Some Suggestions For Coach Dodge

Green Dozer · October 23, 2008

The other night, when I heard Coach Dodge was going to be on KRLD, I thought of a few questions I would like to ask him, or for him to be asked. First, does he think that Div. 1 defensive coordinators have figured out how to defend his form of the spread? For example, Missouri is suppose to be similar to his, but has been handled its past two games, Tony Franklin was fired before the middle of the season at Auburn, Tech struggled against A&M....etc. I would like to know if he has thought of using a tight end, or at least change to more of what some call the hybrid spread like TX, OU, and Florida have gone to. These schools use the running game a lot more than we do.

Will he replace coaches that leave for whatever reason with college experienced coaches? I know he brought in Deloach, and I have no proof, but I think his hand was forced by Rick V to hire Deloach. I think his high school success, and the accolades that came with it, have made him way over confident in his coaching ability. That is just what I pick up when I have heard him speak and interviewed. I hope that he will check his ego at the door, and not take it personally that another coach on his staff may be more experienced than him as for as coaching on the college level. Certainly from the outside, it does not appear he and Deloach have meshed.

I think that he needs to let Coach Ford actually be the "offensive coordinator", and he actually be a full time head coach. When a head coach tries to keep his coordinator duties, he is not usually as successful as he could be if he delegated those duties to somebody else. I think a head coach needs to be involved in all phases of the game, and perhaps it would better improve our special teams and defense with an objective set of eyes watching practice. With him being so involved in the offense, I cannot imagine the defensive players feeling like that have as good a relationship with him as does the offense.

Just my opinion. All coaches, win or lose, will best my record in football.

KRAM1 · October 23, 2008

Just a question...your topic title indicates to me that you believe Coach Dodge has such a big ego that he would put that ahead of the program. Could you explain a bit for me? I have talked with Coach Dodge several times in person and have heard him speak many times in the public arena, heard him on radio and watched him coach games. It has never struck me that "ego" was a problem. Every athlete and every coach certainly has a "ego"...they would in a ego-centric career field...they HAVE to believe in themselves and what they are doing...but, I would agree that an ego running wild would be a problem.

I simply have not seen this side of Coach Dodge...so, could you explain what you mean a bit? Seems what one might see as an ego "too big" others might see that as "confidence" that the job can and will get done.

To answer the question...I do believe Coach Dodge will make whatever changes he feels are necessary to get the program on a "winning footing" as quickly as possible. And, no, I do not see that ego would be a problem in making whatever changes he feels are required. I see Coach DeLoach as a prime example of that...now, if we can just hold on to Coach DeLoach.

On that topic...with the defense struggling as much as it is...AND IT CERTAINLY IS...why are you not providing suggestions to Coach DeLoach as to what he needs to do and questioning if he will make personnel changes? Where are the folks on this board who call for Dodge's job when it comes to DeLoach? Yes, I know the head coach is responsible for the entire program, but the board has certainly been quiet when it comes to Coach DeLoach and his defense.

Just wondering. And, let me say again...I like Coach DeLoach and I hope he will be back next season....so there!

jimmyjames_99 · October 23, 2008

I think that he needs to let Coach Ford actually be the "offensive coordinator", and he actually be a full time head coach. When a head coach tries to keep his coordinator duties, he is not usually as successful as he could be if he delegated those duties to somebody else. I think a head coach needs to be involved in all phases of the game, and perhaps it would better improve our special teams and defense with an objective set of eyes watching practice. With him being so involved in the offense, I cannot imagine the defensive players feeling like that have as good a relationship with him as does the offense.

Oklahoma State at 7-0 is a good example of a head coach being the OC and letting the defense and DC do their thing.

Dodge made a comment about special teams earlier this year that he was taking a personal interest in the special teams play. Wonder what happened?

Edited October 23, 2008 by jimmyjames_99

FirefightnRick · October 23, 2008

A couple of thoughts.

Missouri utilizes a Tight End. His name is Chase Coffman and he's currently 6th in the nation in receptions with 56, 5 behind Casey Fitzgerald. Coffman is also 14th in the nation in recieving yards with 694 yards. And although they lost their last two games, the first a close one to Ok State, they did averaged over 400 yards in those two games.

