The Wheels Are Off The Bus

Got5onIt · October 26, 2008

They had this offense figured out by mid-season last year. I think there are other spreads out there I MIGHT be a fan of, but this one, notsomuch. This is a team that needs to be able to put its identity into a toughness and physicality that just isn't present in this system.
The Navy game that everyone likes to hang their hat on was against the only defense close to as terrible as ours. It's called an anomaly. Everyone pointed to our passing yards last year, and I continually suggested they were primarily put up between the twenties, our 3rd down percentages were generally terrible, and we rarely could sustain drives.
"But look how high we're ranked in passing yards!"
Blech.

I've only seen this offense show effectiveness and pad it's stats in garbage time. This extends from eeh middle of last year.

Monkeypox · October 26, 2008

I refuse to give Deloach a free pass just because what he did for us in the past.

Agreed. Last year our defense was historically bad and I can't count the number of times I heard there was "NO EXCUSE!" for it. Well, our defense is just as bad this year, but there don't seem to be all the same cries about DeLoach. He HAS to take some responsibility in this, sadly. Now, I will assert the same things I did last year. That this "offense" puts the defense in bad positions with its inability to sustain drives. The only thing it does efficiently is go 3 and out. But you can't have the kind of venom for the DC last year and simply give DeLoach a pass.

I've heard the excuse "maybe he's not allowed to do his job..." Well, that's too bad. If that's the situation then I would expect his resignation at the end of the season, bc a defense this bad will only serve to hurt his reputation. That would probably be the best thing for him as long as he's under a coach that ALLEGEDLY doesn't let him do his job. But I'm skeptical about all that.

Regardless, wheels are definitely off of this thing, and, unless there's a miraculous sustainable turnaround, multiple heads must roll.

NT03 · October 26, 2008

The wheels on the bus have fallen off fallen off fallen off .

The wheels on the bus have fallen off ,

All through the town.

The other teams go score or or score or or score or or

The other teams go

score or or score or or score or or

The other teams go score or or score or or score or or

All through the town.

The horn on the bus doesn't work doesn't work doesn't work

All through the town.

The lights on the bus have been turned off turned off turned off

The lights on the bus have been turned off

All through the town.

The driver on the bus says, "I don't know" "i don't know" "I don't know"

The driver on the bus says,

"I don't know"

All through the town.

The wheels on the bus have fallen off fallen off fallen off

The wheels on the bus have fallen off,

All through the town,

All through the town.

Edited October 26, 2008 by NT03

NTPoonKing · October 26, 2008

Gentleman-

I think it's fair to say at this point that if Todd Dodge had 9 lives when he was hired, he is down to maybe 2 left. If he wins at least one game-he will return as coach. There is no doubt in my mind of that.

However-If we get blown out every game the rest of the year and go winless-there needs to be serious discussion about his ability to lead this program. Will that actually happen? I guess we'll see.

In my opinion, Todd Dodge should not be the head football coach at NT on a go forward basis. I have heard too many things from folks close to the program to change my mind. He is in way over his head.

There is enough talent there to win 2-3 games-so draw your own conclussions.....

meangreendork · October 26, 2008

However-If we get blown out every game the rest of the year and go winless-there needs to be serious discussion about his ability to lead this program. Will that actually happen? I guess we'll see.

Yes. I like Dodge and all, but if there are nothing but blowouts this season, Dodge may have to go. It's one thing to pitch morale victories and close games, but not 28+ point deficits. That's inexcusable.

TheTastyGreek · October 26, 2008

Agreed. Last year our defense was historically bad and I can't count the number of times I heard there was "NO EXCUSE!" for it. Well, our defense is just as bad this year, but there don't seem to be all the same cries about DeLoach. He HAS to take some responsibility in this, sadly. Now, I will assert the same things I did last year. That this "offense" puts the defense in bad positions with its inability to sustain drives. The only thing it does efficiently is go 3 and out. But you can't have the kind of venom for the DC last year and simply give DeLoach a pass.
I've heard the excuse "maybe he's not allowed to do his job..." Well, that's too bad. If that's the situation then I would expect his resignation at the end of the season, bc a defense this bad will only serve to hurt his reputation. That would probably be the best thing for him as long as he's under a coach that ALLEGEDLY doesn't let him do his job. But I'm skeptical about all that.
Regardless, wheels are definitely off of this thing, and, unless there's a miraculous sustainable turnaround, multiple heads must roll.

