To The Anti Dodge Folks

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Other than the fact that they were human beings living on planet Earth when North Texas hired them, there is no similarity between Hayden Fry and Todd Dodge.

Before Fry ever set foot on campus, he'd been coaching 14 years on what used to be called the Major College level. The 11 years prior to the NTSU job, he'd been the SMU head coach. Before that, he was on Frank Broyles' staff at Arkansas. He had already coached in the Gator Bowl, Sugar Bowl, and Cotton Bowl. He'd taken down Oklahoma in the Bluebonnet Bowl. He'd been a part of two SWC championship and had been named SWC Coach of the Year once.

The guy had skins of the wall before he arrived in Denton. Todd Dodge had no skins on the wall. His hire and Hayden Fry's were worlds apart because Fry had already been at the top of the college game, facing not only the best Texas' teams in that schools history throughout the 60s year after year, but also Frank Broyles Arkansas' squads of that era. Add to that facing Florida, Alabama, Georgia, and Oklahoma in bowl games.

There is no similarity in Todd Dodge and Hayden Fry. Quit bringing up what he did versus what Todd Dodge might do. Todd Dodge was in no way prepared to coach at the top level of college football; Hayden Fry was prepared to the hilt.

Just knock off the nonsense. Winning isn't a matter of hoping, believing or having faith. It's a matter of preparation. Dodge doesn't know how to prepare on or off the field for this level of competition. No amount of wishing, hoping, believing, and other nonsense can change that.

Our athletic director needs to get us a coach and coaching staff who can prepare for this level. If not, he needs to get out of the way so someone else can.

[GoMeanGreen1999]

Other than the fact that they were human beings living on planet Earth when North Texas hired them, there is no similarity between Hayden Fry and Todd Dodge.

Before Fry ever set foot on campus, he'd been coaching 14 years on what used to be called the Major College level. The 11 years prior to the NTSU job, he'd been the SMU head coach. Before that, he was on Frank Broyles' staff at Arkansas. He had already coached in the Gator Bowl, Sugar Bowl, and Cotton Bowl. He'd taken down Oklahoma in the Bluebonnet Bowl. He'd been a part of two SWC championship and had been named SWC Coach of the Year once.

The guy had skins of the wall before he arrived in Denton. Todd Dodge had no skins on the wall. His hire and Hayden Fry's were worlds apart because Fry had already been at the top of the college game, facing not only the best Texas' teams in that schools history throughout the 60s year after year, but also Frank Broyles Arkansas' squads of that era. Add to that facing Florida, Alabama, Georgia, and Oklahoma in bowl games.

There is no similarity in Todd Dodge and Hayden Fry. Quit bringing up what he did versus what Todd Dodge might do. Todd Dodge was in no way prepared to coach at the top level of college football; Hayden Fry was prepared to the hilt.

Just knock off the nonsense. Winning isn't a matter of hoping, believing or having faith. It's a matter of preparation. Dodge doesn't know how to prepare on or off the field for this level of competition. No amount of wishing, hoping, believing, and other nonsense can change that.

Our athletic director needs to get us a coach and coaching staff who can prepare for this level. If not, he needs to get out of the way so someone else can.

As if the actual playing on the field, or the off the field problems aren't enough for 99% of the people to see that we need some serious changes, Tasty presents a very strong case of just how incredibly hard it will be for Dodge to overcome this start, all based on previous coaches FACTS, and people STILL think it will get turned around. I mean there is virtually nothing to suggest that he will or even knows what the heck is going on. We are getting blown out to the extent that we don't even belong on the same field as our opponents, this in our second season, and it makes no difference.

[filmerj]

I don't know if we would be able to handle an fcs team..

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

I don't know if we would be able to handle an fcs team..

Well, we're about to find out if we can handle a half-FBS, half-FCS team in about 15 hours.

Folks, if WKU is blowing us out in the first half.... I mean, fill in the blank. It's bad enough that FIU and ULM were kicking the crap out of us in the first halves of those games. If provisional school WKU gets up on us large before the break....

I can't imagine it. But, then, I couldn't imagine getting blown out by FIU either.

Edited November 1, 2008 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

[VideoEagle]

Other than the fact that they were human beings living on planet Earth when North Texas hired them, there is no similarity between Hayden Fry and Todd Dodge.

Our athletic director needs to get us a coach and coaching staff who can prepare for this level. If not, he needs to get out of the way so someone else can.

Wow, you compare a guy after he's been a head coach at what was the University classification for 11 years to a guy just starting out. Of course they are completely different.

You forgot to mention Hayden only won 2 games his first year at SMU. Nothing at all like Todd Dodge - anyone with only two wins their first year as a head coach clearly doesn't know what they are doing and must be fired. Hayden's second year was significantly better that Dodge's has been so far as Hayden got 4 wins. But his third year SMU fell back to just one win. One win in his third year? The team is regressing in every area! Obviously this man can't coach.

