Coaching Change, Improvement, Recruiting

[e-bone ver2.awesome]

Nobody bashes Deloach about the defense. Why?

This is what I'm trying to figure out. The defense is worse this year than it was under a "high school" coach last year, and everyone bitched and moaned so much about Mendoza and how horrible he was, why aren't they doing the same about Deloach? Why is he getting a pass when Mendoza didn't and Dodge still isn't? If this is all about coaching then why haven't we seen a turnaround with the defense instead of seeing it actually get worse?

[VideoEagle]

Good post. Turn arounds don't have to take four years to happen. It's a good excuse.

Improving a team doesn't have to take four years, but it does usually take at least three. Sometimes teams get lucky and it happens faster. I think it is better to count on a rational building program rather than blindly firing the football coach every two years until one gets lucky enough to win. And the university administrators and BOR thinks so as well. If it doesn't improve in a year - not to a winning record, but an improved record - then they will start to consider alternatives. It's unlikely they would do so before that.

I'm going around with an eagle sticker on the car and the people who even recognize it just laugh.

I don't remember exactly, but weren't Tasty's statistics based on coaches with just two wins? Dodge now has three and does not have a winless season so I don't think the analysis still applies to his situation. As for people not recognizing the logo on you car, I guess you aren't around many real football fans. I have a North Texas sticker on the back of my car and almost everyone knows who we are. I usually get comments about while NT is in a tough time, "you guys hired a great coach."

[GoMeanGreen1999]

This is what I'm trying to figure out. The defense is worse this year than it was under a "high school" coach last year, and everyone bitched and moaned so much about Mendoza and how horrible he was, why aren't they doing the same about Deloach? Why is he getting a pass when Mendoza didn't and Dodge still isn't? If this is all about coaching then why haven't we seen a turnaround with the defense instead of seeing it actually get worse?

For starters, DeLoach is a proven coach on the D1 level. I think the play of the defense is much better at this point in the season than it was at the begining. Now if we could just get the offense to quit turning the ball over so much and or scoring some points we would be in these games at least by the fourth quarter.

[untgeorge]

Nobody bashes Deloach about the defense. Why?

Poor position coaches.

[Aquila_Viridis]

I don't remember exactly, but weren't Tasty's statistics based on coaches with just two wins? Dodge now has three and does not have a winless season so I don't think the analysis still applies to his situation. As for people not recognizing the logo on you car, I guess you aren't around many real football fans. I have a North Texas sticker on the back of my car and almost everyone knows who we are. I usually get comments about while NT is in a tough time, "you guys hired a great coach."

As for the statistics, you are really stretching it there. I don't know if it was limited to 2 wins or what. For the sake of discussion, assume it was. That win was almost not a win, it was against a provisional team, and just look at the result THIS week. I wonder if all the coaches in TY's rogues gallery lost so bad every time. Do you really think it would change the result in any significant way to study the ones with the barely third win? The bottom line is, you are asking us to defy history. Based on what? Blind faith I guess, because the results this year and last do not give you anything to go on.

My car does not have 'North Texas'. It just has the eagle, like all the people with the longhorn that do not have 'Texas'. I wish I saw more cars with the same, but I have never seen one, other than at or on the way to the games. I log a lot of miles too, particularly on I-35 between Dallas and Austin.

I would give a coach several years to build a successful program if I saw appreciable signs of progress in the early stages. We are even past what could be cosidered the early stages, and there has been NONE! I said that hire would be a mistake from the outset, before it was even decided. Now it is time for those who didn't to admit it and call for change.

[Green Mean]

To all the Dodge lovers,

I do not think the issue is about it taking 3 or 4 years to get a system implemented by a coach. It is just the fact that every single game has been an absolute blowout. We have looked like a high school team when we have played our own conference games. I just do not see how you all can be Dodge apologists. We are a joke in college football and coaching is the reason why we have fallen so far and so fast. I do not give Deloach a pass either...he is fully responsible for the defense and I blame him too.

[GoMeanGreen1999]

To all the Dodge lovers,

I do not think the issue is about it taking 3 or 4 years to get a system implemented by a coach. It is just the fact that every single game has been an absolute blowout. We have looked like a high school team when we have played our own conference games. I just do not see how you all can be Dodge apologists. We are a joke in college football and coaching is the reason why we have fallen so far and so fast. I do not give Deloach a pass either...he is fully responsible for the defense and I blame him too.

