It Is Time To Begin The Next Coach Discussion

Got5onIt · October 14, 2008

Troy's old head coach is available. He would come to North Texas and he's got a NO Bowl win under his belt.

Tramp96 · October 14, 2008

How about a guarantee that our head coach have some college head coach skins on the wall? I think that is something within our control.
2 years is a real chance. 1 offseason was good enough for Rice's wishbone-spread changeover.
After 16 games, is it too much to ask for signs of being competitive? I.e., holding a Belt opponent to under 50, or being competitive past the half?
This argument is old and will only end in another dead end. Dodge apologists see things that cannot be quantified. "Realists" (I guess I am under that category?) are being unrealistic.
Good Lord I can't wait for some wins!

I don't think I could be called a "Dodge apologist". I'm a college football fan, an alum of a D-1 school in a different conference altogether (along with being a UNT alum), and an amateur history buff on the game. That makes me no or more less qualified than anyone else, but I do think that it gives me more of an impartial view of things than some here.

Second season turnarounds are the exception rather than the rule. Yes, maybe UNT could be playing better right now than they are, but some of you have very, very short memories. Just this summer wasn't everyone bemoaning the fact that the team took so many hits at defense, particularly the d-line, that everyone here was wondering how on earth we would be able to survive the season with the defensive personnel coming (or rather not coming) back in the fall? And now everyone acts surprised that the defense can't stop anyone? How can you be surprised? Everyone this summer saw this coming.

Add to it that by hiring Dodge you have changed from a ground attack, control the ball, eat the clock offense to a quick strike, high risk-high reward, bound to put your defense back out their quicker offense. It's a perfect storm for the season UNT is having, and it should not be a surprise to anyone here who follows this team that it has played out the way it has. But everyone wanted a more exciting, higher scoring offense when the decision to hire Dodge was made...well...this is the side-effect to that type of offense. It can lead to major blowouts. Look at Texas Tech and some of the blowouts they've been a victim to over the past few years under Leach. That style of offense can lead to that.

Lastly, some of you are saying that Dodge has had two classes, which should be more than enough. I beg to differ. In reality, he's only really had one...2008. That was the only signing day where he benefited from a full recruiting season. So his first, full, class are TRUE FRESHMEN. How can anyone with any logical sense want to fire a coach after 1.5 seasons and only one real recruiting class?

You just have to be patient. Give the man time to build a program, not just try to magically resurrect one. There is a difference.

Got5onIt · October 14, 2008

I don't think I could be called a "Dodge apologist". I'm a college football fan, an alum of a D-1 school in a different conference altogether (along with being a UNT alum), and an amateur history buff on the game. That makes me no or more less qualified than anyone else, but I do think that it gives me more of an impartial view of things than some here.
Second season turnarounds are the exception rather than the rule. Yes, maybe UNT could be playing better right now than they are, but some of you have very, very short memories. Just this summer wasn't everyone bemoaning the fact that the team took so many hits at defense, particularly the d-line, that everyone here was wondering how on earth we would be able to survive the season with the defensive personnel coming (or rather not coming) back in the fall? And now everyone acts surprised that the defense can't stop anyone? How can you be surprised? Everyone this summer saw this coming.
Add to it that by hiring Dodge you have changed from a ground attack, control the ball, eat the clock offense to a quick strike, high risk-high reward, bound to put your defense back out their quicker offense. It's a perfect storm for the season UNT is having, and it should not be a surprise to anyone here who follows this team that it has played out the way it has. But everyone wanted a more exciting, higher scoring offense when the decision to hire Dodge was made...well...this is the side-effect to that type of offense. It can lead to major blowouts. Look at Texas Tech and some of the blowouts they've been a victim to over the past few years under Leach. That style of offense can lead to that.
Lastly, some of you are saying that Dodge has had two classes, which should be more than enough. I beg to differ. In reality, he's only really had one...2008. That was the only signing day where he benefited from a full recruiting season. So his first, full, class are TRUE FRESHMEN. How can anyone with any logical sense want to fire a coach after 1.5 seasons and only one real recruiting class?
You just have to be patient. Give the man time to build a program, not just try to magically resurrect one. There is a difference.