Last year, we returned a defense that lost ONE player with significant minutes (Pruitt) and that was, if I recall, 78th in the nation the year before in Total Defense. We had an NFL prospect on the D-line, perhaps the best all around (not top heavy, I'm not saying any of these guys were Spencer, Kassell, or Hurd... I mean top to bottom overall talent as a group) linebacker corps we've ever had with Mendoza, Mahan, Monroe, Holman, and Dawson, who was moved to DB by Dodge. We had a young, but fast and reasonably experienced secondary, with another NFL caliber prospect in Aaron Weathers.

The coaches last year turned that senior heavy defense with proven talent into the worst defense in NCAA D-1 football.

This year, DeLoach is playing, whether it's his call or not, a LOT of young guys when there are more experienced options available. The past two games have not been fantastic by any means, but I am seeing significant improvement. Again, not an acceptable result in real terms, but marginal growth and improvement. What we're seeing this year is not what we'll see in the future if DeLoach sticks around and is allowed to run things the way he wants. He's proven what he can do, here and elsewhere, and we're damn lucky that he agreed to come back.

DeLoach has taken this defense and coached it up to the point where, in the past few games, it's outperforming what we saw on the field last year. That's no small feat in and of itself. And that's despite the injury to our anchor at DT and his backup. And that's despite the low morale and in-squad conflicts that are killing team unity. I'm not trying to make excuses, I'm just trying to point out that as bad as the scores are, I do think he's making progress. I saw some on defense in Monroe and I saw some on defense last night. There's still a long way to go, and I'm sure DeLoach would be the first one to say so, but it is improvement.

As for whether DeLoach could/should resign if he's not being allowed to run his unit as he sees fit... If you're wanting to see his resignation in the offseason, I wouldn't be surprised if we got it. What happens to us if and when it comes, I shudder to even imagine.

Edited October 26, 2008 by TheTastyGreek

The Fake Lonnie Finch · October 26, 2008

Well, Mendoza or Deloach, the common denominator in both last year and this year is Todd Dodge. Draw your own conclusion.

Monkeypox · October 27, 2008

Last year, we returned a defense that lost ONE player with significant minutes (Pruitt) and that was, if I recall, 78th in the nation the year before in Total Defense. We had an NFL prospect on the D-line, perhaps the best all around (not top heavy, I'm not saying any of these guys were Spencer, Kassell, or Hurd... I mean top to bottom overall talent as a group) linebacker corps we've ever had with Mendoza, Mahan, Monroe, Holman, and Dawson, who was moved to DB by Dodge. We had a young, but fast and reasonably experienced secondary, with another NFL caliber prospect in Aaron Weathers.
The coaches last year turned that senior heavy defense with proven talent into the worst defense in NCAA D-1 football.

If that defense was THAT experienced and talented, a new coach wouldn't come in and be able to turn them into garbage in a year. We have had very few, if any, NFL prospects on this team in a while, particular on defense.

This year, DeLoach is playing, whether it's his call or not, a LOT of young guys when there are more experienced options available. The past two games have not been fantastic by any means, but I am seeing significant improvement. Again, not an acceptable result in real terms, but marginal growth and improvement. What we're seeing this year is not what we'll see in the future if DeLoach sticks around and is allowed to run things the way he wants. He's proven what he can do, here and elsewhere, and we're damn lucky that he agreed to come back.

I heard a lot of "no excuses" last year. I don't consider letting Troy's 2nd string QB complete passes at will with little pressure or coverage to be a vast improvement. What, we now let people coast to 40 points now instead of roll up 60-70?