Do you seriously not think the defense is playing better? I think it is, but when you have seemly no help from your offense, it makes the defense look worse than they really are. If the offense could score in the first half of saturday, it would have be a very close game at the very least by half.

Speaking of our offense.....how GOOFY is it, that on 1st down from the 1 foot line, we don't have ONE single play that we can run from under center.

[Green Mean]

Do you seriously not think the defense is playing better? I think it is, but when you have seemly no help from your offense, it makes the defense look worse than they really are. If the offense could score in the first half of saturday, it would have be a very close game at the very least by half.

Speaking of our offense.....how GOOFY is it, that on 1st down from the 1 foot line, we don't have ONE single play that we can run from under center.

Oh I think the defense is playing a little better. I think with Deloach here we are still more stable on defense but I am just saying that EVERBODY needs to accountable and that includes Deloach. I just do not want to give free passes to anybody because it really can be better than what we are seeing out there.

We do not have a play under center because we have a nimrod coach who wants to have the shotgun in every single play.

Edited November 10, 2008 by Green Mean

[MeanMag]

This is what I'm trying to figure out. The defense is worse this year than it was under a "high school" coach last year, and everyone bitched and moaned so much about Mendoza and how horrible he was, why aren't they doing the same about Deloach? Why is he getting a pass when Mendoza didn't and Dodge still isn't? If this is all about coaching then why haven't we seen a turnaround with the defense instead of seeing it actually get worse?

I will give him a pass all day... you can't argue with his record on this level. Our defense will be fine in the future.

[GoMeanGreen1999]

We do not have a play under center because we have a nimrod coach who wants to have the shotgun in every single play.

I was listening on the radio to the game thinking, UNREAL.....here we have a 1st and goal from the ONE, and we are running the shotgun and we like to have not gotten it in. How hard is it, for an offensive genius to create a play under center for his playbook?

What a joke.

[e-bone ver2.awesome]

For starters, DeLoach is a proven coach on the D1 level. I think the play of the defense is much better at this point in the season than it was at the begining. Now if we could just get the offense to quit turning the ball over so much and or scoring some points we would be in these games at least by the fourth quarter.

The offense is not good, it is mediocre to poor. However, the defense is horrendous and I just can't understand people who can defend Deloach and bash Dodge.

Team offense stats

19.9 ppg, tied for 100th in the nation

379.7 ypg, 59th in the nation

Team defense stats

48.5 ppg, 119th in the nation

490.9 ypg, 120th in the nation

So I ask again, why is Deloach getting a pass when the defense is worse this year that it was last year? Mendoza's "high school" schemes produced better results than Deloach's "proven" D1 schemes. Why is Dodge's head being called for while no one dare question Deloach? I just can't understand the double standard.

Edited November 10, 2008 by e-bone ver2.awesome

[Aquila_Viridis]

To all the Dodge lovers,

I do not think the issue is about it taking 3 or 4 years to get a system implemented by a coach. It is just the fact that every single game has been an absolute blowout. We have looked like a high school team when we have played our own conference games. I just do not see how you all can be Dodge apologists. We are a joke in college football and coaching is the reason why we have fallen so far and so fast. I do not give Deloach a pass either...he is fully responsible for the defense and I blame him too.

For my part, I'm not even trying to blame the coaching. The blame lies in the fact that our school and its administration has a half-hearted commitment to football. The administration could lead the rest of the school and its various constituencies to a full commitment, if the administration had a full commitment. They do not. In today's world, if you undertake a competitive activity with a half-hearted approach, you get beat consistently and badly.

Due to its location, North Texas has a unique opportunity to capitalize on the benefits of a respected football program. While it would not necessarily make sense for a lot of otherwise comparable schools to make the required investment, it does make sense for North Texas. That is why it is a shame, and against the interests of the university and the community it serves, for the administration to waver. STOP WAVERING!

[GoMeanGreen1999]

The offense is not good, it is mediocre to poor. However, the defense is horrendous and I just can't understand people who can defend Deloach and bash Dodge.

Team offense stats

19.9 ppg, tied for 100th in the nation

379.7 ypg, 59th in the nation

Team defense stats

48.5 ppg, 119th in the nation

490.9 ypg, 120th in the nation

So I ask again, why is Deloach getting a pass when the defense is worse this year that it was last year? Mendoza's "high school" schemes produced better results than Deloach's "proven" D1 schemes. Why is Dodge's head being called for while no one dare question Deloach? I just can't understand the double standard.

