The unOfficial "McCain Sucks/Obama Sucks" Super Thread

[UNTflyer]

Democrats are expected the increase majorities in both houses.

And then, according to Nancy Pelosi, we can expect more bipartisanship.

[JesseMartin]

I like that, in Flyer's post, his signature fits almost seamlessly. Lol..."This is how I see the election...it's a tie in the electoral college...who cares? Stadium fee passes!"

Kind of returns our perspective to the REALLY important stuff, huh?

[UNTflyer]

That would be super cool from a drama standpoint. We haven't had the House decide the Presidency in nearly 200 years.

But no...Obama is gonna win this handily.

Electoral tie. House narrowly votes in Obama. Senate deadlocked for the VP. Cheney casts tie-breaking vote for Palin.

Obama-Palin administration.

[meangreendork]

And then, according to Nancy Pelosi, we can expect more bipartisanship.

I can't stand that lady. She's like Hillary's twin sister...gives me bad vibes AND she's a little too radical for even me.

[DeepGreen]

I can't stand that lady. She's like Hillary's twin sister...gives me bad vibes AND she's a little too radical for even me.

Nancy Pelosi. I'm ashamed her last name is Italian.

[FirefightnRick]

Interesting:

A Man's Reason

In my line of work I have seen some things quite disturbing these past 13 years. I'm on a Technical Rescue Team with an emphasis in heavy rescue, mainly pertaining to Moter Vehicle Accidents. Thus we at times have to dig what is left of people out of automobiles involved in wrecks and fireballs. Needless to say, like the Medical Examiner staff who show up and do their job in assisting us, you get used to it......unless it's a child. The Partial Birth Abortion, which is described step by step in the email above that Obama supports greatly disturbs me to the core of my soul.

Rick

Edited October 31, 2008 by FirefightnRick

[meangreendork]

The Partial Birth Abortion, which is described step by step in the email above that Obama supports greatly disturbs me to the core of my soul.

As much as I don't like the idea of that method of abortion, I guess I'm looking at the bigger picture here, which is really a gradual erosion (by legal precedent) of right to choose and that this procedure was really intended to be only used when a full birth will risk the life of both mother and child. The method, mainly the suction of the brain, is really to ease the passage of the aborted fetus, as gross as that is.

The final responsibility of this choice really rests in the hands of the mother and (in some, though not all cases) the father and those close to them. I wouldn't support the ban either if I knew it would put mothers and medical staff in a situation where both lives will be lost when applied in a blanket and generalized manner. The downside to this is that people will abuse this procedure. However, and most importantly, the abuse of the choice to abort at late term shares similarities with other abuses in that the responsibility and moral weight rests on those who make the final decision.

Were I given the choice between my wife or child given the odds that neither will survive, I would hate myself, but I would choose my wife. I would hate myself more if I were to lose both.

[UNTflyer]

Edit: I believe this race is closer than it seems in the press.

Pennsylvania is now in play with the latest polls being within the MOE. Same with Ohio, which has gone red in the last two elections. NC, VA, and MO will probably break to McCain in these final days.

Virginia is close, and given its history of being a strong GOP state, I don't believe it will swing to Obama. Lots of military voters in Virginia.

McCain needs Virginia, and then either Ohio and Colorado, or Pennsylvania outright. Also keep in mind that McCain needs 270 and Obama only needs 269, because a tie would likely go to Obama in the House.

Edited October 31, 2008 by UNTflyer

[Guest JohnDenver]

Edit: I believe this race is closer than it seems in the press.

Even Rove doesn't see it as a close race:

http://www.rove.com/election

[FirefightnRick]

As much as I don't like the idea of that method of abortion, I guess I'm looking at the bigger picture here, which is really a gradual erosion (by legal precedent) of right to choose and that this procedure was really intended to be only used when a full birth will risk the life of both mother and child. The method, mainly the suction of the brain, is really to ease the passage of the aborted fetus, as gross as that is.

The final responsibility of this choice really rests in the hands of the mother and (in some, though not all cases) the father and those close to them. I wouldn't support the ban either if I knew it would put mothers and medical staff in a situation where both lives will be lost when applied in a blanket and generalized manner. The downside to this is that people will abuse this procedure. However, and most importantly, the abuse of the choice to abort at late term shares similarities with other abuses in that the responsibility and moral weight rests on those who make the final decision.

Were I given the choice between my wife or child given the odds that neither will survive, I would hate myself, but I would choose my wife. I would hate myself more if I were to lose both.

I hear you about the erosion (by legal precedent) or right to choose and the concerns for health. However, I feel that Obama will take it to such a further, uneeded extreme. I have posted this article by Princeton law professor Dr. Robert P. George before and no one here, that I recall, even said one word either way about it afterwards. Please take a couple of minutes and read it over and give it some thought. I'd love to hear what you have to say about it, and I'm serious. No B.S.

http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/viewarti...0Extremism_.xml

Rick

Edited October 31, 2008 by FirefightnRick

[FirefightnRick]

Anita Moncrief testifies in Pennsylvania court this past wednesday.