As for whether DeLoach could/should resign if he's not being allowed to run his unit as he sees fit... If you're wanting to see his resignation in the offseason, I wouldn't be surprised if we got it. What happens to us if and when it comes, I shudder to even imagine.

I have no personal desire to see DeLoach quit. I am of the belief that he is a decent, if overrated in these parts, DC. BUT, if I had a job and was not allowed to do it in a manner to achieve success, and MY professional reputation was hinged on its performance, then I would have an ultimatum for my employers and, barring any changes, they would be seeing my resignation. I think something of that nature, while damaging to our program in the short-term, would FOR SURE spell it out for followers of the program where the issues lie.

The reason for my questioning is that there was a very large contingency who would accept no excuses for last year's defensive performance, based on its complete futility. This year's defense is just as futile, and everyone comes out of the woodwork with statements of support. This defense is nothing to be pleased about.

oldguystudent · October 27, 2008

We have a defense?

OK. I know we have a defense. From what I see, the defense doesn't involve screen passes from the shotgun, so it's completely ignored from the top.

Edited October 27, 2008 by oldguystudent

untgirl04 · October 27, 2008

Agreed. Last year our defense was historically bad and I can't count the number of times I heard there was "NO EXCUSE!" for it. Well, our defense is just as bad this year, but there don't seem to be all the same cries about DeLoach. He HAS to take some responsibility in this, sadly. Now, I will assert the same things I did last year. That this "offense" puts the defense in bad positions with its inability to sustain drives. The only thing it does efficiently is go 3 and out. But you can't have the kind of venom for the DC last year and simply give DeLoach a pass.
I've heard the excuse "maybe he's not allowed to do his job..." Well, that's too bad. If that's the situation then I would expect his resignation at the end of the season, bc a defense this bad will only serve to hurt his reputation. That would probably be the best thing for him as long as he's under a coach that ALLEGEDLY doesn't let him do his job. But I'm skeptical about all that.
Regardless, wheels are definitely off of this thing, and, unless there's a miraculous sustainable turnaround, multiple heads must roll.

There are some significant differences in personnel on the defense between this year and last. Mendoza took the reigns with Seniors Aaron Weathers, Maurice Holman, Blake Burruss, Jeremiah Chapman, Derek Mendoza, Brandon Monroe, and Montey Stevenson. (10 seniors on the defense overall.) All were pretty decent defensive players, with several receiving Sun Belt honors. These young men accounted for 9 of the team's 14 total sacks for the year. This year there are only six total defensive seniors on this team, and I don't believe any of them were consistent starters before this year (of the ones who even play).

The reason Mendoza received the lion's share of criticism last year stemmed from the plain jane defense he ran. It was always man-to-man, 2-deep cover-2 set, with no blitzing....ever. Given the simplicity of the defense, why was it that so many starters who performed well previously had such poor seasons? This year, DeLoach has only 6 seniors on defense, none of whom have started consistently before this season (that I can recall). He's running a much more complex defense (blitz, anyone?), which does take a little time to develop. Especially when you consider that the sophomores, juniors, and seniors this year essentially missed a year of coaching for a college defense. I would also say that there has been improvement on defense. Even you acknowledge that the offense has put them in bad spots, which has led to some of the scoring. However, in the last two home games, they've made three stops on fourth down and done a better job of getting some pressure on the QB. Someone with a bit more time on their hands could probably pull up the rush statistics, but even last night, I saw several tipped balls. We didn't have guys in position to make the pick, but at least they're getting their hands up now.

meaniegreenie · October 27, 2008

If I agree to give TD 4 years (which I am), will he agree to pay back double his salary if he is a total failure (<10 wins)?

