The unOfficial "McCain Sucks/Obama Sucks" Super Thread

[Guest JohnDenver]

You are correct. Shame on me. My assumption was wrong... You know what they say... When someone assumes they make an ASS-out-of-U-and-ME.

You didn't answer my hypothetical question

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

PLEASE READ----- The long term capitol gains tax is currently 15%.... even if you earn $100,000,000 .......every year.

---For we non-multi-millionaires, we pay 25% tax on what we earn in salary for the amount between $30,650 and $74,200.... and if we are fortunate to earn more than that it jumps to 28% up $154,800. The worst bracket is 35% on earned income (salary for example) but you have to exceed $336,550 for that to kick in.

---The whole point is the the multi-millionaires pay taxes at a rate much lower that most of the poor working stiffs who go to work every day. When you hear about all these wonderful tax cuts we have been given... remember that was the largest part of the tax cut they brag about.

---Personally I agree with the low long-term capitol gains tax when the amount is rather reasonablel (example money coming from our retirements accounts) but not the these Warren Buffit type people who make 10's or 100's of millions every year. Warren Buffet actually opposed these cuts... he wanted cuts to the middle class...he cited his secretaries and others who needed tax relief, not him.

---For those who have swallowed the beliefs about all these cuts you have received.... perhaps you should check out your tax tables. You might be surprised.

The brackets mentioned are on 2006 table.... I don't have the 2007 one, 2008 one doesn't yet exist, but it is very similar, perhaps a very few dollars more... This is not made up or BS put out by some radio/TV/political guy.......look it up.

________________

On the state level, sales taxes, gasoline taxes, alcohol taxes, and tobacco taxes, have not been cut.... They claim they have reduced State taxes...ok... name one that you pay.....that has been reduced.

Edited October 28, 2008 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[GreenMachine]

PLEASE READ----- The long term capitol gains tax is currently 15%.... even if you earn $100,000,000 .......every year.

---For we non-multi-millionaires, we pay 25% tax on what we earn in salary for the amount between $30,650 and $74,200.... and if we are fortunate to earn more than that it jumps to 28% up $154,800. The worst bracket is 35% on earned income (salary for example) but you have to exceed $336,550 for that to kick in.

---The whole point is the the multi-millionaires pay taxes at a rate much lower that most of the poor working stiffs who go to work every day. When you hear about all these wonderful tax cuts we have been given... remember that was the largest part of the tax cut they brag about.

---Personally I agree with the low long-term capitol gains tax when the amount is rather reasonablel (example money coming from our retirements accounts) but not the these Warren Buffit type people who make 10's or 100's of millions every year. Warren Buffet actually opposed these cuts... he wanted cuts to the middle class...he cited his secretaries and others who needed tax relief, not him.

---For those who have swallowed the beliefs about all these cuts you have received.... perhaps you should check out your tax tables. You might be surprised.

The brackets mentioned are on 2006 table.... I don't have the 2007 one, 2008 one doesn't yet exist, but it is very similar, perhaps a very few dollars more... This is not made up or BS put out by some radio/TV/political guy.......look it up.

________________

On the state level, sales taxes, gasoline taxes, alcohol taxes, and tobacco taxes, have not been cut.... They claim they have reduced State taxes...ok... name one that you pay.....that has been reduced.

------35%>28%>25%--------

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

------35%>28%>25%--------

Skipped this one.

For an income between $7550 and $30,650...... you get to pay only 15%....... the same as Warren Buffett, Ross Perot, and friends on their long term (1 year? ) capital gains (profit) on stock and real property, etc. even if the profit is millions.

Edited October 28, 2008 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[Guest JohnDenver]

Skipped this one.

For an income between $7550 and $30,650...... you get to pay only 15%....... the same as Warren Buffett, Ross Perot, and friends on their long term (1 year? ) capital gains (profit) on stock and real property, etc. even if the profit is millions.

$0-$7550 == NO TAXES!!

BUT WHAT ABOUT ENTITLEMENTS!?!?!

Flaming lib

[GreenMachine]

Skipped this one.

For an income between $7550 and $30,650...... you get to pay only 15%....... the same as Warren Buffett, Ross Perot, and friends on their long term (1 year? ) capital gains (profit) on stock and real property, etc. even if the profit is millions.

capital gains (profit) on stock and real property, etc. even if the profit is millions.????

so what you are saying is they pay 15% on capital gains tax plus 35% for being in the highest tax bracket. How are the rich paying the lowest % of taxes?

[GreenMachine]

There is no plus...15%...period....

explain please.

[Guest JohnDenver]

explain please.

If you bought a diamond 20 years ago for $1000. This year you sold it on ebay for $9000. You don't pay 35%, then 15%. You *only* pay 15% flat rate.

When filing in 2008, taxpayers in the 15 percent income tax bracket or lower will pay 5 percent on long-term capital gains. Everyone else will pay a flat rate of 15 percent. Starting in the 2008 tax year, long-term rates are dropping to zero percent for taxpayers in the 15 percent income tax bracket or lower.

