What I Think Is Needed To Have A Better Team

Smitty · November 10, 2008

About the Sunbelt. All this talk about when Dodge took over, us not being good but not in the crapper. Well, I think the Sun Belt is the crapper and for four years we were just the least smelling turd. That said, I think it takes time to build our way out of here. I don't want to be Ball St., ranked one year, then forgotten the next twenty. They are not the next Boise. I want out of the crapper, and if this is what it takes, then it will be worth it.

That is the lamest defense of Todd Dodge I have heard - that North Texas really wasn't that good a few years ago. True, the Sun Belt is better today than it was, but your statement that "we were just the least smelling turd" is crap. Especially concerning the 2002 and 2003 teams.

We were competitive in most of our non-conference games in those years. In 2002, North Texas played tough against Texas (eight QB sacks and held Cedric Benson to 49 yards on 18 carries), TCU, Arizona, and South Florida. And Cincinnati was co-champion of Conference USA that year, and we beat them in the New Orleans Bowl. In 2003, we crushed Baylor and played Air Force within seven points at their place.

No, we did not get as many non-conference wins as we wanted. No, it was not a great Top 20 team. But it was a damned good team that sent mulltiple players to the NFL, and we should be damned proud of what they accomplished in bringing us out of the long shadow of forty-plus years of futility and frustration.

I'm not criticizing Todd Dodge in this post and you can defend Dodge all you want, but not at the expense of that championship team.

Green Dozer · November 10, 2008

That is the lamest defense of Todd Dodge I have heard - that North Texas really wasn't that good a few years ago. True, the Sun Belt is better today than it was, but your statement that "we were just the least smelling turd" is crap. Especially concerning the 2002 and 2003 teams.
We were competitive in most of our non-conference games in those years. In 2002, North Texas played tough against Texas (eight QB sacks and held Cedric Benson to 49 yards on 18 carries), TCU, Arizona, and South Florida. And Cincinnati was co-champion of Conference USA that year, and we beat them in the New Orleans Bowl. In 2003, we crushed Baylor and played Air Force within seven points at their place.
No, we did not get as many non-conference wins as we wanted. No, it was not a great Top 20 team. But it was a damned good team that sent mulltiple players to the NFL, and we should be damned proud of what they accomplished in bringing us out of the long shadow of forty-plus years of futility and frustration.
I'm not criticizing Todd Dodge in this post and you can defend Dodge all you want, but not at the expense of that championship team.

Smitty,

You make good points. I want to be the Conference USA Champion, play and beat people that others in our area know about. Yes, it was a good team, but about the only ones that really appreciated it were you, me, and about >20,000 others who attended the games on a regular basis. Nobody else really noticed, and we certainly got no due in the DFW media.. The New Orleans Bowl, did we send more than 10,000 fans every year? We get notoriety for being the first team with a losing record to gain a bowl appearance. I want better, that is what I am saying. I don't want to sit around for another forty years of futility and frustration before we win again. Multiple players to the NFL? OK. but what about a player or two every year that hangs. This was not a lame excuse of defending Dodge, I am simply saying we have to give any coach 3 to 5 years. With your view, we have 36 years or so until the next championship. It would not make any difference who the coach was with this team right now, we might have 2 to 3 wins more at best the past two years, and we still would have not been competitive in the OOC games. Don't mean to make you mad, and I certainly see your point, but take a closer look at mine before you say I am disrespecting anybody. The championships were still in DIV I football, and that is admirable to have anything at that level, but they were still in the lowest rated conference that most college football fans and media do not care about.

oldguystudent · November 10, 2008

but they were still in the lowest rated conference that most college football fans and media do not care about.

It's gonna' take a hell of a lot more than a wing and a prayer on any coaching system to get beyond that status.

A George Harrison song comes to mind.

But its gonna take money
A whole lotta spending money
Its gonna take plenty of money
To do it right child
Its gonna take time
A whole lot of precious time
Its gonna take patience and time, ummm
To do it, to do it, to do it, to do it, to do it,
To do it right child

Bottom line, from what my inexperienced eye sees, you get what you pay for. Case in point if you're willing to lay out the SERIOUS bucks.

The year before Holtz arrived, the South Carolina Gamecocks went 1–10, and the team subsequently went 0-11, during Holtz's first season.
In his second season, the South Carolina Gamecocks went 8–4, winning the Outback Bowl over the heavily favored Ohio State Buckeyes. The eight-game improvement from the previous year was the best in the nation in 2000 and the third best single-season turnaround in NCAA history.[7] In his third season, Holtz's success continued, leading the South Carolina Gamecocks to a 9-3 record and another Outback Bowl victory over the Ohio State Buckeyes. The nine wins for the season were the second highest total in the history of the program.