For that kind of commitment from him, I'd be willing to give him a 5th year.

gk

Again I preach patience. The wheels are off the bus. You must learn patience, though. The wheels have been off the bus for some time. You have to give a coach at least 4 years. Anything less is just not right.
GMG

TIgreen01 · October 27, 2008

Last year, we returned a defense that lost ONE player with significant minutes (Pruitt) and that was, if I recall, 78th in the nation the year before in Total Defense. We had an NFL prospect on the D-line, perhaps the best all around (not top heavy, I'm not saying any of these guys were Spencer, Kassell, or Hurd... I mean top to bottom overall talent as a group) linebacker corps we've ever had with Mendoza, Mahan, Monroe, Holman, and Dawson, who was moved to DB by Dodge. We had a young, but fast and reasonably experienced secondary, with another NFL caliber prospect in Aaron Weathers.
The coaches last year turned that senior heavy defense with proven talent into the worst defense in NCAA D-1 football.
This year, DeLoach is playing, whether it's his call or not, a LOT of young guys when there are more experienced options available. The past two games have not been fantastic by any means, but I am seeing significant improvement. Again, not an acceptable result in real terms, but marginal growth and improvement. What we're seeing this year is not what we'll see in the future if DeLoach sticks around and is allowed to run things the way he wants. He's proven what he can do, here and elsewhere, and we're damn lucky that he agreed to come back.
DeLoach has taken this defense and coached it up to the point where, in the past few games, it's outperforming what we saw on the field last year. That's no small feat in and of itself. And that's despite the injury to our anchor at DT and his backup. And that's despite the low morale and in-squad conflicts that are killing team unity. I'm not trying to make excuses, I'm just trying to point out that as bad as the scores are, I do think he's making progress. I saw some on defense in Monroe and I saw some on defense last night. There's still a long way to go, and I'm sure DeLoach would be the first one to say so, but it is improvement.
As for whether DeLoach could/should resign if he's not being allowed to run his unit as he sees fit... If you're wanting to see his resignation in the offseason, I wouldn't be surprised if we got it. What happens to us if and when it comes, I shudder to even imagine.

Good post. Anyone questioning DeLoach hasn't been following the team close enough.

I'll go ahead and say that if DeLoach isn't still at NT next season, but Dodge is....I'll be starting up the FireToddDodge.com website myself.

Stan R · October 27, 2008

Good post. Anyone questioning DeLoach hasn't been following the team close enough.
I'll go ahead and say that if DeLoach isn't still at NT next season, but Dodge is....I'll be starting up the FireToddDodge.com website myself.

If RV was smart he would pull a Jerry Jones and agree to pay Gary D as much as TD. :huh:

KRAM1 · October 27, 2008

Coach DeLoach is bringing this defense around...saw some of that Saturday at Fouts...BOTH Coach Dodge and Coach DeLoach will return next season. Bank on it happening. I cannot see Coach DeLoach leaving with "undone business" on the field and Coach Dodge has "work to do" and he will get it done!

I realize the complaining will continue, and rightfully so, but don't give up the ship. It is sailing through U-boat infested waters without much in the way of covering destroyers at the moment. Safer waters are just over the horizon!

yyz28 · October 27, 2008

Coach DeLoach is bringing this defense around...saw some of that Saturday at Fouts...BOTH Coach Dodge and Coach DeLoach will return next season. Bank on it happening. I cannot see Coach DeLoach leaving with "undone business" on the field and Coach Dodge has "work to do" and he will get it done!
I realize the complaining will continue, and rightfully so, but don't give up the ship. It is sailing through U-boat infested waters without much in the way of covering destroyers at the moment. Safer waters are just over the horizon!

If I were RV, I'd sit down with Dodge and have a come to Jesus about what things needed to be changed, and then help him make those changes. I would also FORCE several changes as a condition of allowing him to continue for another year. These would be -

1. All coaches to be evaluated on their progress with the athletes, and the remaining HS coaches should be released and replaced with people who have been at higher levels.

2. Special Teams coach must be replaced with a ST coach who has real D1 experience.

3. Dodge needs to bring in an OC with D1 experience and different offensive ideas. Dodge can have influence over both sides of the ball, as any head coach has, but this is the old "two heads are better than one" approach.