And I wouldn't say Tech struggled all that much, at least not on offense, against Texas A&M considering they put up 43 points on the aggies that included 33 first downs and 561 yards. All without a Tight End I might add.

The reason people are not going to question Deloach at this point is that he's only been back for 7 games and he had us ranked nationally in defense the last time he was here. Which took him 3 or 4 years to accomplish.

Rick

Edited October 23, 2008 by FirefightnRick

filmerj · October 23, 2008

NO...

The Fake Lonnie Finch · October 23, 2008

No, probably not. We're talking about a guy who thought he could come to the FBS level of college football with a high school coaching staff. As the losses pile up, my assessment of Dodge wavers between simple arrogance to outright stupidity. Unfortunately, I think he's a little of both. He may be the ultimate example of the "big southern dummy" coach that The Musers talk about from time to time on The Ticket.

But, when you really look at his football career - from his playing days until now - you have to conclude that it couldn't really be any other way. He's never played for a team outside of Texas, he's never coached a team outside of Texas. His exposure, then, to what was happening with defenses and such at this level was limited for years to watching game film of, say, Grapevine and the like. That's why he was "surprised" by the speed of opposing defenses. Pathetic and lame, but unfortunately true.

Most of the desperate Mean Green fans here only wanted to point out his last 80 games of high school coaching and the 79-1 record. We were supposed to ignore his rather average coaching record before he arrived at Southlake. After all, we were told football is football. Blah, blah, blah. Etc., etc.

In the end, the hiring of Todd Dodge - and, in turn, his hiring of a majority high school staff - really looks like nothing more than a fraud. Guys who really know how to do it are building programs from scratch and/or winning in their second years. Dodge just doesn't know how to do it. And, how could he? He never has done it before in his. To expect otherwise was outlandishly absurd - yet, there are still some here aboard his sinking ship.

Real coaches are out there. Please, Ricky V...if we go 0-12, go get us a real college football coach. Grad assistants at major universities have watched more FBS-level game film in their careers than Dodge has. Please, do something, Ricky V.

(Someone sneak underneath RV's bed at night and just keep saying Jeff Bower, Jeff Bower, Jeff Bower....)

Edited October 23, 2008 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

greenminer · October 23, 2008

Is Bower taking time off? I just presumed he just landed elsewhere...

The Fake Lonnie Finch · October 23, 2008

Is Bower taking time off? I just presumed he just landed elsewhere...

No. He's taking time off. Some recent articles about him:

http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/apps/pb...PORTS/810060306

http://www.sportsmemo.com/handicappers/ted...f2b26a53da170d2

http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/article...ION03/810230347

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/sto...mp;sportCat=ncf (About halfway down...just above the blurb on UNT calling us "The Serene Green")

Edited October 23, 2008 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

The Fake Lonnie Finch · October 23, 2008

Articles about Bower resigning. Like the his quote about saying he still has alot of fight left in him:

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2007/...-contentiously/

http://media.www.studentprintz.com/media/s...n-3115930.shtml

Other Bower stuff:

http://goldeneaglesusm.homestead.com/Bower.html

http://coachbower.com/jeffbower-bio.php

One of the articles talked about his buyout being about $400k. Then, USM would be paying him $125k in 2008 and 2009. So, he's probably playing alot of golf.

But, consider this, even if we hired him at the same base as Todd Dodge, he'd be making more than the $125k Southern Miss is currently paying him to sit at home. He was the lowest paid coach in the C-USA, but the most successful. The man knew what to do with limited resources - coach winning football.

NT80 · October 23, 2008

Articles about Bower resigning. Like the his quote about saying he still has alot of fight left in him:
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2007/...-contentiously/
http://media.www.studentprintz.com/media/s...n-3115930.shtml
Other Bower stuff:
http://goldeneaglesusm.homestead.com/Bower.html
http://coachbower.com/jeffbower-bio.php
One of the articles talked about his buyout being about $400k. Then, USM would be paying him $125k in 2008 and 2009. So, he's probably playing alot of golf.
But, consider this, even if we hired him at the same base as Todd Dodge, he'd be making more than the $125k Southern Miss is currently paying him to sit at home. He was the lowest paid coach in the C-USA, but the most successful. The man knew what to do with limited resources - coach winning football.

