Coaching Vs. Talent

[shaft]

The Dodge apologist on this board keep saying its the talent not the coaching. And I know people on this board like to freak out anytime anyone remotely hints that a player isn't ready for D1, so just list the position and not the players name. Let's use this thread as a chance to let the Dodge L&A's explain their argument and not just hint the players aren't up to snuff.

[DirtySavage]

These are the ineptitudes I saw at last nights game, its either coaching or lack of tallent in each of these phases:

DE

Safety

Corner

Qb

O line

all phases of special teams, the exception being Truman Spencer ( with a side note being that Knott did show improvement last night)

These are the areas we need to improve vastly to start being competitive.

[hickoryhouse]

These are the ineptitudes I saw at last nights game, its either coaching or lack of tallent in each of these phases:

DE

Safety

Corner

Qb

O line

all phases of special teams, the exception being Truman Spencer ( with a side note being that Knott did show improvement last night)

These are the areas we need to improve vastly to start being competitive.

QB? Granted I wasn't there or able to see the game last night but what is wrong with Vizza? Do you think it ishim or do you think that the guys just in a system that doesn't help his QB?

Either way what was it that we saw last year that isn't here this year?

Personally I love the guy's tenacity and power, he plays like every play is going to be his last and for that reason I love watching him

[DirtySavage]

Don't get me wrong, I love to watch the kid run people over and he has the heart and spirit of a champion. But in this jacked up dodge system he just isn't making the throws on time or in the right spots. He was running for his life at times last night, but he threw picks when he had time and threw behind Fitz or in the wrong spot. He had a lot of balls that were near picks. I guess my biggest dissapointment with the don is that I'm not seeing improvement in the way he's throwing the rock. But let me restate that I love the way he approaches the game and he has great fire, and I his leadership is great. I just question some of the throws he's lofting across the middle. I would love to see him on the field every game, maybe just not at qb.

Edited October 26, 2008 by DirtySavage

[Green P1]

Don't get me wrong, I love to watch the kid run people over and he has the heart and spirit of a champion. But in this jacked up dodge system he just isn't making the throws on time or in the right spots. He was running for his life at times last night, but he threw picks when he had time and threw behind Fitz or in the wrong spot. He had a lot of balls that were near picks. I guess my biggest dissapointment with the don is that I'm not seeing improvement in the way he's throwing the rock. But let me restate that I love the way he approaches the game and he has great fire, and I his leadership is great. I just question some of the throws he's lofting across the middle. I would love to see him on the field every game, maybe just not at qb.

Gagree 100%

[DirtySavage]

Gagree 100%

Does that mean you agree and it makes you sick ?

or does that mean you dissagree with my assesment and I make you sick?

If the latter is true be prepared to be challenged to a deathmatch in the thunderdome.

[Travis]

QB? Granted I wasn't there or able to see the game last night but what is wrong with Vizza? Do you think it ishim or do you think that the guys just in a system that doesn't help his QB?

Either way what was it that we saw last year that isn't here this year?

Personally I love the guy's tenacity and power, he plays like every play is going to be his last and for that reason I love watching him

I don't blame him as much as many others do. He made some mistakes. But, I am not asking for a change in guard or anything. If time after time I was running for my life... even the plays where i do actually have time i am still worried that i am going to be completely blind-sided.

I am not hard on him as everyone else.

I also saw a WR give up/not go 100% on a ball. And I saw WR's drop quite a few too.

[PHSCoach]

I don't blame him as much as many others do. He made some mistakes. But, I am not asking for a change in guard or anything. If time after time I was running for my life... even the plays where i do actually have time i am still worried that i am going to be completely blind-sided.

I am not hard on him as everyone else.

I also saw a WR give up/not go 100% on a ball. And I saw WR's drop quite a few too.

These are the best recruits that UNT has ever had you must be mistaken.

I feel the QB is doing what he can but if you are worried about gitting hit get off the field...........

[Zeke]

Don't get me wrong, I love to watch the kid run people over and he has the heart and spirit of a champion. But in this jacked up dodge system he just isn't making the throws on time or in the right spots. He was running for his life at times last night, but he threw picks when he had time and threw behind Fitz or in the wrong spot. He had a lot of balls that were near picks. I guess my biggest dissapointment with the don is that I'm not seeing improvement in the way he's throwing the rock. But let me restate that I love the way he approaches the game and he has great fire, and I his leadership is great. I just question some of the throws he's lofting across the middle. I would love to see him on the field every game, maybe just not at qb.

