T D

[Ole Green Guts]

Anyone who really beleived that TD was going to come in and be successful right away is an idiot. It is going to take 3-4 years for him to have his kids in place and understanding his philosiphy and really buying in to the program. I am probably the only one who believes this but I think every head coach should be given a minimum of 4 years to get things on track. The fourth season is when his seasons should start. I know in the now and here society that we live in that is impossible, but that fourth year is when the old is gone and he has %100 of himself in the program.

I am in the same boat as dodge, sometimes it isnt the coach - - no wait more often then not I am finding out its not the coach or the X's and O's but the jimmy's and joe's.

[UNTLifer]

What kind of experience would you even have to make a stateme......Nevermind.

Good to hear from one of our old ballplayers.

Edited October 29, 2008 by UNTLifer

[edcollopy]

good stuff...always nice to hear from someone whol played at UNT and is now a coach...thank you.

[UNT_playmaker]

Anyone who really beleived that TD was going to come in and be successful right away is an idiot. It is going to take 3-4 years for him to have his kids in place and understanding his philosiphy and really buying in to the program. I am probably the only one who believes this but I think every head coach should be given a minimum of 4 years to get things on track. The fourth season is when his seasons should start. I know in the now and here society that we live in that is impossible, but that fourth year is when the old is gone and he has %100 of himself in the program.

I am in the same boat as dodge, sometimes it isnt the coach - - no wait more often then not I am finding out its not the coach or the X's and O's but the jimmy's and joe's.

More than half the board were saying that Dodge was going to turn the program around and some were so extreme to say we were going to be BCS contenders. The same people who thought Dodge would turn it around in his first year are the same one who still think he should be given another 2 years to continue the EXPERIMENT.

[GoMeanGreen1999]

Anyone who really beleived that TD was going to come in and be successful right away is an idiot. It is going to take 3-4 years for him to have his kids in place and understanding his philosiphy and really buying in to the program. I am probably the only one who believes this but I think every head coach should be given a minimum of 4 years to get things on track. The fourth season is when his seasons should start. I know in the now and here society that we live in that is impossible, but that fourth year is when the old is gone and he has %100 of himself in the program.

I am in the same boat as dodge, sometimes it isnt the coach - - no wait more often then not I am finding out its not the coach or the X's and O's but the jimmy's and joe's.

Originally it was going to take that long, but an 0-12 season and you can add another couple of years to that process.

[KRAM1]

Yes to "Ole Green Guts"...but, where have you been while I have been getting hammered for saying the same thing for some time now! VINDICATION is sweet when it comes from someone who has "been there and is doing that"! OK, I am sure the post wasn't in support of my postings...I just wanted to "think" it was...BUT, WAY TO GO...RIGHT ON Ole Green Guts!!!!

[Charlie NT 73]

Ole Green Guts! Great to hear from you and see your postings!

I really like to hearing from a coach that knows what it takes

to build a football team!

I agree with you, so you are not alone, on giving the coach

3-4 years to implement his system, get his coaches and kids in

place, train these kids, and having the kids buy into the program.

I beleive Coach Dodge and his team will overcome all this

adversity, and start winning again. These kids are learning

and gaining confidence, paying their dues now and investing

for the future of North Texas football.

[untStein]

These kids are learning

and gaining confidence

Really?

[Charlie NT 73]

Really, damn right these kids are learning, gaining experience,

and becoming a very good football team!

[greenminer]

Really, damn right these kids are learning, gaining experience,

and becoming a very good football team!

Wait, what did I miss?

Does someone have a flux capacitor?

[Charlie NT 73]

Did you miss something?

Looks like you have missed the boat-

Try again.

[Mean Green 93-98]

Ole Green Guts, thank you for adding a measure of perspective and sanity to the conversation.

[PerryG2480]

An interesting read from the 5A forum:

"Originally Posted by ThEgReAtOnE

I've said this before... Todd Dodge needs "time" to develop this UNT program. It's not like he took over a school known for its' great or even decent "winning" legacy. (IE... Notre Dame-Weise, Michigan-RR) He has to also learn how to "Head Coach" on the FBS level... there's quite a bit of executive responsibility that is involved.

There are plenty of kids doping or using "recreational" drugs, that play in the FBS. Simple fact is there needs to be an self-understanding with Dodge. YOU WILL NOT FIND TALENT IN THE DFW AREA. (At least not right now.) That area is picked over, time and again, by the Big XII, SEC, MWC and C-USA. Once Dodge understands that there needs to be a sufficient (average, at least) athletic basis to the style of coaching he wants to input, he'll have to go outside of the DFW/East Tx Regions to find it.