OK, let's say Dodge ends 0-12 and RV reassigns him to PR fundraiser and hires Bower. And I like Coach Bower. But does he get 2-3 years of any-record-goes too before we question his abilities? I am also impatient with regards to NT football winning some games, but I realistically have to give any new hire some time to get his players and system established, or do I? Another two years for Dodge to get it rolling or start over and allow a new coach those same two years? Tough call.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · October 23, 2008

It's not that tough. We already know what Bower can do it. We have no idea what Dodge will do, if anything. But, I think we have seen the shadow of what will be coming: Nineteen games into this "experiment" and we've got one win against a full-fledged FBS school - and that was the result of two defensive touchdowns...the one rare game where the defense showed up the past two years.

Edited October 23, 2008 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

Green Mean · October 23, 2008

Most of the desperate Mean Green fans here only wanted to point out his last 80 games of high school coaching and the 79-1 record. We were supposed to ignore his rather average coaching record before he arrived at Southlake. After all, we were told football is football. Blah, blah, blah. Etc., etc.

Southlake Carroll was a great high school program before and is still a great high school program right now. As long as Carroll is the only high school in Southlake, they will always be one of the best in the state. Todd Dodge did a heck of a job there but my god everybody does a good job there. He has been an average at best coach everywhere he has been. I just hope people stop drinking the Todd Dodge kool aid because it is getting very tiring and old.

I like Jeff Bower but I think this is the one time we need to bite the bullet and get someone up and coming from a top BCS program. Maybe somebody like Major Applewhite or something like that. It doesn't have to be a guy from this region but just somebody who has college experience and is considered a very up and coming coach. We may have to pay him a little more than what DD and TD got but if we truly want to elevate our program we will have to do it in all ends including coaching.

UNT Mean Green · October 23, 2008

Southlake Carroll was a great high school program before and is still a great high school program right now. As long as Carroll is the only high school in Southlake, they will always be one of the best in the state. Todd Dodge did a heck of a job there but my god everybody does a good job there. He has been an average at best coach everywhere he has been. I just hope people stop drinking the Todd Dodge kool aid because it is getting very tiring and old.
I like Jeff Bower but I think this is the one time we need to bite the bullet and get someone up and coming from a top BCS program. Maybe somebody like Major Applewhite or something like that. It doesn't have to be a guy from this region but just somebody who has college experience and is considered a very up and coming coach. We may have to pay him a little more than what DD and TD got but if we truly want to elevate our program we will have to do it in all ends including coaching.

Being born and raised in Southlake as I was, you are correct. Carroll has always bad a good program. The statement that Dodge did an outstanding job there is true, and I don't think that will be done in 5A football again. The statement that everybody does a good job there is however not true. Check out Tom Rapp. He was between Ledbetter and Dodge and lost a whole lot of football games. Everyone wants to talk about all of this talent Dodge had at SLC. Well 20 something players to Division 1 schools in 6 years is not bad, but you have to remember he was playing the Allen's, South Grand Prairie's, Euless Trinity's that have 5-10 D1's every season. There was a difference, and it was coaching and more importantly someone who could lead that program the right way. We've even seen it falter somewhat since Dodge left, as Carroll has lost 3 games in 1.5 seasons, which is more than Dodge lost since moving to 5A.

Green Dozer · October 23, 2008

Southlake Carroll was a great high school program before and is still a great high school program right now. As long as Carroll is the only high school in Southlake, they will always be one of the best in the state. Todd Dodge did a heck of a job there but my god everybody does a good job there. He has been an average at best coach everywhere he has been. I just hope people stop drinking the Todd Dodge kool aid because it is getting very tiring and old.
I like Jeff Bower but I think this is the one time we need to bite the bullet and get someone up and coming from a top BCS program. Maybe somebody like Major Applewhite or something like that. It doesn't have to be a guy from this region but just somebody who has college experience and is considered a very up and coming coach. We may have to pay him a little more than what DD and TD got but if we truly want to elevate our program we will have to do it in all ends including coaching.

