Kansas State Getting Rid Of Ron Prince

[houstonmeangreen]

Which is exactly why he was forced to resign. However, in the 11 years before those two seasons Snyder was 109-29-1.

Ron Prince was a first-time head coach, thus.....

Thank God TD isn't a first time college head coach!!!!! that was close! We have won one game against a 1AA team...let's extend his contact.

[UNTLifer]

They may make a run at Patterson, but his base at TCU is about what the package was for Prince. TCU has the willing donors and funds for a bid war with K-State. And, this on the eve of the Frogs' MWC showdown with undefeated, Top 10 ranked Utah.

Anyway, congrats to K-State's athletic department for recognizing that it wasn't working. I wish ours was the same. Our problem is that if we were 16-18 over 34 games, the idiots who run our department would want to name every building on campus after the coach. Our bar is set very low.

To wit -

Auburn OC - fired midway through the season.

Tennessee's Fulmer and his one national title, and division title from last season - gone.

K-State's Prince and his two wins versus UT - gone.

Us...3-18 over two years with one win over a full FBS team, and we're staying, apparently, with what we've got. Wish we'd set the bar higher.

<sigh>

Don't overlook the differences in situations, okay?

Prince followed Snyder who had built KSU in to a pretty good program. Dodge followed Dickey that hadn't really built that great of a program, but had success based upon 1 or 2 recruiting classes that panned out.

Dickey had a career sub-.500 record and I don't see anyone from the AD clamoring to name facilities after him. Oh, and before you mention the practice fields, remember why they were named, appropriately enough, after Mr. 4 Hour Practice.

Prince also runs basically the same system that Snyder did. Dodge runs an offensive system that is completely different and requires completely different personnel. Dodge has committed the future to freshmen, redshirt freshmen and sophmores. Prince committed to upperclassmen and JUCO's.

Claim what you want about how high NT has set the bar, but remember that comparing NT's program to Auburn, Tennessee or Kansas State is not a fair comparison on any level.

[Green Dozer]

How exactly have we set the bar higher?

1999, What I mean is that we are taking a big chance bringing a high school coach here, and are sacrificing in the manner we are i.e. wins/losses drug tests, etc. With a program that is the age of ours, short of cancelling the program, this was pretty drastic. We brought Dodge in here to build the program, I felt from scratch, and we were going to build a stadium. I think that says we are trying to raise our bar. I have looked at these two years as no different than the 10 year plan it took South Florida to build a program, except we are fielding a team. No, by our record, you could say we haven't. But our other moves say we are trying. I think sometimes taking chances and doing things different shows you are trying to raise your bar. Hope that clarifies it, and yes, I know it does not make a whole lot of since. Some organizational behavior guru would shoot holes in it, but that is just my theory. Hope that explains it a little better. Have a good one 99!

[Quoner]

1999, What I mean is that we are taking a big chance bringing a high school coach here, and are sacrificing in the manner we are i.e. wins/losses drug tests, etc. With a program that is the age of ours, short of cancelling the program, this was pretty drastic. We brought Dodge in here to build the program, I felt from scratch, and we were going to build a stadium. I think that says we are trying to raise our bar. I have looked at these two years as no different than the 10 year plan it took South Florida to build a program, except we are fielding a team. No, by our record, you could say we haven't. But our other moves say we are trying. I think sometimes taking chances and doing things different shows you are trying to raise your bar. Hope that clarifies it, and yes, I know it does not make a whole lot of since. Some organizational behavior guru would shoot holes in it, but that is just my theory. Hope that explains it a little better. Have a good one 99!

That doesn't sound like raising the bar - that sounds like making a move and then making follow up moves to handle the consequences.

And why are we like South Florida?

I'm not an organizational behavior guru, but I am confused.

[Green Dozer]

That doesn't sound like raising the bar - that sounds like making a move and then making follow up moves to handle the consequences.

And why are we like South Florida?

I'm not an organizational behavior guru, but I am confused.

Quoner, didn't South Florida build a program from scratch, starting about 10 years ago? Or was it Central? But I see us building a program from scratch, that is all. And when you start completely over, and taking a chance, that is raising the bar IMHO. I know it does not make sense, but that is the best way I can explain since I cannot see you in person at this moment. And you probably do not want to read a dissertation on it either. Now, I am confused. Are you an undercover guru?

[Green Dozer]

Don't overlook the differences in situations, okay?

