villareal deserve TOGETHER. I truley believe that Dodge should get to coach in this new stadium(that would be fall 2011 unless there are some delays...please god, no) I bet he would be successful. Right now we just have to stay patient. Dickey was successful for a period of time, but Dodge appears to have generated more ACTUAL INTEREST...(ok, here is my point...ready...)which in the long run is more important than the 4 straight titles... Yes, at this stage in our program, INTERST AND BUILDING COMPETITIVE FACILITIES IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN SUCCESS ON THE FIELD.

Now, success on the field will help generate MORE INTEREST...but right now, even if Dodge is just a freakin politician and doesn't post a winning season before then, lobbying for even more interst and contributions from the alumni, that, more than anything else, will ensure long term success... This next recruiting class would start playing in the new stadium as Juniors/redshirt-sophomores... The stadium will finally be in the recruiting pitch for Dodge... The next year, Sophmores/redshirt-freshmen... the next year(gasp), true freshmen... See what I mean? Our pitch becomes more and more attractive to young men coming out of high school. Better student athletes equals better team. It is coming.

I've seen threads posted about the offers we have out, and the level of players we are going after... Imagine, if you will, winning these battles even half of the time. Dodge needs time. Dodge is a major reason this is possible....lets let him go through this recruiting progression. I can't wait! In the mean time, we are going to suck it up as a fanbase and ride this out... We can all work on getting our tailgating scene up to tops in the state... Bar-b-que and Beer is a great thing to practice for when we are ready to compete as a bonafide football program in div 1 college football.

Got5onIt · November 11, 2008

I didn't contribute during the Dickey era...so I'm not sure I'm qualified to speak to not firing the guy(but I will anyway cause this is a forum n stuff)... The alumni I've spoken with on this all said that Dickey produced basically no connection with the fans(both alumni and students)... He brought us 4 titles and 1 bowl victory. That is great. This kind of success should have generated momentum, but for some reason, it doesn't appear to be the case...
With Dodge's arrival, the buzz around the program was fun, and optimism was plentiful(UNT proportions of course). Yeah, the results have been terrible... Worse than I could have imagined. The good thing is that some people are actually mad about it instead of apathatic... I know on this board, there is nothing but anger because...lets face it, this board probably makes up most of the active support for this program. and you guys all really do give an 's'.
With the promise of new facitilites and the yes vote, this is positive momentum. I no longer feel that this board is the only set of supporters the program has. Lets stay positive... Lets give Dodge one more year before calling for his head... I truley believe he should have until his first class of recruits graduates at a minimum(fall 2010)...
Once that new stadium is in place, the coaching staff(whomever that will be) will have a recruiting advantage that no other coaching staff has ever had at UNT. Dodge is part of the reason for this getting built. These firing/shouldn't have fired Dickey threads, to me anyway, aren't really acknowledging this credit that I believe Dodge and Villareal deserve TOGETHER. I truley believe that Dodge should get to coach in this new stadium(that would be fall 2011 unless there are some delays...please god, no) I bet he would be successful. Right now we just have to stay patient. Dickey was successful for a period of time, but Dodge appears to have generated more ACTUAL INTEREST...(ok, here is my point...ready...)which in the long run is more important than the 4 straight titles... Yes, at this stage in our program, INTERST AND BUILDING COMPETITIVE FACILITIES IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN SUCCESS ON THE FIELD.
Now, success on the field will help generate MORE INTEREST...but right now, even if Dodge is just a freakin politician and doesn't post a winning season before then, lobbying for even more interst and contributions from the alumni, that, more than anything else, will ensure long term success... This next recruiting class would start playing in the new stadium as Juniors/redshirt-sophomores... The stadium will finally be in the recruiting pitch for Dodge... The next year, Sophmores/redshirt-freshmen... the next year(gasp), true freshmen... See what I mean? Our pitch becomes more and more attractive to young men coming out of high school. Better student athletes equals better team. It is coming.
I've seen threads posted about the offers we have out, and the level of players we are going after... Imagine, if you will, winning these battles even half of the time. Dodge needs time. Dodge is a major reason this is possible....lets let him go through this recruiting progression. I can't wait! In the mean time, we are going to suck it up as a fanbase and ride this out... We can all work on getting our tailgating scene up to tops in the state... Bar-b-que and Beer is a great thing to practice for when we are ready to compete as a bonafide football program in div 1 college football.