Now, on to the coaching style. Lets face it... he wasn't winning until he got to SLC. As a matter of fact, he hadn't had a winning season in his previous 6 stops, at 3 different schools (Cameron/8-12, Newman Smith/9-11, Keller Fossil Ridge/7-12). His system worked because of the petigree of athletic talent in the Southlake suburb. The FBS is really no different, as long as the system can utilize at least an average athletic basis.. IE... Boise State, Hawaii and Utah. And when you can mix in elite talent (especially with a Spread System) the results are Boise State (BCS-2006), Hawaii (BCS-2007) and Texas Tech (last few years).

DC_Deloach is a position coach... not a DC, and I could care less what he did at UNT back in 2001/2002. UNT has the worst defense in the FBS, giving up nearly 50 pts per game. Gotta go DeLoach! Also, the O-line is horrible... I know Leftwich personally... decent guy... not so decent coach. Plus, this Ford OC... sorry, Dodge, but there's loyalty then there's stupidity. This dude is not ready to be an OC.. you gotta get some one who knows what to exploit. What worked in HS... wont always work in college.

All of this said, winning NC's is about 70% recruiting (athletes) and 30% system. Adequate athletes in a brilliant system can win non-BCS Conference Titles. Good athletes in a brilliant system can win National Titles. Great athletes in a brilliant system can build a legacy, almost unmatched.

Dodge, learn the game of recruiting. You can do it. 1st bit of advice... learn some of the dirtiest tricks in the book.. and use'em. Think like a car salesman. Hard-sell everyone! It's about the net.. not the gross! "

[Ole Green Guts]

PErry G thats a nice rest except for the attack of coaches in that post.

I played defense my first year under Chuck Mills and I tell you what DeLoach is as good as they come as a coach and person. He is having to undo the damage that was done prior to him coming back to NT. He is a quality DC and will be fine if given the time to do his job, the question I have is what qualifications does the person writing the article have to judge him as a DC?

Leftwich is a get r done coach - meaning he gives you the tools and the knowledge of what to do and how to do it and then he expects you to get it done in whatever way is neccisary. I can tell you playing with Brewster, Randell, Zuniga, and Bense (and I would not think or know this other wise) cohesivness in the a line is VERY IMPORTANT to success. The 2002 Championship game at fouts, we were making adjustment in the huddle vs NMSU without a coach because lefty instilled the knowledge and tools to get it done.

All in all everyone is entitled to their opinions and that is what we all have. I know that we need to understand firing of coaches is going to do nothing positive. In fact its going to create a large pit in the football program. We are not going to get any tenure coaches at this point. We need to give ALL the coaches time and opportunity and if things dont work out in a few years then move on. Firing coaches now is going to create a nasty situation, would you want to work where the guy before you was quickly fired and not given ample time to produce? HELL NO!

Edited October 29, 2008 by Ole Green Guts

[Mean Green 93-98]

I've gotta disagree about DeLoach. The man will get things turned around on defense.

One thing about Dodge--people keep mentioning how he never did anything before SLC, and just inherited a juggernaut. Dodge's predecessor, Tom Rapp, had a good team, but it was hardly a juggernaut. Even when Dodge stepped in, SLC was not dominating right away. A very respectable 9-5 his first year, 10-5 his second year, but not dominating. But then things really "clicked." 16-0, 15-1, 16-0, 16-0, 16-0. It looks like he really got things figured out, as did his players. I know 5-A Texas high school football is not the same as 1-A NCAA football, but I am holding out hope that things will "click" at some point.

[PerryG2480]

Matt,

I said it was an interesting read moreso because of his equations of athletic ability combined with the offensive system. I didn't particularly appreciate the coach-bashing either, but keep in mind the guy is a Sooner fan. All in all though, he did say that Dodge just needs more time.

[Green Mean]

I will say that I was never totally on board with the Dodge hire. After all he was a successful high school coach who already had a successful football program. You cannot honestly defend a coach who has his team giving up 50 pts a game. A well coached team will play much better than this. I don't want a coach learning on the job if the learning curve is that big. Dude we are still D1A football.

[VideoEagle]

More than half the board were saying that Dodge was going to turn the program around and some were so extreme to say we were going to be BCS contenders. The same people who thought Dodge would turn it around in his first year are the same one who still think he should be given another 2 years to continue the EXPERIMENT.