I think he has regressed unfortunatly. Calvin mentioned it in another thread, but I think we all thought that the Navy game was a glimpse into the future. It obviously isn't. The long ball simply isn't accurate enough to make opposing defenses account for it.

[DirtySavage]

I don't blame him as much as many others do. He made some mistakes. But, I am not asking for a change in guard or anything. If time after time I was running for my life... even the plays where i do actually have time i am still worried that i am going to be completely blind-sided.

I am not hard on him as everyone else.

I also saw a WR give up/not go 100% on a ball. And I saw WR's drop quite a few too.

I don't think he was the sole reason we lost. I just listed some things about the team that needed improvement and a discussion insued about vizza. I blame the defense and playcalling much more.

[NT80]

I don't think he was the sole reason we lost. I just listed some things about the team that needed improvement and a discussion insued about vizza. I blame the defense and playcalling much more.

I'll blame the playcalling too, but Vizza did not look sharp yesterday, passing or running. Well, two running plays for him up the middle he made firsts, those were good, but the ones around end he had no chance to beat a faster DB/LB ever. I was wanting to see a backup going into the 4th quarter. Some nights they just need to try another guy for a spark. Same with coaching.!!

[meangreendork]

These are the best recruits that UNT has ever had you must be mistaken.

I feel the QB is doing what he can but if you are worried about gitting hit get off the field...........

It's not really that simple. Back when Meager (your son) was the QB, many of us figured he'd be the complete package QB much the same way we think Vizza is now. But the OL back then seems like it is now, and it's not giving the QB time to look downfield. Meager ran for his life on more than one occasion and threw his share of bad passes because of it. It's pretty much the same problem now. Don't get me wrong, I like the fact that Dodge is getting really good skill position players, but relying solely on them to win the game is something you can only do on "planet playstation". Dodge or whomever replaces him, has to get the right guys up front because in reality, a strong OL can make a horrible QB look good. How much more if that OL has QBs with the ability to scramble or pass like Meager, Vizza, or Tune or Dodge?

[PHSCoach]

Don't get me wrong, I like the fact that Dodge is getting really good skill position players, but relying solely on them to win the game is something you can only do on "planet playstation". Dodge or whomever replaces him, has to get the right guys up front because in reality, a strong OL can make a horrible QB look good. How much more if that OL has QBs with the ability to scramble or pass like Meager, Vizza, or Tune or Dodge?

I'm still looking for the skill position players to stepup all I see making plays are the leftovers

[UNT Mean Green]

Anyone else think our offensive lineman's splits are too narrow, which don't allow for wide throwing lanes and also causes the box to be more crowded making it difficult to run? Seems like when you watch the best spread offenses their lineman have very wide splits (3+ feet) or so.

[class84]

I think he has regressed unfortunatly. Calvin mentioned it in another thread, but I think we all thought that the Navy game was a glimpse into the future. It obviously isn't. The long ball simply isn't accurate enough to make opposing defenses account for it.

It's not just Vizza that has regressed. Look at the carryover starters from last season. Has Robertson gotten better? No. Bush? Nope. Gilmore, no. Anyone on either line? Not appreciably. The only player I've seen get better is Tobe Nwigne.

That is what worries me about the future. If you could see individual players getting better and more comfortable with the system, I'd feel good about next year even with the expected 0-12 this year. But I don't see anyone getting better, and Vizza is getting worse. We have such a long way to go to even get to merely bad, that 2 wins next year may be as good as we can hope for.

[oldguystudent]

2 wins next year

When did they add the two NJCAA games?

[shaft]

I think calling out the players is B.S.

I think its the coaches' job to fit the scheme to the talent they have (that's what Dickey did, and that's why what Dickey did worked.)

[NM Green]

My only concern is that after this year it does seem like 2 wins would be a dramatic improvement next year and as a competitor and football diehard it gets hard to think about going into a season with an expectation and hope like that. But I will and hope this is the one and only 0'fer season I ever have to endure.

GMG