You definitely sound like a Dodge apologist. Better yet, we should just tag you with a famous Randy Galloway line, you're a L&A (Lover & Apologist). :lol:

Anyway, you speak with so much confidence. What has he done, other than take over a SLC school that was always successful, to make you believe this will happen. I was not for the Dodge hire from the beginning. And many of the people who are upset are in my same position. Do you really expect us to change tune after seeing the worst performances by NT football the last 2 seasons? There are many FCS(D1AA) coaches who are willing to make the jump to a legitimate FBS program. NOrth Texas is not the gutter of D1 football yet, but is slowly going that way.

Tramp96 · October 14, 2008

Ok, would it help if I said I don't care what the name of the coach is in the situation, or the name of the school? I have no vested interested in Todd Dodge. I don't know the man, I was not a fan of his prior to his being named the coach at UNT, and I really have no personal interest in his future employment.

My argument would be the same no matter who the coach in the head position is. You simply don't give up on a coach 1.5 seasons into the job, with only one recruiting class, who has changed the offensive philosophy as drastically as it was changed here. You simply don't do it. You have to give a coach, ANY COACH, more time than that. Not for his sake, BUT FOR THE PROGRAM'S SAKE. You do not want a reputation of being so impatient that you can't stick it out with a new coach longer than two seasons.

KRAM1 · October 14, 2008

SAD state of affairs when some of the "so called" faithful have "given up" so early and so easily on Coach Dodge. While I agree 100% that the performance has been way less than desired on the field so far this season, I am in no way ready to even think about changing head coaches! I agree with many of the comments on this subject...both pro and con...as there seems to me to be some "truth" in all of them. But, for gosh sakes, give the staff and head coach some time to get this thing turned around before "giving up". This is the time to show your support...not saying you should agree with Coach Dodge or sing his praises, just saying that the Mean Green Nation needs to rally around this team while it does go through a really tough time. Just how do you think the players feel about being ranked as the "worse" college team in D-I right now? Do you think THEY Believe the rankings? I don't.

Yes, Coach Dodge needs to step up and admit that there are some things he needs to figure out about the college game, and he needs to look at "what and how" things need to be changed...and, my guess, he might need to listen to his coaches a bit more....BUT, this team and this coaching staff is OUR team and our staff. And, the head coach needs to be given the time (3-4 years) to get HIS program, his players and his coaches in place and working like a D-I program. I think that will get done...but...time, folks, time.

Seems to me the "I got to have it now" folks are beginning to sing the surrender song way too early. Too bad and so very sad. But, you pay your two cents, you get to say what you want. I have no problem with that. Just seems sad to me!

See you at Fouts for the next game! GO MEAN GREEN.......

GREEN COUG · October 14, 2008

Yes, Coach Dodge needs to step up and admit that there are some things he needs to figure out about the college game

Maybe this could help?

How To Coach College Football

Got5onIt · October 14, 2008

Ok, would it help if I said I don't care what the name of the coach is in the situation, or the name of the school? I have no vested interested in Todd Dodge. I don't know the man, I was not a fan of his prior to his being named the coach at UNT, and I really have no personal interest in his future employment.
My argument would be the same no matter who the coach in the head position is. You simply don't give up on a coach 1.5 seasons into the job, with only one recruiting class, who has changed the offensive philosophy as drastically as it was changed here. You simply don't do it. You have to give a coach, ANY COACH, more time than that. Not for his sake, BUT FOR THE PROGRAM'S SAKE. You do not want a reputation of being so impatient that you can't stick it out with a new coach longer than two seasons.

I completely understand what you're saying.

No matter how much we love him or hate him, Dodge is going to get a 3rd year. One thing I refuse to believe, there would be no coaches willing to come to North Texas if Dodge were let go. The line would be out the door. We are a FBS program in the state of Texas, who wouldn't want to come here?