Prince followed Snyder who had built KSU in to a pretty good program. Dodge followed Dickey that hadn't really built that great of a program, but had success based upon 1 or 2 recruiting classes that panned out.

Dickey had a career sub-.500 record and I don't see anyone from the AD clamoring to name facilities after him. Oh, and before you mention the practice fields, remember why they were named, appropriately enough, after Mr. 4 Hour Practice.

Prince also runs basically the same system that Snyder did. Dodge runs an offensive system that is completely different and requires completely different personnel. Dodge has committed the future to freshmen, redshirt freshmen and sophmores. Prince committed to upperclassmen and JUCO's.

Claim what you want about how high NT has set the bar, but remember that comparing NT's program to Auburn, Tennessee or Kansas State is not a fair comparison on any level.

Very good points. Good Post!

[GangGreen]

That doesn't sound like raising the bar - that sounds like making a move and then making follow up moves to handle the consequences.

And why are we like South Florida?

I'm not an organizational behavior guru, but I am confused.

Maybe, because S. Fla. was a start-up program that went 13-9 in its 1st two years, has never lost more than 7 games in a season, got invited to a BCS conference and was contending for the national championship last year. Man, you're dense.

[Quoner]

Maybe, because S. Fla. was a start-up program that went 13-9 in its 1st two years, has never lost more than 7 games in a season, got invited to a BCS conference and was contending for the national championship last year. Man, you're dense.

Yeah - I'm pretty f'ng stupid.

I know the history of USF and I know what they have done. I have no idea how that relates to us since we been on their 10 years plan for a century or so. They have had one coach in their history and made sure he was good and experienced when they hired him. Leavitt proved himself at a variety of stops including defensive coordinator at K-State during their 90's rise to prominence. He has an administration that supports him enough to repel offers from Alabama, Miami and Kansas State (so far) because he likes his situation.

So I ask again, how are we like them? (Unless this is the time-honored board practice of hitching your wagon to a random star that someone busted their ass to make and pretending that it can just happen for us because we want it real bad. Boise did it - why not us? PASSED US BY!!!!!) The stadium (that you seem to not believe will ever happen) has theoretically raised the bar, but there is already debate on whether or not Dodge will be around to see it no matter what happens.

How is hiring a coach and then having to deal with a bunch of problems with the personnel anything like what went on at USF? We have won fewer games in four years with two coaches than they have in their first two of football existence. We are both directional state schools in top football player-producing states and close to large media markets. After that, the similarities pretty much end.

All I was trying to say to Greendozer is that I don't think we have made the moves to raise the bar that USF did, but thanks for swinging by, GG.

[greenminer]

Getting the referendum vote through was huge for this program. I certainly think it could be a move towards changing the expectations around here...tremendously.

However, I will have an eye on our administration and coaching staff. Will they know how to optimize it? Raise your hand if your confident about that.

[GangGreen]

Yeah - I'm pretty f'ng stupid.

I know the history of USF and I know what they have done. I have no idea how that relates to us since we been on their 10 years plan for a century or so. They have had one coach in their history and made sure he was good and experienced when they hired him. Leavitt proved himself at a variety of stops including defensive coordinator at K-State during their 90's rise to prominence. He has an administration that supports him enough to repel offers from Alabama, Miami and Kansas State (so far) because he likes his situation.

So I ask again, how are we like them? (Unless this is the time-honored board practice of hitching your wagon to a random star that someone busted their ass to make and pretending that it can just happen for us because we want it real bad. Boise did it - why not us? PASSED US BY!!!!!) The stadium (that you seem to not believe will ever happen) has theoretically raised the bar, but there is already debate on whether or not Dodge will be around to see it no matter what happens.

How is hiring a coach and then having to deal with a bunch of problems with the personnel anything like what went on at USF? We have won fewer games in four years with two coaches than they have in their first two of football existence. We are both directional state schools in top football player-producing states and close to large media markets. After that, the similarities pretty much end.

All I was trying to say to Greendozer is that I don't think we have made the moves to raise the bar that USF did, but thanks for swinging by, GG.

Rewind. I was being sarcastic.

[Green Dozer]

Rewind. I was being sarcastic.

I am going to change my name to "dazed and confused dozer". Without comparing us to anything, anybody, I meant I saw bringing in Dodge as starting from scratch. Just like having nothing and going from there. That is simply all I meant. Gang Green, I now see your dense comment was meant to me, I am sorry I even wrote the post, made any kind of comment, just throwing in my two cents.. I was dense for doing that, and now I will go give myself 50 lashes. That is all.