Edited November 10, 2008 by oldguystudent

TheTastyGreek · November 10, 2008

A George Harrison song comes to mind.

Actually, that's a Rudy Clark song. He wrote a ton of hit songs in the 60's and 70's.

Here's the James Ray version from the early 60's:

YReG0deRV4s

As for George Harrison's version of "Got My Mind Set on You", it was successful thanks to Jeff Lynne. Jeff Lynne can make almost anything kick ass, even a spare part from a wildly overrated band 20 years past his "prime". Jeff Lynne eschews traditional toilet paper, choosing instead to wipe his ass with original covers of The White Album in a show of his superior talent and ability. [/end unnecessarily inflammatory musical hyperbole]

Fun fact: Jeff Lynne accidentally killed Roy Orbison with an intense stare of reprimand. Orbison, drunk on hubris and feeling invincible after the success of his 1988 comeback solo album (produced by Lynne, of course), tried to jockey for a more prominent role in the planned second Traveling Wilburys album. Lynne gave him a stern look, and Orbison's heart stopped cold.

George Harrison died because he crossed Lynne, too. That lung cancer stuff was all a bunch of hooey. Lynne had heard rumors that Harrison was withholding royalties from the surviving Wilburys, and called Harrison to scold him. As soon as Lynne raised his voice, Harrison was so terrified that his body physically could not take in or process oxygen, and he died.

Bob Dylan and Tom Petty make it a point to send Lynne birthday and Christmas cards in a timely fashion, lest they arouse his ire and suffer the ultimate consequence.

Smitty · November 10, 2008

Smitty,
You make good points. I want to be the Conference USA Champion, play and beat people that others in our area know about. Yes, it was a good team, but about the only ones that really appreciated it were you, me, and about >20,000 others who attended the games on a regular basis. Nobody else really noticed, and we certainly got no due in the DFW media.. The New Orleans Bowl, did we send more than 10,000 fans every year? We get notoriety for being the first team with a losing record to gain a bowl appearance. I want better, that is what I am saying. I don't want to sit around for another forty years of futility and frustration before we win again. Multiple players to the NFL? OK. but what about a player or two every year that hangs. This was not a lame excuse of defending Dodge, I am simply saying we have to give any coach 3 to 5 years. With your view, we have 36 years or so until the next championship. It would not make any difference who the coach was with this team right now, we might have 2 to 3 wins more at best the past two years, and we still would have not been competitive in the OOC games. Don't mean to make you mad, and I certainly see your point, but take a closer look at mine before you say I am disrespecting anybody. The championships were still in DIV I football, and that is admirable to have anything at that level, but they were still in the lowest rated conference that most college football fans and media do not care about.

My view is not that we have 36 years or so until the next championship. I'm not sure how you extrapolated that from my post. I merely stated a fact, that UNT's Sun Belt championship team ended a forty-plus year bowl drought (previous bowl appearance was 1959). My post was in opposition to your statement that "we were just the least smelling turd." My response was in disagreement with that statement. However, I'm glad you agree that those Mean Green teams were good.

And I certainly understand that you want better.

This is not directed at you, but just in general response to the growing tone of the Dodge debate: Everyone who supports Dodge staying wants better for North Texas, and everyone who wants to make a change wants better for North Texas. It's not a matter of loving or hating Dodge, it's not a matter of being positive or negative, it's not even a matter of patience or impatience because no one realistically expected a championship last year or this year. But we all want championships in the not-too-distant future and the question is how best to get there: by sticking with Dodge or making a change. To me, that question is still in doubt, and an evaluation should come after the season. From my point of view, the jury is still be out - but the evidence presented thus far looks grim.

Green Dozer · November 10, 2008

My view is not that we have 36 years or so until the next championship. I'm not sure how you extrapolated that from my post. I merely stated a fact, that UNT's Sun Belt championship team ended a forty-plus year bowl drought (previous bowl appearance was 1959). My post was in opposition to your statement that "we were just the least smelling turd." My response was in disagreement with that statement. However, I'm glad you agree that those Mean Green teams were good.
And I certainly understand that you want better.
This is not directed at you, but just in general response to the growing tone of the Dodge debate: Everyone who supports Dodge staying wants better for North Texas, and everyone who wants to make a change wants better for North Texas. It's not a matter of loving or hating Dodge, it's not a matter of being positive or negative, it's not even a matter of patience or impatience because no one realistically expected a championship last year or this year. But we all want championships in the not-too-distant future and the question is how best to get there: by sticking with Dodge or making a change. To me, that question is still in doubt, and an evaluation should come after the season. From my point of view, the jury is still be out - but the evidence presented thus far looks grim.

Smitty,

Can't argue with anything you say. And I will say, that North Texas needs to evaluate its committment to Div. 1 football, and I mean take a realistic hard look.