Moncrief also testified that, in November 2007, she was given a massive database of Barack Obama donors who had already reached the maximum that they are allowed to give to the Democratic presidential nominee. Her task was to cull it for potential donors who, though prohibited from giving any more to Obama, could give to ACORN.

Moncrief said that she received the database from her supervisor and that the person insisted the Obama campaign had provided it.

Obama has said that ACORN has played no role in his presidential campaign.

Project Vote national spokesman Michael McDunnah denied that the list came from the Democratic nominee or his campaign, and tried to discredit Moncrief.

"This is a low-level administrative assistant who was fired for stealing," he said.

I heard this woman interviewed Tuesday I guess it was? on Laura Ingraham's show and it was very moving to hear ther story. She's a single mom who was working for Project Vote in D.C. and sounded well educated as she spoke. I think she grew up in the south and relocated up to D.C. for this job. She explaind what it was that she did to get fired, which was to use the company credit card to bank around $900 over a period of time that she felt she needed to get her and her infant daughter out of a decrepit apartment building and use it for a depost to relocate elswhere. She said she had rats in her apartment the size of housecats and felt she had no other recourse other than to steal the money, and she sounded extremely guilt ridden and ashamed for doing so. She gave some great insight into the ACORN organization and said the Project Vote umbrella for which she was working for, orginally as it was meant for to be, was a very admirable program she felt was and still is worth fighting for. I'm sure her being disgruntled played a part for her coming forward, but she may have been subpoena'd(sp) to appear, but I don't remember and I don't believe this article mentions it. But she stated to Laura that prior to the lists of Obama donor that were forwarded to her, her chapter had a $28 Million budget, and shortly afterwards they were able to quickly raise another $2 Million to get their budget up to $30 Million.

Obama still maintains that his campaign has had nothing to do with this organization's voting efforts.

Rick

Edited October 31, 2008 by FirefightnRick

[JesseMartin]

Regardless of the partisan annoyances and opinions, I think Obama and McCain are great guys and great leaders...unfortunately in the spotlight you get so much of the crap like a lot of the links on here have shown...

Serious question, though, mostly directed to the conservatives...do you guys think McCain will provide any "small government" solutions? I know about his tax plans and such, which of course he needs Congress to pass, so his "opinion" on taxes only matter because that's what the public wants to hear about. I really want to see some executive retooling of the governmental infrastructure, and have seen and heard little to nothing from most candidates in the recent past as to having any interest in doing so.

[meangreendork]

and I'm serious. No B.S.

No, it's a serious issue, so I'm with you on that.

The short of it in terms of abortions is that I'd rather that they not happen, but if need be, then so be it, etc., etc., on abuses and personal responsibilities. Stem cell research is something I'm for, but mainly in the situations where the fetus is essentially going to be lost anyways. It's kind of in the same boat as organ donation. If I died and I was still somewhat useful in terms of body parts, then harvest away, as I won't use them anyways. As for stem cell research on a wider scale, I don't much like the idea but it's one of those things I've had to make a trade-off for in choosing candidates.

In short, either go with McCain and Palin who would seem to be trigger-happy with an already stretched-far-too-thin US military where we're looking at loss of human lives on both sides, but also massive military expenditures as well as geopolitical repercussions, plus the indefinite timetable for Iraq, and while great work is being done on the ground - the Iraqi people need to take responsibility for their own government / essentially overturn Roe v. Wade and take choice away from people...or go with Obama who would support more diplomacy before involving the military while also expanding it / deal with the possibility that abortion laws will be abused (like any other law) and the small possibility that we're looking at human cloning for the use of stem cell production.

I don't see mass production happening as there are too many who oppose it. I don't see a ban on firearms happening as Obama already stated he wouldn't start yanking guns from people, and that too many people, like myself, like our firearms. It's like when people freaked out about a draft - I didn't see that happening as that would basically be a political disaster and really thin out the quality of the military. We'd have to have a civil war for a draft, really.

That about covers that.

About the whole ACORN thing, McCain spoke at one of their rallies in 2006. I'm not so much hacked off at McCain being there (it fit his agenda and he was there for a good reason) but its how he's gone from "Man, I like ACORN, I'm gonna speak at their rally" to, "Man, I hate ACORN, let's smear them into the mud for my own agenda". Pick one, McCain, just pick one.

The good thing here is that no matter which presidential candidate wins, I think the US will be okay. Provided that Obama keeps a fairly centrist leach on Biden and that McCain doesn't roll over and die while he keeps his centrist leash on Palin.

Edited October 31, 2008 by meangreendork

[JesseMartin]

What about Biden's leash on Obama's gun control views?

Another thing I hate about the partisan deal...each side has their "pet rights"...i.e. which Amendments and S.C. decisions do you support? It's like asking which part of the Constitution you'll use during your term. Stupid hot-button issues to keep the voters in the parties' pockets (or is it vice-versa?) keep America from making any decent headway.

[Guest JohnDenver]

I don't know why stem cell research is stuck in with the abortion argument. I really don't.