Tramp96 · October 14, 2008

I completely understand what you're saying.
No matter how much we love him or hate him, Dodge is going to get a 3rd year. One thing I refuse to believe, there would be no coaches willing to come to North Texas if Dodge were let go. The line would be out the door. We are a FBS program in the state of Texas, who wouldn't want to come here?

I just would rather have the largest pool of candidates possible to draw from the next time we have to fill that post, and a reputation of "2 and done" would hurt our ability to recruit the best possible candidates out there. Stadium/Sun belt/Salary are going against us already...we don't need to add another strike to that list.

Edited October 14, 2008 by Tramp96

UNTLifer · October 14, 2008

+1 GG Bass.
While many of you have heard this or that, or have inside information-I have heard almost the entire coaching staff appears to be in over its head. There is disgust among former players and strong supporters of the program. And while the talent level is not very high-there is certainly enough talent there to win 2-3 ballgames.
Let there be no doubt-Coach Dodge will have to make several more coaching changes after the season. It is also imperative NT wins at least one game this year-for many reasons. At this point, I have my doubts. In addition-has anyone thought of the recruiting consequences for this year? Not a pretty sight.
NT needs to HEAVILY recruit JUCO defensive players as well as OLineman. Dodge needs to be contacting them now.

While I respect your opinion, I would argue a few of your points.

"I have heard the entire coaching staff appears to be in over its head."

Have to disagree. Leftwich and Deloach have been around the college game for a long time and have been very successful. Also, Carlton Buckels, Shelton Gandy and Chuck Peterson have coached the collegiate game at various levels. It appears that Drake is struggling mightly with Special Teams and Defensive Line.

The coaches have decided to play many freshmen, RS freshmen and sophmores, for whatever reason, and these young men are learning the game.

And while the talent level is not very high-there is certainly enough talent there to win 2-3 ballgames.

I believe the talent is there as noted by the last two recruiting classes. Dodge has chosen to player many of the young men from these classes and all would agree that these were two of the more highly rated classes to sign with North Texas in some time. The game needs to "slow down" for them and it will with experience. Announcers during the UT/OU game mentioned that this has finally occurred for Colt McCoy this year, his Jr. season, at look at his performance.

NT needs to HEAVILY recruit JUCO defensive players as well as OLineman. Dodge needs to be contacting them now.

He is. And the recruiting consequences after this week could be, sign with us, get a chance to compete immediately for playing time, and finish your career in a new stadium.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · October 14, 2008

It's not Troy's former head coach, but offensive coordinator who is available.

I like this thread, but people need to jump on and name names. Off the top on my head I like Chris Ball, Steve Logan, Ruffin McNeill, Jeff Bower, Clint Bowen, Sonny Dykes and Tim Billings. Most are defensive guys.

Steve Logan built the East Carolina program, but they tossed him aside the same way USM did Bower. Logan is a Tulsa grad with family still there (if I'm correct from my law school days, his sister owns a health food store there), so he's familiar with the region and would have family nearby. He's currently the offensive coordinator of Boston College: http://bceagles.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/m...an_steve00.html

Jeff Bower...well, he's Jeff Bower. He built Southern Miss, then was booted by the idiots who run their athletic department: http://coachbower.com/

Ruffin McNeill is the Texas Tech DC and has 23 years experience on the college sideline, also coaches the LBs: http://texastech.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/...l_ruffin00.html

Tim Billings is the secondary coach at Wake Forest. He was DC at Marshall when they went undefeated a few years back. Has also been special teams coach. Was a head coach for a FCS team. Native Texan, filled his SEMO roster with tons of out-of-state guys: http://wakeforestsports.cstv.com/sports/m-...ings_tim00.html

Chris Ball is the defensive coordinator at Washington State. He's a secondary guy, and young at 44. A guy who could make his mark at a place like UNT: http://wsucougars.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl.../010408aaa.html