I don't know if Dodge is going to be a success long term at NT or anywhere else. I do know that the consensus when he was hired was to expect 3 years of losing seasons, 6 wins in year 4 and competing for a bowl in year 5. No one thought it would be this bad, but bad was predicted. If we're in this shape at the end of next year, then it is time to re-evaluate.

In the meantime, the school does have a plan for the first time in decades. Donations are at an all time high. Season ticket sales are at an all time high. 18000+ people had their tickets scanned to see a winless football team playing someone NOT from the old SWC. Donations will certainly drop some after a season like this, but not to the levels they were before Dodge was hired. Things are bad, really bad, but it is not the end of the world. We knew things would get worse before they got better when we fired DD.

[SilverEagle]

Let me clarify, I did not mean people come to watch Todd Dodge coach. Its the constant change that shows a lack of direction in the program. When are we going to wake up and realize its not all the coaches' faults that we are where we are. I think why Fry left still holds true today (like you put it):

Per NT 80: "Fry left NT because of our facilities, lack of fans, lack of funding, and more $$ in salary at Iowa for him and his assistants"

We are still throwing pennies while other are throwing dollars, yet we expect to have a big time program at a bargain price. Not going to happen.

Fry has stated in his book that he left because he believed that North Texas would never be invited to a bowl game, and we probably never would be invited to join the SWC. The fans were coming, but just not fast enough for him. This is pure speculation on my part, but I believe that the other factors were better salaries for him and his assistants at Iowa, a built in yearly chance at going to bowl games, plus he didn't have to constantly fight with a stingy administration who had no real vision about how to run a D-1 program.

Now, as to this business about a new stadium. How in hell does that factor into TD's ability to prepare his team for a D-1 game and get players ready to win? There is a long line of coaches that have come here and WON MORE GAMES THAN DODGE IN OUR CURRENT CRAPPY FACILITIES..................MAKE THAT CRAPPIER FACILITIES.

TD had better learn a different way of being a head coach. If what I'm hearing about his style (total micro-managing) is true, he will fail miserably.

[NCMeanGreen]

This has been my favorite post in a long time...very funny...

[SUMG]

I do know that the consensus when he was hired was to expect 3 years of losing seasons, 6 wins in year 4 and competing for a bowl in year 5.

I'm not doubting you....but just wondering where you got this "consensus" from? I've never heard that. And quite frankly, I could deal with three years of losing...if I felt progress was being made.

It isn't. We are far worse this year, than we were last year. Far worse.

GMG!

[greenminer]

Wow, you compare a guy after he's been a head coach at what was the University classification for 11 years to a guy just starting out. Of course they are completely different.

You forgot to mention Hayden only won 2 games his first year at SMU. Nothing at all like Todd Dodge - anyone with only two wins their first year as a head coach clearly doesn't know what they are doing and must be fired. Hayden's second year was significantly better that Dodge's has been so far as Hayden got 4 wins. But his third year SMU fell back to just one win. One win in his third year? The team is regressing in every area! Obviously this man can't coach.

I don't know if Dodge is going to be a success long term at NT or anywhere else. I do know that the consensus when he was hired was to expect 3 years of losing seasons, 6 wins in year 4 and competing for a bowl in year 5. No one thought it would be this bad, but bad was predicted. If we're in this shape at the end of next year, then it is time to re-evaluate.

In the meantime, the school does have a plan for the first time in decades. Donations are at an all time high. Season ticket sales are at an all time high. 18000+ people had their tickets scanned to see a winless football team playing someone NOT from the old SWC. Donations will certainly drop some after a season like this, but not to the levels they were before Dodge was hired. Things are bad, really bad, but it is not the end of the world. We knew things would get worse before they got better when we fired DD.

I wasn't around for Fry, but I would venture to believe that even in his poor start at SMU the team gave indications of improvement. At least competitive in some of their losses.

Maybe someone who was around can back me up or correct me, but I have a hard time thinking that Fry's teams would be out of the game by 30 points in the second quarter to the likes of FIU, LaMo, etc...

[eulessismore]

I wasn't around for Fry, but I would venture to believe that even in his poor start at SMU the team gave indications of improvement. At least competitive in some of their losses.

Maybe someone who was around can back me up or correct me, but I have a hard time thinking that Fry's teams would be out of the game by 30 points in the second quarter to the likes of FIU, LaMo, etc...

No, he lost a lot early on, but usually in close games.

Hayden Fry's start at SMU

[Green Dozer]

It does take more resources and I agree Dodge is due the stadium he was promised when he took the job. But he, like Fry, also understood the circumstances and current resources available at NT and came with a "football plan" that was deemed worthy of any-level competition. Fry made it work but for Dodge it hasn't happened yet. Perhaps it will with some more time.

We fans will soon be asked for donations to the new stadium project and program's future. I hope the majority can look beyond the current won/loss records and give generously. We seem to have no Boone Pickens.

Yes, and no about wishing we had a Pickens. Unless the markets come back in a big way OSU will have to make some adjustments to say the least in their plans.