Well 2 reasons in my book: 1) DeLoach has proven himself at this level and 2) DeLoach has far less talent to work with than Mendoza had last year.

[e-bone ver2.awesome]

I will give him a pass all day... you can't argue with his record on this level. Our defense will be fine in the future.

His defense this season is worse than the "high school" coach's defense was last season. If we can't wait for the future for the offense when the only players on the team that were recruited to play in this offense are 18 and 19 years old, why can we wait for the future when we have a proven defensive coordinator whose record can't be disputed? Is that the one area that should be expected to have had a significant turn around this season? Yet instead it is worse than when the "high school" coach who supposedly had no clue was the coordinator.

Again, why the double standard?

[NT80]

Improving a team doesn't have to take four years, but it does usually take at least three. Sometimes teams get lucky and it happens faster. I think it is better to count on a rational building program rather than blindly firing the football coach every two years until one gets lucky enough to win. And the university administrators and BOR thinks so as well. If it doesn't improve in a year - not to a winning record, but an improved record - then they will start to consider alternatives. It's unlikely they would do so before that.

That would be as good as what we're doing now. Does anyone see us winning next year or the year after the way this is going? We have become worse in two years, what science says we'll be winning in two more years? Plenty of good out-of-work college coaches out there; hire one on a two year deal. Sorry, but I am out of patience on these four year turn around coach jobs.

Edited November 10, 2008 by NT80

[GrandGreen]

So I ask again, why is Deloach getting a pass when the defense is worse this year that it was last year? Mendoza's "high school" schemes produced better results than Deloach's "proven" D1 schemes. Why is Dodge's head being called for while no one dare question Deloach? I just can't understand the double standard.

[TheTastyGreek]

ebone, Green Dozer, and others have asked why DeLoach doesn't appear to be held to the same standards that Mendoza was last year.

It's a fair question, and I did my best to explain why I still believe he's going to turn the defense around. The numbers are still terrible, the results aren't obvious yet, but I do still have confidence in DeLoach's ability to turn this defense into a force again.

For anyone who wants to see the DeLoach drive summaries I reference for comparison to last year, here you go:

Kansas State:

4 yards for a TD in 0:00 (1 play)

43 yards for a TD in 0:59 (3 plays)

Tulsa:

53 yards for a TD in 0:58

7 yards for a TD in 0:40 (3 plays)

50 yards for a TD in 0:25 (3 plays)

64 yards for a TD in 1:05

58 yards for a TD in 2:19

LSU:

59 yards for a TD in 1:39

60 yards for a TD in 1:56

36 yards for a TD in 1:50 (3 plays)

Rice:

77 yards for a TD in 1:53

61 yards for a TD in 2:26

56 yards for a TD in 0:48

63 yards for a TD in 1:58

19 yards for a TD in 0:17 (2 plays)

21 yards for a TD in 1:01 (3 plays)

84 yards for a TD in 2:22

FIU:

65 yards for a TD in 0:10

75 yards for a TD in 0:52

35 yards for a TD in 0:26 (3 plays)

48 yards for a TD in 0:59 (3 plays)

ULL:

80 yards for a TD in 0:57

89 yards for a TD in 1:59

84 yards for a TD in 1:50

ULM:

69 yards for a TD in 0:12

72 yards for a TD in 0:47

43 yards for a TD in 0:46 (2 plays)

Troy:

65 yards for a TD in 2:21

49 yards for a TD in 0:47 (3 plays)

42 yards for a TD in 1:18 (3 plays)

Western Kentucky:

60 yards for a TD in 2:01

62 yards for a TD in 0:19

32 yards for a TD in 0:20 (1 play)

26 yards for a TD in 0:08 (1 play)

FAU:

60 yards for a TD in 1:37

71 yards for a TD in 1:08

60 yards for a TD in 2:23

57 yards for a TD in 0:12

Edited November 10, 2008 by TheTastyGreek

[DirtySavage]

Mendoza took over a defense that returned 9 starters and ranked in the 70's nationaly and and turned it into a poop poor ( worse than piss poor) defense. His cuboard was full, less can be said as for what Deloach started with. Bliel was grossly underated and really was a very good coach.

[Green Dozer]

And the university administrators and BOR thinks so as well. If it doesn't improve in a year - not to a winning record, but an improved record - then they will start to consider alternatives.