[Quoner]

Rewind. I was being sarcastic.

Double rewind. I read your screen name as someone else's and went from there.

Can I offer you a handshake or a reach around as a peace offering?

[Green P1]

Roundabout?

[GangGreen]

Double rewind. I read your screen name as someone else's and went from there.

Can I offer you a handshake or a reach around as a peace offering?

#2 please.

[Quoner]

#2 please.

Boston pancake?

[TheTastyGreek]

Boston pancake?

Riverboat style.

[LongJim]

Jason Whitlock's take:

Here.

[Got5onIt]

NT could make waves if they hired an African-American coach at this point in time.

[GangGreen]

Boston pancake?

Dirty Sanchez.

[Quoner]

Brady Hoke, who is white, took a pay cut when he left Michigan to lead his alma mater, Ball State, the 17th-ranked team in the country. Even after a raise following a 2007 bowl season, he is still paid poorly ($240,000) by even MAC standards, has no coaching offices and the school's administration recently suggested in an Indianapolis Star story that it has no interest in properly supporting his success.

But six seasons into his tenure, he's developed into the perfect BCS candidate and positioned himself (if he chooses) to bolt from a university that doesn't appreciate or comprehend what he's accomplished.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

All of this talk of South Florida, Central Florida, and Ball State does nothing but prove my point - they hired coaches with collegiate coaching experience to lead the programs! We didn't!

Their athletic departments made it a point to raise the money to get the right guy in the head coaching position - we didn't!

Our athletic director got into a pissing match with one head coach, fired him, and then hired a high school coach a few weeks later. He should have been out getting money together for a real college football coach - he wasn't!

And, so where are we? Celebrating two wins against Western Kentucky, a provisional FBS school, and another against ULM? This is progress?

Raise the f'n bar, somebody please.

[greenminer]

All of this talk of South Florida, Central Florida, and Ball State does nothing but prove my point - they hired coaches with collegiate coaching experience to lead the programs! We didn't!

Their athletic departments made it a point to raise the money to get the right guy in the head coaching position - we didn't!

Our athletic director got into a pissing match with one head coach, fired him, and then hired a high school coach a few weeks later. He should have been out getting money together for a real college football coach - he wasn't!

And, so where are we? Celebrating two wins against Western Kentucky, a provisional FBS school, and another against ULM? This is progress?

Raise the f'n bar, somebody please.

We couldn't afford these guys. How can you even think of comparing us to the budgetary monster of Ball State.

[greenminer]

And how stupid of KSU. Seriously, after 2.5 seasons? No one is going to want to follow that road.

Watch them lay out the cash for a quality coach and get laughed at for this ridiculous amount of impatience.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

How many posts are you going to make that you mention , or at least hint that you are a lawyer? Why don't you call Rick and endow the coach's salary? Again, I think you need to find another team to follow. How about your law school's team? Or did you graduate from TX Weslyan?

Tulsa. And, they did what I suggested...got an AD who got funds together to hire Steve Kragthorpe, who at the time was the Buffalo Bills coach. See, read carefully, the AD went out and got the funds to hire a coach like Kragthorpe. In short, he did his job.

Now, Tulsa is a private school with less than 3,000 undergrads and had a stadium worse than Fouts. Yet, Kragthorpe agreed to coach there. Kragthorpe's immediate success with "another coach's players" led to an inflow of cash that led to the stadium being refurbished. And, after Kragthorpe left, Tulsa has been able to keep their gridiron success going.

[Green Dozer]

Tulsa. And, they did what I suggested...got an AD who got funds together to hire Steve Kragthorpe, who at the time was the Buffalo Bills coach. See, read carefully, the AD went out and got the funds to hire a coach like Kragthorpe. In short, he did his job.

Now, Tulsa is a private school with less than 3,000 undergrads and had a stadium worse than Fouts. Yet, Kragthorpe agreed to coach there. Kragthorpe's immediate success with "another coach's players" led to an inflow of cash that led to the stadium being refurbished. And, after Kragthorpe left, Tulsa has been able to keep their gridiron success going.

Just where do you think these wealthy UNT alumni have been hiding all these years? Tulsa's success is also due to the oil patch in Oklahoma, and has a lot of "oil money" from some wealthy donors. The city of Tulsa is not poor, and the local energy companies have generously donated.