Actually, when they were still looking I repeated wrote what I've been told by coaches in the past: it takes a college coach three to four years to fully implement a new system. Any school getting a new coach who is bringing in a new system should plan for three consecutive losing seasons, followed by one around .500 season and then expect 7 or more wins. About one third of coaches get lucky and get things done faster, but two thirds do not. And many of those who get lucky their first year have poor second or third years. Building a program takes time and there are no good short cuts to building a long term winning team.

That said, there is a big difference between a losing season of 2 to 5 wins and an 0-fer season.

[calvin]

Let me ask you this, why did it not take Rice 4 years to get going and they used to run the ball more than we did ? And why didnt it take Troy 4 years, they were a run based offense like us ? I am not against Dodge at all and I agree he should have 4 years, unless we go 0-12 next year. But my main concern is, why hasnt there been any improvement since day 1 ? To me it has gotten worse, and as a coach the wins and losses will take care of themselves but you have to show improvement or get worse and we havent shown any improvement.

[Got5onIt]

OGG,

I respect you and your opinion, but I have to disagree with you. As someone who played in college, you and I both know high school football is nothing like college football. Talent level is thinned out severely at the high school level, then combine that with maturity, football intelligence, and you know it's a whole other world. You are at the mercy of the local population and which kids want to play. These guys have a HUGE hand on which players can put on a NT uniform. Minimizing what's going on to talent level is an injustice & unfair to the current players on this team, IMO.

Edited October 29, 2008 by Got5onIt

[UNTLifer]

Got5, I would disagree with your comment about talent. NT has, by the recruiting experts opinions, put together two very good classes in 07 and 08. My concern would be that Dodge succeed at SLC and not anywhere else as a head coach.

[Mean Green 93-98]

More than half the board were saying that Dodge was going to turn the program around and some were so extreme to say we were going to be BCS contenders. The same people who thought Dodge would turn it around in his first year are the same one who still think he should be given another 2 years to continue the EXPERIMENT.

Playmaker, you were the one who thought Dodge would turn it around his first year.

Todd Dodge and the Mean Green have much more going for them, than the Cowboys will in a long time. Our coach is a proven winner in alot of our players and potential players eyes, and he will prove it to all of us this Sept.

GO MEAN GREEN

http://www.gomeangreen.com/forums/index.ph...st&p=274614

Quit blowing smoke.

[Got5onIt]

Got5, I would disagree with your comment about talent. NT has, by the recruiting experts opinions, put together two very good classes in 07 and 08. My concern would be that Dodge succeed at SLC and not anywhere else as a head coach.

I edited my post but I mean talent level is thinned out severely in high school. Most high schools would be lucky to have one or two players play division 1 football.

I do agree with you 100% on what you're trying to say.

[Dodge2007]

Its gotten worse because Dodge has lost most of his players with all the woulda should coulda and "we are family." I would love to hear from last year's senior players to compare DD to TD. I would like to know how the Soph., Juniors and this year's Senior's feel about the coaching staff?

Has the team lost faith and trust for a coach who have never taken one ounce of blame in two seasons. Are the players buying in or have they checked out?

We know how one senior feels by listening to Mr. Meagers posting. I'm sure their probably many others.

It appears that many have checked out. If what Tasty said was correct about ULM making adjustments reading our calls and knew when we were gonna run or pass, how do you think the OL and QB feel knowing the defense has an advantage on most plays. This ain't high school ball. Dodge cannot outcoach the opposing coaches on the opposite sideline anymore.

Go back and listen to his arrogant comments on his hiring concerning the Sunbelt, it tells how much he underestimated the Belt.

Edited October 29, 2008 by Dodge2007

[Got5onIt]

Its gotten worse because Dodge has lost most of his players with all the woulda should coulda and "we are family." I would love to hear from last year's senior players to compare DD to TD. I would like to know how the Soph., Juniors and this year's Senior's feel about the coaching staff?

Has the team lost faith and trust for a coach who have never taken one ounce of blame in two seasons. Are the players buying in or have they checked out?

We know how one senior feels by listening to Mr. Meagers posting. I'm sure their probably many others.

It appears that many have checked out. If what Tasty said was correct about ULM making adjustments reading our calls and knew when we were gonna run or pass, how do you think the OL and QB feel knowing the defense has an advantage on most plays. This ain't high school ball. Dodge cannot outcoach the opposing coaches on the opposite sideline anymore.

Go back and listen to his arrogant comments on his hiring concerning the Sunbelt, it tells how much he underestimated the Belt.

DAMN!!!!!!! This was an unexpected post!!

Dodge2007, who stole your account and posted this??