Green Mean, the Ty Sports Blog would have a field day with Major Applewhite, don't you think? :lol: :lol:

Smitty · October 23, 2008

OK, let's say Dodge ends 0-12 and RV reassigns him to PR fundraiser and hires Bower. And I like Coach Bower. But does he get 2-3 years of any-record-goes too before we question his abilities? I am also impatient with regards to NT football winning some games, but I realistically have to give any new hire some time to get his players and system established, or do I? Another two years for Dodge to get it rolling or start over and allow a new coach those same two years? Tough call.

As hard as the prospect of an 0-12 season is to take, it's not 0-12 that makes me consider if a change is needed. It's the the blow-out nature of every game. As I posted previously, the question of a coaching change at this point seems unthinkable, but it's no more unthinkable than the idea of getting blown out of every single game.

No, I didn't expect miracles. I didn't expect a championship or a win over K-State or LSU. But I expected UNT to be competitive this year and at least have a chance of winning against Rice or FIU or ULL. To not be at all competitive in Sun Belt games is hard to believe. If we were a high school program, we'd be the team that everyone wants to schedule for homecoming.

No one wants Todd Dodge to succeed more than me, and I will be on hand to support this team on every play. Maybe we'll start to see progress and see a team that is competitive. For the players' sake, I hope so. For anyone who still has faith in Dodge, good for you. But at this point, some of us need proof that Dodge belongs at this level.

UNTBill · October 23, 2008

As hard as the prospect of an 0-12 season is to take, it's not 0-12 that makes me consider if a change is needed. It's the the blow-out nature of every game. As I posted previously, the question of a coaching change at this point seems unthinkable, but it's no more unthinkable than the idea of getting blown out of every single game.
No, I didn't expect miracles. I didn't expect a championship or a win over K-State or LSU. But I expected UNT to be competitive this year and at least have a chance of winning against Rice or FIU or ULL. To not be at all competitive in Sun Belt games is hard to believe. If we were a high school program, we'd be the team that everyone wants to schedule for homecoming.
No one wants Todd Dodge to succeed more than me, and I will be on hand to support this team on every play. Maybe we'll start to see progress and see a team that is competitive. For the players' sake, I hope so. For anyone who still has faith in Dodge, good for you. But at this point, some of us need proof that Dodge belongs at this level.

I was a big fan of hiring Todd Dodge and I really hope he turns things around. I would not have required proof of his ability to coach at the college level until I saw him call running plays for short yardage (3rd down and 2 feet to go, 4th down 1 yard to go) out of the shotgun. Does he even have

a play in the book with the Qb under center. With that said, I think I am becoming one of those people that could now use a little proof.

GoMeanGreen1999 · October 23, 2008

yet, there are still some here aboard his sinking ship.

Many, many are still aboard.

I was a big fan of hiring Todd Dodge and I really hope he turns things around. I would not have required proof of his ability to coach at the college level until I saw him call running plays for short yardage (3rd down and 2 feet to go, 4th down 1 yard to go) out of the shotgun. Does he even have
a play in the book with the Qb under center. With that said, I think I am becoming one of those people that could now use a little proof.

No, no play with QB under center currently exists in the playbook.

MeanGreenHoops · October 23, 2008

No, probably not. We're talking about a guy who thought he could come to the FBS level of college football with a high school coaching staff. As the losses pile up, my assessment of Dodge wavers between simple arrogance to outright stupidity. Unfortunately, I think he's a little of both. He may be the ultimate example of the "big southern dummy" coach that The Musers talk about from time to time on The Ticket.
But, when you really look at his football career - from his playing days until now - you have to conclude that it couldn't really be any other way. He's never played for a team outside of Texas, he's never coached a team outside of Texas. His exposure, then, to what was happening with defenses and such at this level was limited for years to watching game film of, say, Grapevine and the like. That's why he was "surprised" by the speed of opposing defenses. Pathetic and lame, but unfortunately true.
Most of the desperate Mean Green fans here only wanted to point out his last 80 games of high school coaching and the 79-1 record. We were supposed to ignore his rather average coaching record before he arrived at Southlake. After all, we were told football is football. Blah, blah, blah. Etc., etc.
In the end, the hiring of Todd Dodge - and, in turn, his hiring of a majority high school staff - really looks like nothing more than a fraud. Guys who really know how to do it are building programs from scratch and/or winning in their second years. Dodge just doesn't know how to do it. And, how could he? He never has done it before in his. To expect otherwise was outlandishly absurd - yet, there are still some here aboard his sinking ship.
Real coaches are out there. Please, Ricky V...if we go 0-12, go get us a real college football coach. Grad assistants at major universities have watched more FBS-level game film in their careers than Dodge has. Please, do something, Ricky V.
(Someone sneak underneath RV's bed at night and just keep saying Jeff Bower, Jeff Bower, Jeff Bower....)