Also, pro-choice doesn't mean pro-abortion. Personal responsibility. If you are going to hell for your choice, can't you still make that choice? Not being snide, being serious.

Just be clear, I figured that republicans always hate the government telling you what you can do with your property/body/money/family. Guess they only mean it when they agree with it?

I read the FOCA text, didn't see the term "no regulation" implied. It says that it will be a fundamental right, but didn't say without exception or regulations. Just that it can't be ILLEGAL completely again...

Nor, did Obama say in his speech that it would be the "first thing he does as a president." He said to secure the pro-choice right, the first thing he would do to address it, is sign FOCA.

[meangreendork]

I don't know why stem cell research is stuck in with the abortion argument. I really don't.

Also, pro-choice doesn't mean pro-abortion. Personal responsibility. If you are going to hell for your choice, can't you still make that choice? Not being snide, being serious.

Just be clear, I figured that republicans always hate the government telling you what you can do with your property/body/money/family. Guess they only mean it when they agree with it?

I read the FOCA text, didn't see the term "no regulation" implied. It says that it will be a fundamental right, but didn't say without exception or regulations. Just that it can't be ILLEGAL completely again...

Nor, did Obama say in his speech that it would be the "first thing he does as a president." He said to secure the pro-choice right, the first thing he would do to address it, is sign FOCA.

Thanks. Big time.

[Green Mean]

Isn't it funny when Republicans always mention they have small town values? It is pretty comical when about 80%+ of the population of the United States live in Urban areas. I wonder what kind of small town values they are really referring too.

[UNTflyer]

Just be clear, I figured that republicans always hate the government telling you what you can do with your property/body/money/family. Guess they only mean it when they agree with it?

Just to be clear, that's not what conservatives believe. We believe in limited government, and that the Constitution is clear in the limits on the power of government over your property and person. It is also the role of government to defend the rights of human beings.

Many pro-lifers believe an unborn child is a human being, and therefore the government should protect them. It's not about telling people what to do with "their bodies" as many pro-choicers spin it.

I'm an atheist, so I don't buy into the religious arguments against abortion. My personal belief... abortion is an archaic method of birth control. In this day and age, if you don't want to get pregnant then medical science has options that are far better than abortion.

[UNTflyer]

Isn't it funny when Republicans always mention they have small town values? It is pretty comical when about 80%+ of the population of the United States live in Urban areas. I wonder what kind of small town values they are really referring too.

"Urban areas include all urbanized areas (over 50,000 population) and Urban Clusters (2,500 to 49,999 population) as defined by the Bureau of the Census in the 2000 Decennial Census."

So if you live in a town of 2501, the government now considers you an urban population.

[Mean Green 93-98]

I don't know why stem cell research is stuck in with the abortion argument. I really don't.

I don't oppose all forms of stem cell research (and I don't know anyone who does), only embryonic stem cell research. The problem I have with it is that it requires the taking of a life. Other forms of stem cell research do not require this, several of which forms have proven more valuable than embryonic stem cells.

Also, pro-choice doesn't mean pro-abortion. Personal responsibility. If you are going to hell for your choice, can't you still make that choice? Not being snide, being serious.

I would view it the same as someone who murders his or her child out of the womb. Yes, one can make that choice; yes, he or she is going to hell for it if not repented of. But for a society to stand back and do nothing, even making laws condoning the action, makes us culpable to some degree.

[Guest JohnDenver]

I'm an atheist, so I don't buy into the religious arguments against abortion. My personal belief... abortion is an archaic method of birth control. In this day and age, if you don't want to get pregnant then medical science has options that are far better than abortion.

Wow, so black and white.

Rape? Terminal birth defects? Impending death of mother? Archaic?

So abortion, with hangers and such, is very medieval. Taking a pill in the first 48 hours to prevent pregnancy... medieval?

[Cerebus]

Just to be clear, that's not what conservatives believe. We believe in limited government, and that the Constitution is clear in the limits on the power of government over your property and person. It is also the role of government to defend the rights of human beings.

I'm pretty sure the only party actually championing that is the Libertarian.

[Green Mean]

"Urban areas include all urbanized areas (over 50,000 population) and Urban Clusters (2,500 to 49,999 population) as defined by the Bureau of the Census in the 2000 Decennial Census."

So if you live in a town of 2501, the government now considers you an urban population.

Over half of the population live in areas over 100K in population. And in general most of the population lives in areas of atleast 40K people. I would not consider that a total small town. Just me though.

[Guest JohnDenver]

I don't oppose all forms of stem cell research (and I don't know anyone who does), only embryonic stem cell research. The problem I have with it is that it requires the taking of a life. Other forms of stem cell research do not require this, several of which forms have proven more valuable than embryonic stem cells.

http://stemcells.nih.gov/info/basics/basics3.asp

If you call a donated invitro test tube egg as "life", then I suppose. I think that is a stretch. You can't just dump out that tube and have the cell survive. No heart beating... nothing.

[Guest JohnDenver]

I'm pretty sure the only party actually championing that is the Libertarian.

Who? Are they really a party? I call them a buzz kill... I love zip codes. I don't want to see them abolished.