[Green Dozer]

Other than the fact that they were human beings living on planet Earth when North Texas hired them, there is no similarity between Hayden Fry and Todd Dodge.

Before Fry ever set foot on campus, he'd been coaching 14 years on what used to be called the Major College level. The 11 years prior to the NTSU job, he'd been the SMU head coach. Before that, he was on Frank Broyles' staff at Arkansas. He had already coached in the Gator Bowl, Sugar Bowl, and Cotton Bowl. He'd taken down Oklahoma in the Bluebonnet Bowl. He'd been a part of two SWC championship and had been named SWC Coach of the Year once.

The guy had skins of the wall before he arrived in Denton. Todd Dodge had no skins on the wall. His hire and Hayden Fry's were worlds apart because Fry had already been at the top of the college game, facing not only the best Texas' teams in that schools history throughout the 60s year after year, but also Frank Broyles Arkansas' squads of that era. Add to that facing Florida, Alabama, Georgia, and Oklahoma in bowl games.

There is no similarity in Todd Dodge and Hayden Fry. Quit bringing up what he did versus what Todd Dodge might do. Todd Dodge was in no way prepared to coach at the top level of college football; Hayden Fry was prepared to the hilt.

Just knock off the nonsense. Winning isn't a matter of hoping, believing or having faith. It's a matter of preparation. Dodge doesn't know how to prepare on or off the field for this level of competition. No amount of wishing, hoping, believing, and other nonsense can change that.

Our athletic director needs to get us a coach and coaching staff who can prepare for this level. If not, he needs to get out of the way so someone else can.

Hey, read my post. I did not compare Dodge and Fry. I compared circumstances. Money, facilities, money, adm support, money, and donors. Not that much has changed as for as the circumstances Fry had and what we expect of coaches, given even the credentials you mention about Fry, and how they can meet them. I am tired of being in the league the Florida Who's and the like. I want to go to games that people will talk about before and after, and not just on the board. I want it to be a lot better than it is now, and if it takes a few years of sacrifice I am for it. Last I checked there were no coupons in the paper for a 1/2 price program. Not looking for a Boone Pickens either, just a normal program.

[Green Dozer]

This has been my favorite post in a long time...very funny...

As compared to all the intelligent ones that you have posted.

[Green Dozer]

Guys, another point. You can bring Jeff Bower, heck even Will Muschamp from UT, and we might get a few wins. We might even grab the Sunbelt title next year, who knows? But, the new coach will continue to hit the "wall of circumstances": lack of donors to build a strong program like UNT could have (Fry), lack of facilities/stadium (all of them), lack of support from the admin (Dodge and Dickey both had it a little better with Pohl and Bataille). And you can call champions winners yes. But, OOC even then, going to a bowl game with a losing record. I simply want better. No, BCS is a reach, but a USM or Fresno State is not. And staying on a course to the new stadium is what needs to be done at this time. Yes, it is a risk, but the same old thing of yesterday remains the same new thing of today.

Thank you for your time and opinions.

[bstnsportsfan3]

im a true believer in giving a coach at least 3-4 years to build a college program. i am dissipointed with how we have regressed this year but i dont think dodge should be fired even if we do go 0-12. I do agree though that at this time next year if we dont make TREMENDOUS improvement, then i feel that its fair to call for his resignation or firing....but im willing to go atleast 1 more year to turn this puppy around!

GMG! Swim in the river of green kool-aid!

[Eagle96]

All,

I don't know what it's going to take to get this team back in winning form other than good recruiting and time. As much as everyone likes to beat up on Dodge & Co, he can't catch the ball for the receivers, he can't tackle the other guy for them, he can't make the quarterback make a good decision when throwing the ball. In case y'all haven't been paying attention, Dodge himself has said he's had to vastly scale back his playbook because this group just can't handle it. He didn't use those words, but it's pretty obvious. In reality, he has only one year of his own recruiting on the team right now. I don't know how many of them are redshirted right now, but no doubt some of them are.

Having said that, yes, we need some wins. Badly.

Right now we have as head coach a guy who was coaching offense for UNT during a time when we were pretty good back in the early 90's in the Southland Conference. Our defensive coordinator is the same guy we had when UNT had it's dominating defence in the early 2000's (one of the very best in the NCAA at the time).

Having said that, I don't know what happened from the 2007 season to the 2008 season. UNT is clearly far worse this year than last. From what I've seen though, I don't think any coach anywhere would be doing any better at UNT right now. You can only coach with what you have to work with. Hopefully this situation will change.

If in 2010 we are still playing below 500 ball, I'll get on the "fire Dodge" bandwagon. Until then though, I'm certainly willing to give the guy a shot. Don't forget that if the attitude of many on this board were employed elsewhere, the Dallas Cowboys would have never won their superbowls in the early/mid 90's because Jimmy Johnson would have been surely fired. UNT would have never won the Sun Belt title 2001 through 2004 because Coach Dickey would have been fired long before that. Yes we need some results. We need some evidence of improvement. But please remember that Todd Dodge is not a magician.

UNT 21, WKU 14

GMG!