4. Re-Install "toughness practice". There is still grumblings that tackling is not allowed during practice. This shows up on the field - if the defender misses with the shoulder tackle, all other takles are made from behind. There is no practicing of tackling in space that is translating to the field.

With this combination of changes, we'd have a prayer of seeing some real improvement next year. If not, we'll win a game or two over the next couple of seasons.

Green Mean · October 27, 2008

BOTH Coach Dodge and Coach DeLoach will return next season. Bank on it happening.

And that is a travesty if Dodge's job isn't even questioned at the end of the year. Just pathetic.

KRAM1 · October 27, 2008

No one said Dodge should not be evaluated at the end of the season...might get some fairly low grades in some areas if this board is anywhere near correct, but HE WILL and SHOULD be back next season. He will definitely be evaluated at the end of the season as will the entire coaching staff including DeLoach AND including the palers. Some coaches and some players jsut might not return next season...the evaluations will "tell the tale" on that....BUT, Coach Dodge and Coach DeLoach will definitely return...and so they should!

FirefightnRick · October 27, 2008

There are some significant differences in personnel on the defense between this year and last. Mendoza took the reigns with Seniors Aaron Weathers, Maurice Holman, Blake Burruss, Jeremiah Chapman, Derek Mendoza, Brandon Monroe, and Montey Stevenson. (10 seniors on the defense overall.) All were pretty decent defensive players, with several receiving Sun Belt honors. These young men accounted for 9 of the team's 14 total sacks for the year. This year there are only six total defensive seniors on this team, and I don't believe any of them were consistent starters before this year (of the ones who even play).
The reason Mendoza received the lion's share of criticism last year stemmed from the plain jane defense he ran. It was always man-to-man, 2-deep cover-2 set, with no blitzing....ever. Given the simplicity of the defense, why was it that so many starters who performed well previously had such poor seasons? This year, DeLoach has only 6 seniors on defense, none of whom have started consistently before this season (that I can recall). He's running a much more complex defense (blitz, anyone?), which does take a little time to develop. Especially when you consider that the sophomores, juniors, and seniors this year essentially missed a year of coaching for a college defense. I would also say that there has been improvement on defense. Even you acknowledge that the offense has put them in bad spots, which has led to some of the scoring. However, in the last two home games, they've made three stops on fourth down and done a better job of getting some pressure on the QB. Someone with a bit more time on their hands could probably pull up the rush statistics, but even last night, I saw several tipped balls. We didn't have guys in position to make the pick, but at least they're getting their hands up now.

Good post, just wanted to add that we had 17 seniors last year that had starting experience on the defense. Not all started regularly, but had started before when this team needed them to step up from '04 thru '06.

Rick

Edited October 27, 2008 by FirefightnRick

UNT_playmaker · October 27, 2008

If I were RV, I'd sit down with Dodge and have a come to Jesus about what things needed to be changed, and then help him make those changes. I would also FORCE several changes as a condition of allowing him to continue for another year. These would be -
1. All coaches to be evaluated on their progress with the athletes, and the remaining HS coaches should be released and replaced with people who have been at higher levels.
2. Special Teams coach must be replaced with a ST coach who has real D1 experience.
3. Dodge needs to bring in an OC with D1 experience and different offensive ideas. Dodge can have influence over both sides of the ball, as any head coach has, but this is the old "two heads are better than one" approach.
4. Re-Install "toughness practice". There is still grumblings that tackling is not allowed during practice. This shows up on the field - if the defender misses with the shoulder tackle, all other takles are made from behind. There is no practicing of tackling in space that is translating to the field.
With this combination of changes, we'd have a prayer of seeing some real improvement next year. If not, we'll win a game or two over the next couple of seasons.

It is sad that the AD needs to sit down with Coach Dodge to tell what things need to be changed and what areas need improvement.

We will be 0-12 this season, we didnt have a chance in any of these games.