Sonny Dykes the offensive coordinator and QB coach at Arizona. His dad is former Texas Tech coach Spike Dykes. Tons of ties all around Texas. Also runs a spread offense, so not everything on offense would have to change dramatically: http://www.arizonaathletics.com/sports/m-f...es_sonny00.html

Clint Bowen is the defensive coordinator at Kansas. It goes without syaing that he's been part of the resurrection of the Jayhawk program. He already recruits Texas. In fact, when you go through their coaching profiles, you see that Mangino has six assistants with Texas recruiting responsibilites. Like Ball, this would be a good place for Bowen to rebuild as he builds his career:

http://kuathletics.cstv.com/sports/m-footb...en_clint00.html

The Fake Lonnie Finch · October 14, 2008

Oh, yeah...and the guy who is building Abilene Christian into a powerhouse, Chris Thomsen. Thomsen is a former TCU and ACU football and baseball player. He's got ACU ripping the Division II world to shreds: http://www.acusports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?...p;Q_SEASON=2008

Edited October 14, 2008 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

UNTLifer · October 14, 2008

Why not promote Deloach if you are after a defensive guy?

And I'm in the camp that says give Dodge a year or two more.

Edited October 14, 2008 by UNTLifer

The Fake Lonnie Finch · October 14, 2008

My assumption is that he's already on RV's radar. Because our athletic director wastes his time on the board, I figure I'd throw some names out there. I'm sure he knows them, or at least know of them...or, at least I hope he does.... :unsure:

Edited October 14, 2008 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

OldTimer · October 14, 2008

While I respect your opinion, I would argue a few of your points.
Edited to leave
NT needs to HEAVILY recruit JUCO defensive players as well as OLineman. Dodge needs to be contacting them now.
He is. And the recruiting consequences after this week could be, sign with us, get a chance to compete immediately for playing time, and finish your career in a new stadium.

I don't know if you have access to the football forumn but those that do know the following information:

NT has made outstanding offers to 5 JC Defensive Tackles 4 of which are rated 3 * by Rivals and another JC DT rated 3* that has indicated an interest in NT. I have listed another 8 other offers also heavy with DL/DE and others. ...obviously we have only ID'd 30 of NT's offers at this time.

I have listed 10 other heavily listed with DT, DE, LB...both JC and HS that have expressed interest in NT. I have not been able to determine at this time whether offers have been extended but I would love to get any of them at NT.

If you consider all of the prospects there would be over 80 that we are aware of. I should mention that NT does not publize their offers...we have to find them out after they after they are known publically. There is no doubt in my mind we have many more offers out there that we are not aware of.

I BELIEVE OUR COACHES ARE AWARE OF WHERE OUR NEEDS ARE AND ARE WORKING THEIR TAILS OFF RECRUITING. I do believe the passing of the student fee for athletics and the opportunity to play more early will still result in quality recruits.

I realize some of the gmg posters already have this info...just thought those who do not have access to the football forum would appreciate this information.

shaft · October 16, 2008

Let's see if we can take this thread a different direction. For those saying it is too early to begin the next coach discussion what do you propose as fair standard? Is it simply giving the system time to work (3 to 4 years) or can we say there are limits to our patience (0-12 is unacceptable).

akriesman · October 16, 2008

For me, it is 4 years. I am willing to take a risk and rely on the potential upside that TD brings. He is a household name in Texas.

I just hope we can get thru these excruciatingly tough times without a team implosion.

One more thing.....

Right now, Fitz is the only real weapon that we seem to have. So, the team had better improve before the season is over, because they won't be able to rely on Fitz next season.

Edited October 16, 2008 by akriesman

UNT_playmaker · October 16, 2008

Jeff Bower from Southern Miss sounds good as well as the defensive coordinator from Kansas....

Deloach is also a good choice....

Rv might give Dodge another year, its a possibility he gets fired or stays on another year.

shaft · October 23, 2008

2-10.