So how is this any different than what any other coach would be doing? You're implying different NT head coaches not named Dodge would resort to the DD stealth recruiting tactics??? This is where I call B.S. on this type of mentality. Coaches go after the best players possible, period. Dodge is doing nothing different in this department and I would expect any NT head coach to do the same. What recruiting tools does he have left? His record is in the toilet and he's got a few "scandals" already under his belt. What parent in their right mind would want their child to go to such a program in disarray? The stadium is the only recruiting pitch he has left and he better thank the student body every night before he puts his "genius" head on that pillow. I've seen this namethrown around here a few times and it's damn perfect for him: Teflon Todd.

Green Dozer · November 11, 2008

So how is this any different than what any other coach would be doing? You're implying different NT head coaches not named Dodge would resort to the DD stealth recruiting tactics??? This is where I call B.S. on this type of mentality. Coaches go after the best players possible, period. Dodge is doing nothing different in this department and I would expect any NT head coach to do the same. What recruiting tools does he have left? His record is in the toilet and he's got a few "scandals" already under his belt. What parent in their right mind would want their child to go to such a program in disarray? The stadium is the only recruiting pitch he has left and he better thank the student body every night before he puts his "genius" head on that pillow. I've seen this namethrown around here a few times and it's damn perfect for him: Teflon Todd.

Don't know about the stadium................that issue on the part of the administration has sure gone quiet since the vote.

GreenMachine · November 11, 2008

lets face it, this board probably makes up most of the active support for this program.

I've got to disagree with this. If you look at the number of regular posters, it makes up a very small portion of total fans. I know many, many, fans that give financially, tailgate, attend all home games, and have never heard of this site.

jimmyjames_99 · November 11, 2008

Don't know about the stadium................that issue on the part of the administration has sure gone quiet since the vote.

Last week they emailed out a brochure on the next steps for getting the stadium funded and construction started, so I wouldn't say it's gone quite.

As much as we would have liked the ground broken the day after the student vote, there are some administrative steps (BOR and Tx Legislature) that have to be taken before it spends up to much.

VideoEagle · November 11, 2008

lets face it, this board probably makes up most of the active support for this program. and you guys all really do give an 's'.

This is the only part of you post with which I disagree. The regular posters on this board don't make up enough people to the lower part of section E, much less sections D and F. I know of at least a dozen people who sit around me at the games who never post on this board. I have seats 29 and 30 (or are they 30 and 31, can't remember right now) on row 18 (or is it 19?). But that's at least 570 people in front of me and I'm not even at the half way point of the section. T

Green Dozer · November 11, 2008

Last week they emailed out a brochure on the next steps for getting the stadium funded and construction started, so I wouldn't say it's gone quite.
As much as we would have liked the ground broken the day after the student vote, there are some administrative steps (BOR and Tx Legislature) that have to be taken before it spends up to much.

See, this is how opinions like mine get formed. I have not received a brochure, and don't know why. I am a season tix holder, NT Exes Member, and MGC member. Seems they would make a concerted effort to communicate with everybody, after all we are the donors, both financially and other supportive ways. It just amazes me how information is put out so hap-hazardly, which leads to opinions like mine. And you will see examples of a lack of communication in everything the athletic department does. Some get the message and some do not. Man, when will they learn about customer service?

Thanks for the update, honestly, I did not know about a brochure being mailed.

Edited November 11, 2008 by Green Dozer

jimmyjames_99 · November 11, 2008

See, this is how opinions like mine get formed. I have not received a brochure, and don't know why. I am a season tix holder, NT Exes Member, and MGC member. Seems they would make a concerted effort to communicate with everybody, after all we are the donors, both financially and other supportive ways. It just amazes me how information is put out so hap-hazardly, which leads to opinions like mine. And you will see examples of a lack of communication in everything the athletic department does. Some get the message and some do not. Man, when will they learn about customer service?
Thanks for the update, honestly, I did not know about a brochure being mailed.

I can definately understand the frustration. I believe the reason I got it was I signed up on the meangreensports.com site to receive email updates (link below). However, I agree that a broader distribution could have been used to report this information out.

http://www.nmnathletics.com/main/NewsMailS...D=1800&KEY=