So, effectively, the very wealthy, who can afford to make large land grab, hold on to it for years, then sell, can pay 15% tax on the profit. Whereas you and I, who can afford to put 20k into a property, but need to sell short term because we don't have a huge rainy day fund, will pay 25% or more, because we just sent into short term gains..

For short team gains, like stock sales, it is your regular tax bracket.

[DeepGreen]

First, I don't find it inevitable. Second, I don't oppose a progressive tax structure (if done correctly).

The Republican seats that will be lost will still be in very conservative districts. Therefore you get a conservative Democrat rep (though you can hard believe they exist).

And why is it such a given that Democrats want "high" taxes?

Why can't a Democrat believe in fair taxes for infrastructure. How you define infrastructure is where you can argue... but taxes? Why is that such a tipping point?

Joe the plumber would have paid $900 more in taxes *if* that company really made 280k a year in profit. That $900 isn't preventing them from hiring another worker (of the legal variety). That $900 isn't preventing reinvestment. It is all smoke and mirrors and fear mongering. In reality, that company which he said he was "about to buy" only made 100k a year and would have seen less taxes... to "grow and invest" as they saw fit. So put that in your anti-Democrat pipe and smoke it

John Denver, do you actually own a business? Paid business income taxes; taxes on your inventory, unemployment taxes, etc., etc., etc.? Just curious.

[Guest JohnDenver]

John Denver, do you actually own a business? Paid business income taxes; taxes on your inventory, unemployment taxes, etc., etc., etc.? Just curious.

Here comes the "you wouldn't understand unless you have been there" argument. Much like one can't comment on play calling in a sport that they never played to a certain level. For instance, I can only critique middle school football.

I am a fairly smart person. With a background in math and sciences. I have paid taxes all my working life. I have paid both long term and plenty of short term gains taxes. I have been in most of the tax brackets in my life. I can understand them all.

Have I ever had inventory taxed? negative.

Have I ever had to pay uninsured tax? nope.

Have I have reaped the rewards of owning my own business? Nope.

If it is so hard to own your company, why not go work for an awesome corporation who pays 0% taxes like the rest of us stiffs?

Does it really mean that I can't *possibly* have a valid opinion on it? Is that really where you are going with that? Because that question doesn't really apply to my $900 more taxes argument on 280k profit not being a barrier to reinvestment and hiring.

[DeepGreen]

Here comes the "you wouldn't understand unless you have been there" argument. Much like one can't comment on play calling in a sport that they never played to a certain level. For instance, I can only critique middle school football.

I am a fairly smart person. With a background in math and sciences. I have paid taxes all my working life. I have paid both long term and plenty of short term gains taxes. I have been in most of the tax brackets in my life. I can understand them all.

Have I ever had inventory taxed? negative.

Have I ever had to pay uninsured tax? nope.

Have I have reaped the rewards of owning my own business? Nope.

If it is so hard to own your company, why not go work for an awesome corporation who pays 0% taxes like the rest of us stiffs?

Does it really mean that I can't *possibly* have a valid opinion on it? Is that really where you are going with that? Because that question doesn't really apply to my $900 more taxes argument on 280k profit not being a barrier to reinvestment and hiring.

I just asked a couple of questions. Didn't mean to get your bowels in an uproar!

Unless a they are a "not for profit" corporation, I would think that most corporations do, in fact, pay taxes. For the record, and because I work hard at my business and take all the risks, I'd prefer to keep the $900.00 that I made, rather than have the government take it from me and give it to some out of work "stiff".

Maybe some day soon, under the devine guidance of the annointed one, America's private business will see the light, close their businesses, and wait for the government to take care of us.

[UNTflyer]

---The whole point is the the multi-millionaires pay taxes at a rate much lower that most of the poor working stiffs who go to work every day. When you hear about all these wonderful tax cuts we have been given... remember that was the largest part of the tax cut they brag about.

Capital gains and income are two different things. We all pay that 15% rate on our investments, our 401K, the sale of our homes... Why? Because it was earned on capital investments that were already taxed. Lower capital gains encourages investment, which sparks economic growth.

[DeepGreen]

Capital gains and income are two different things. We all pay that 15% rate on our investments, our 401K, the sale of our homes... Why? Because it was earned on capital investments that were already taxed. Lower capital gains encourages investment, which sparks economic growth.

Hard for liberals to understand. What is the highest "income tax" rate currently? 35% or more? 35% > than 0%. Capice?

Edited October 29, 2008 by DeepGreen

[GreenMachine]

why not go work for an awesome corporation who pays 0% taxes like the rest of us stiffs?

that is 100% incorrect.

[chrisfisher]

You didn't answer my hypothetical question

I have trouble understanding why people have children in the first place if they cannot afford it, including medical insurance. If I had a child, developmental disorder or not, I'd get a job. If couldn't find a good paying 40 hour/week job, I'd get 2 lower paying jobs and work 80 hours/week. Heck, with school and work, I already work 70-80 hours/week. I am not insensitive to life's hardships. However, I believe in empowering people and that handouts from the government enslave, rather than empower. I also think that taxes are a true punishment. Behaviorists have well defined this: punishment = removal of a positive stimulus, and money is definitely a positive.