0-7, with another loss on the way. Why aren't we talking about the next coach?

mad dog · October 23, 2008

Bower is getting serious looks from Memphis, whose coach might not last the season. There's also rumors swirling about UAB having interest. I've also heard that South Alabama is looking for a coach to get their football program up and running, and Bower's name has come up in discussions.

I would caution that Bower's offensive and defensive philosophy is a lot like Coach Dickey's was. He's a 60-40 run guy, and really favors the power I game. He won't shy away from throwing though, if the situation warrants it; he was Brett Favre's QB coach at Southern Miss. If you're into defense, then Bower's your guy. He'll recruit a lot of juco guys, and does not usually go after the star recruit. Instead, he prefers to develop a 2 or 3 star guy who fits his philosophy. He's a character guy and disciplinarian, not hesitating to give guys the boot if they ever felt like they were bigger than the team. At the time he was fired, he was the 3rd longest tenured coach in Division 1-A football, behind only Paterno and Bowden.

Green Dozer · October 23, 2008

Why not promote Deloach if you are after a defensive guy?
And I'm in the camp that says give Dodge a year or two more.

Lifer, I am in agreement with you on giving Dodge a year or two more. I think Deloach is an excellent coach, but don't you think we would be bringing back the Dickey system? I don't mean offense/on the field philosophy, just the overall management of the program.

MeanGreen61 · October 23, 2008

I've also heard that South Alabama is looking for a coach to get their football program up and running, and Bower's name has come up in discussions.

Bower was discussed, but South Alabama hired a coach several months ago.

Green Dozer · October 23, 2008

$$$$.....where will they come from? How are you going to buy this coach out, hire the next one at a decent salary, and start the capital campaign? Something would have to give, dollars are getting scarce for everybody. Sounds negative, but there are only so many to go around. Bower, or somebody like him, is going to want more than Dodge. Also, did not know Memphis was looking at him, but that would be a perfect fit. A lot of similarities between Memphis and Southern Miss.

UNTLifer · October 23, 2008

$$$$.....where will they come from? How are you going to buy this coach out, hire the next one at a decent salary, and start the capital campaign? Something would have to give, dollars are getting scarce for everybody. Sounds negative, but there are only so many to go around. Bower, or somebody like him, is going to want more than Dodge. Also, did not know Memphis was looking at him, but that would be a perfect fit. A lot of similarities between Memphis and Southern Miss.

Buyouts are b.s. Why should a school have to pay off a coach that doesn't produce? Does this happen in any other line of work?

Regarding Deloach, I really don't know how he would manage the program. I don't see Deloach as a "Dickey guy," but one that will do things his way.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · October 23, 2008

Buyouts are generally a function of the money already being budgeted anyway. Those things are negotiated upfront, for the most part, when the coach signs the contract.

Bower was paid his alotted $500k for 2007, given a "buyout" of $400k, and is being paid $125k this year and next.

The reason we mention Bower and guys like Steve Logan is that they built good programs from low-paying, thankless jobs at places like USM and ECU. Both of those guys' successful on the field product reaped benefits off the field in building a strong donor base as well.

In short, they already know how to do it on and off the field. It appears more and more like Dodge has no clue about either.

And, it's no personal slam against the man. He's never had to do it. These other guys have. They did it and remained consistent for years. Ungrateful AD's then took the programs fattened by them, and cut them loose...as if you could just skate by on the history of ECU and USM. Very arrogant.

But, they are now both out there, and coaches like to coach. They don't like to sit around and watch TV. Many of us say we'd like to be paid $125k for two years to sit and watch TV and play golf. These guys don't mind. But, they know the rewards are greater when they are on the sidelines coaching a program to winning seasons. They know because they've been there and done it in similar situations.

For all of the caterwauling of Dickey and Dodge about the stadium, there are guys out there that would take the job, be grateful, and make something of it.

Edited October 23, 2008 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

Travis Scott · October 23, 2008

bottom line...Dodge isn't going anywhere after this season. He only has 1.5 recruiting classes under his belt. This bickering is pointless as is the effort for those who constantly complain about our program.