Great points FLF, but I think the Dodge hiring has done what it was designed to do. It was simply a publicity stunt to get people interested in NT football. And it has worked with flying colors. More donors, more season tickets, students approving fees to build a stadium, bigger crowds to see the worst team in IA football than when we were getting into the NO Bowl. If in a year or two, we still are this terrible, the move to get a new coach will be made. And that coach will have a much stronger fanbase, facilities, a stadium etc. to build on. So, let's assume that it's not going to get any better, the next coach choice will be huge, because they will open the stadium and if that coach is bad for 4 years people will lose interest. But even if that happens, there is now a fan base and facilities to work with, somthing that would have been unlikely without the Dodge hiring.

houstonmeangreen · October 23, 2008

As hard as the prospect of an 0-12 season is to take, it's not 0-12 that makes me consider if a change is needed. It's the the blow-out nature of every game. As I posted previously, the question of a coaching change at this point seems unthinkable, but it's no more unthinkable than the idea of getting blown out of every single game.
No, I didn't expect miracles. I didn't expect a championship or a win over K-State or LSU. But I expected UNT to be competitive this year and at least have a chance of winning against Rice or FIU or ULL. To not be at all competitive in Sun Belt games is hard to believe. If we were a high school program, we'd be the team that everyone wants to schedule for homecoming.
No one wants Todd Dodge to succeed more than me, and I will be on hand to support this team on every play. Maybe we'll start to see progress and see a team that is competitive. For the players' sake, I hope so. For anyone who still has faith in Dodge, good for you. But at this point, some of us need proof that Dodge belongs at this level.

I couldn't agree more than with Smitty's post....getting blown out in every game is the point...with no change in the trend in sight....maybe time for a change if 0-12 this season...just one more season where UNT is humiliated on the field and in the press.

ntexeagle · October 24, 2008

Please tell me. What coach would want to come to a school that would give him less than two years to turn a program that was in shambles around?

This teams primary problem is that the have forgotten how to win. When the start to play well they start looking over thedir shoulders and waiting for someone to make a mistake. (The fans in the stands are doing the same thing.)

When they finally win the that first game, they will put a string together.

Green Dozer · October 24, 2008

Great points FLF, but I think the Dodge hiring has done what it was designed to do. It was simply a publicity stunt to get people interested in NT football. And it has worked with flying colors. More donors, more season tickets, students approving fees to build a stadium, bigger crowds to see the worst team in IA football than when we were getting into the NO Bowl. If in a year or two, we still are this terrible, the move to get a new coach will be made. And that coach will have a much stronger fanbase, facilities, a stadium etc. to build on. So, let's assume that it's not going to get any better, the next coach choice will be huge, because they will open the stadium and if that coach is bad for 4 years people will lose interest. But even if that happens, there is now a fan base and facilities to work with, somthing that would have been unlikely without the Dodge hiring.

I don't think RV or anybody hired Dodge for the reasons you list at the expense of losing games, and I do not think you do either. His hiring was designed to do what you said, and though not go undefeated up to now, at least win a few game and be competitive. You do have a good perspective on the present situation and the future. We did get a lot of bang for our buck with his hiring. Only Harbaugh, who is now at Stanford, or Jimbo Fisher would have created as much interest as Dodge.

TIgreen01 · October 24, 2008

Great points FLF, but I think the Dodge hiring has done what it was designed to do. It was simply a publicity stunt to get people interested in NT football. And it has worked with flying colors. More donors, more season tickets, students approving fees to build a stadium, bigger crowds to see the worst team in IA football than when we were getting into the NO Bowl. If in a year or two, we still are this terrible, the move to get a new coach will be made. And that coach will have a much stronger fanbase, facilities, a stadium etc. to build on. So, let's assume that it's not going to get any better, the next coach choice will be huge, because they will open the stadium and if that coach is bad for 4 years people will lose interest. But even if that happens, there is now a fan base and facilities to work with, somthing that would have been unlikely without the Dodge hiring.