I know you cannot name names, etc but any real, first hand knowledge of this. Have you really talked to somebody or are you just guessing? I mean, ever since the student vote their has not been one quote that I know of that any of them have stated how excited they are that a new stadium is going up to enhance our athletic program. I am sure Dr. B has made a few statements at the out of town tailgates, but nothing in print of any real substance. I have seen her at the coach's show since the vote, and no comments there either. I see a few of them at the games, but just going to the box. Not questioning you or being a smart ass, but I just do not get the impression they are really very concerned.

[KRAM1]

Some very good points on both sides of the topic...seems to me that those that want to "bash" Dodge are in one camp and those looking to support him are in another, and never the two shall meet. Perhaps it is time to "move on" and talk about "other" areas of the program. For me, I am about as worn out discussing this topic than I am the presidential election.

I agree that it is tough to be MEAN GREEN right now when it comes to the football program, but the players, coaches and staff still need our support for the remainder of the season..and beyond, of course. This season is close to "history" (and I will not be overly sad to see it end), but I will be in the stands for our last game thinking about the seniors who have worked their "you know whats off" to move this program forward. I hope each amd every one gets SIGNIFICANT playing time for their last home game on SENIOR DAY!!!!

Thanks to all our seniors and their parents...it has not been an easy year for any of them, but I do think they can all look back with pride and a sense of some satisfation over their carrer at UNT. They are all CHAMPIONS in my book.

Go Mean Green!

[e-bone ver2.awesome]

ebone, Green Dozer, and others have asked why DeLoach doesn't appear to be held to the same standards that Mendoza was last year.

It's a fair question, and I did my best to explain why I still believe he's going to turn the defense around. The numbers are still terrible, the results aren't obvious yet, but I do still have confidence in DeLoach's ability to turn this defense into a force again.

For anyone who wants to see the DeLoach drive summaries I reference for comparison to last year, here you go:

For the record, I think Deloach can turn the defense around as well. The point I'm trying to make here is that people are being unreasonable when they call for Dodge's head and completely put up blinders as to how horrible the defense is under a guy who is "proven" and has a "track record". If anything, it would seem more logical to expect a faster turn around from a Deloach coached unit. I personally am giving both Dodge and Deloach more time to turn this team around. I'm just sick of the double standard and how Deloach can seemingly do no wrong despite the defense being absolutely horrible under his watch.

[Aquila_Viridis]

For the record, I think Deloach can turn the defense around as well. The point I'm trying to make here is that people are being unreasonable when they call for Dodge's head and completely put up blinders as to how horrible the defense is under a guy who is "proven" and has a "track record". If anything, it would seem more logical to expect a faster turn around from a Deloach coached unit. I personally am giving both Dodge and Deloach more time to turn this team around. I'm just sick of the double standard and how Deloach can seemingly do no wrong despite the defense being absolutely horrible under his watch.

Well for one thing he's not the boss. For another, I wouldn't rule out the possibility that the idea for getting him back here was to appease some of our faithful, many of whom were among the ardent supporters of Coach Dodge's hiring. Maybe their ideas aren't very good. Regardless, there is the possibility that it wasn't well received by the head coach, so maybe he's good but not getting to have an effect. Maybe while he was out in LA he turned over a new leaf. Maybe he was abducted by aliens....

[Green Mean]

No I don't. I want more kids like the one's who were clean and less like the one's who didn't have enough sense to pass a drug test. I don't want the kids who will be trashing hotel rooms and shoplifting. I want more of the kids are intelligent enough to want to take advantage of playing football to get a free education.

Well if that is what you want then expect this football program to be in the toilet for the rest of eternity.

[VideoEagle]

Well if that is what you want then expect this football program to be in the toilet for the rest of eternity.

Wanting players like that is why OU fired Barry Switzer even with a winning record. And the reporter who led the charge got a promotion. I know this is a alien concept to some, but it is the UNIVERSITY of North Texas. Lots of very successful programs insist on reasonable behavior from their players and still win. Years ago, Maimi didn't and is still recovering from the aftermath. We have another thread on this board about a UT player who couldn't behave and got bounced just for writing the wrong thing. Tolerance for bad behavior actually has given some of our former coaches and their assistants something to hold of the heads of the administration when they should have been fired.

[Green Dozer]

Well if that is what you want then expect this football program to be in the toilet for the rest of eternity.

A lot of these questionable kids are simply products of their environment, and for every bad story you here, there are many success stories because they were given a chance. Some kids can't help their circumstances. All of that said, you are on Green Mean, until the TX's, ND, and all these other programs are willing to live with 6-5 at best, then you have to recruit the guys with some baggage. You, sir, are right on.