To answer your question, I think that the American people want their tax dollars to help people who truly cannot help themselves. Is this the case with the hypothetical family? I cannot answer your question without knowing more about the parents.

[Coffee and TV]

Hard for liberals to understand. What is the highest "income tax" rate currently? 35% or more? 35% > than 0%. Capice?

36%. And when Obama lets the Bush tax cuts expire they'll go back to 39%.

Socialism!

[chrisfisher]

36%. And when Obama lets the Bush tax cuts expire they'll go back to 39%.

Socialism!

If someone forced you into a business deal where they got 40% and you got 60%, but they didn't actually do anything, would you take that deal? Would you be happy with it?

BTW, you can send that extra 3% to me if you don't want or need it! Help a student out! I can PM my address to you for the check.

Edited October 29, 2008 by chrisfisher

[Coffee and TV]

If someone forced you into a business deal where they got 40% and you got 60%, but they didn't actually do anything, would you take that deal? Would be happy with it?

You're not forced. Move if you don't like it. Right FF Rick?

BTW, you can send that extra 3% to me if you don't want or need it! Help a student out! I can PM my address to you for the check.

Right. I make over 250k a year. Seriously, you people don't even understand the garbage you repeat.

Edited October 29, 2008 by Coffee and TV

[FirefightnRick]

They were in a photo together?

I dunno, it'd need to be researched though. I'm guessing (just guessing) that beyond this photo, Palin has strong ties to the guy, learned from him, or was mentored or something by him. That's at best/worst. Again, a huuuuge guess.

Great point. And there must not be anything to it because had there been we would have heard nothing but that yesterday from the mainstream media tying the two together?

Rick

[meangreendork]

Great point. And there must not be anything to it because had there been we would have heard nothing but that yesterday from the mainstream media tying the two together?

Rick

I'd expect it too, but *shrug* on that one.

[chrisfisher]

You're not forced. Move if you don't like it.

That's ridiculous. It's forced and you know else you wouldn't make such an lame statement.

Right. I make over 250k a year. Seriously, you people don't even understand the garbage you repeat.

No wonder you are so ready to raise taxes - "raise them as long I don't have to pay."

[ADLER]

But wait...

Isn't gomeangreen.com the watchdog group that investigates any ties between political candidates and suspected criminals?

And here we have a criminal convicted of seven felony charges, selling out the interests of our country for his own personal gain, and his associations are not relevant?

Until recently Stevens was one of the main people credited for Alaska's recent prosperity.

[meangreendork]

But wait...

Isn't gomeangreen.com the watchdog group that investigates any ties between political candidates and suspected criminals?

And here we have a criminal convicted of seven felony charges, selling out the interests of our country for his own personal gain, and his associations are not relevant?

Until recently Stevens was one of the main people credited for Alaska's recent prosperity.

Just to humor people, I looked and found:

- Stevens did endorse Palin

- There was a campaign ad planned out with Stevens in it

- McCain said he should quit, Palin asks him to do the 'right thing'

- According to MSNBC, Stevens is close with the former governor of Alaska, so the Stevens/Palin relationship is "wary"

- Another source says that Palin and Stevens' Alaska cabins are similar in design and that the materials are from the same company

- The same source says she came in on a PAC that Stevens was close to when she started in politics

- The company that built Stevens' cabin, Palin's cabin and the Wasilla sports complex are all the same and are close to both politicians, and neither cabins are cheap nor fast builds

It's all loose ties at best since the company is one that's basically like Home Depot of Alaska. Mind you, I still think Palin does not, in fact, know what God thinks, that she is not ready for public service, she's also not intelligent nor articulate enough to be in office, that she's got ethics problems, and I'm upset at her personal use of public funds, and I feel like she's as fake and power-hungry as Hillary Clinton.

But I think the Stevens thing is really unrelated, or loosely at best.

[FirefightnRick]

You're not forced. Move if you don't like it. Right FF Rick?

Right. But like myself, I hope the rest of you realize how great this country is and stay and help keep it that way. Like myself, and not like Michelle Obama, I hope you have always been proud of it and will continue to be proud of it regardless of whether your spouse or favorite candidate simply and only recently start to win primary elections or not. I hope you never go overseas to countries like Germany and crap on your country and apologize for it's failings like Barack Obama did when he told a group of Germans in Berlin this summer:

"I know my country has not perfected itself. At times, we've struggled to keep the promise of liberty and equality for all of our people. We've made our share of mistakes, and there are times when our actions around the world have not lived up to our best intentions."

I guess it was lost on him and the rest of those standing there waiting for the food to be served and the concert to begin the irony of it all that a Nazi flag or a Russain Sickle and Hammer could be flying over their heads at that very moment had it not been for the sacrifices this country made for them.

So yeah, folks can get out while the getting is still good but I doubt anyone will. After all I still see that Rosie Odonnell, Martin Sheen and Susan Sarrandon are still hanging around enjoying the fruits of this great nation these past 8 years?

Rick

Edited October 29, 2008 by FirefightnRick

[FirefightnRick]

S8sWT_SSQwE

Now Obama's tax increase drops to $150,000? What happened to $250,000?

Rick