The Todd Dodge to Vic Trilli resemblance is starting to get really, really scary. Vic Trilli was probably the single greatest recruiter (in any sport) that this school has seen since the 60's, at least. His teams, though, were some of the most non-competitive teams that I've ever watched. The talent on the team that mostly left and transferred to Big 12 schools after Trilli was fired was truly ridiculous....and proof of how good those guys really were was obvious when they quickly became studs on good teams in that conference. We had a PG go to Tech and lead the Big 12 in points per game the NEXT SEASON, a forward leave for Texas (during their Final 4 run) and in 1 season became their 6th man and a key player, another F/C go to OSU (also when they were VERY good) that started and was a stud for them too....seems like there were at least a couple others. Either way, the point is that when Trilli first got here he brought a buzz with him too and then brought in top 20 recruiting classes....people got fired up, supposedly did things the right way, crowds improved some initially, but 3-4 years later we couldn't draw 500 people to the games b/c we were SO NON-COMPETITIVE on the court. It wasn't so much the losses that cost Trilli his job, but HOW we lost and how we looked as a team, and most importantly---the complete lack of attendance at home games.

The point is, regardless of how good the players are or how well a coach sells the school and presents himself in public (Trilli was a flat out unbelievable speaker), the coaching staff is going to have to get the team to play together. UNT is not a school that can sustain multiple winless (or worse, complete seasons of getting BLOWN OUT of every game) seasons and retain that fanbase increase. I really think that the AD is going to have to be watching the season ticket numbers for next year and if they drop significantly, Dodge will be evaluated at least by mid-season next year. He'll remain our coach, no matter the record, as long as the ticket sales are still good.

Edited October 24, 2008 by TIgreen01

Got5onIt · October 24, 2008

No, probably not. We're talking about a guy who thought he could come to the FBS level of college football with a high school coaching staff. As the losses pile up, my assessment of Dodge wavers between simple arrogance to outright stupidity. Unfortunately, I think he's a little of both. He may be the ultimate example of the "big southern dummy" coach that The Musers talk about from time to time on The Ticket.
But, when you really look at his football career - from his playing days until now - you have to conclude that it couldn't really be any other way. He's never played for a team outside of Texas, he's never coached a team outside of Texas. His exposure, then, to what was happening with defenses and such at this level was limited for years to watching game film of, say, Grapevine and the like. That's why he was "surprised" by the speed of opposing defenses. Pathetic and lame, but unfortunately true.
Most of the desperate Mean Green fans here only wanted to point out his last 80 games of high school coaching and the 79-1 record. We were supposed to ignore his rather average coaching record before he arrived at Southlake. After all, we were told football is football. Blah, blah, blah. Etc., etc.
In the end, the hiring of Todd Dodge - and, in turn, his hiring of a majority high school staff - really looks like nothing more than a fraud. Guys who really know how to do it are building programs from scratch and/or winning in their second years. Dodge just doesn't know how to do it. And, how could he? He never has done it before in his. To expect otherwise was outlandishly absurd - yet, there are still some here aboard his sinking ship.
Real coaches are out there. Please, Ricky V...if we go 0-12, go get us a real college football coach. Grad assistants at major universities have watched more FBS-level game film in their careers than Dodge has. Please, do something, Ricky V.
(Someone sneak underneath RV's bed at night and just keep saying Jeff Bower, Jeff Bower, Jeff Bower....)

LOL!!

NT03 · October 26, 2009

A year later and it feels like we are still talking about the exact samething

eulessismore · October 26, 2009

A year later and it feels like we are still talking about the exact samething

Well, I have started questioning the "it's the assistants" theory, or is it "make a few more changes in the assistant coaches, reshuffle them", whatever, after I read about him taking the blame for the Shotgun run on the 4th and 1 in the first half. I can see it being a head coaching decision on whether to go for it, but shouldn't he leave the call on the play (at that point anyway) to the oc? I am now starting to fear that Dodge has had an increasing tendency to micromanage. Maybe it's a reaction to stress, but I think he has enough things to manage (when to call time outs, etc), without calling such plays as that.