I Don't Know What's More Embarrassing?

[gangrene]

student body, that we're practically having to beg to get an athletic fee passed. An athletic fee that would be a fraction of what other FBS schools currently have.

If I had to pick one, I'd definitely go with the student body. I am simply amazed with the selfishness and the complete lack of vision some members of our student body are currently exhibiting. I'm hoping that this anti-stadium, what's-in-it-for-me, make-the-donors-pay-the-entire-bill crowd is not remotely representative of the whole. I guess we'll find out soon enough. I just don't understand how these students can form such a strong opinion on something they don't even bother to research and understand. Some of the arguments I've heard against the referendum are just absurd.

"Why should we reward a crappy team?" - So, if the team is good in three years, you're just going to hope for a stadium to sprout up overnight?? Because that's about the only way you could "reward" a team with a new stadium. Why didn't we "reward" the SBC Champion teams we had a few years ago?

"Why should the students have to pay for it if we don't use it?" - I have to pay a hell of a lot of money for city school taxes too. I don't use those and I don't have any kids in school right now either. Maybe I should write to my tax assessor and complain that it's not fair to expect me to pay for something I'm not using?

"Students don't go to UNT for the football team." - Well, I didn't go to UNT for the music program either. So what. I'm not even going to respond to that one.

"If the alumni want the stadium, then they should pay for it." - Well, I'll contribute as much as I can possibly afford. But, I want a signed affidavit from every student that votes no, stating that they will never be allowed to attend a UNT football game or discuss UNT football, or otherwise benefit from the addition of a new UNT football stadium, as long as they shall live.

I just don't understand why the concept of utilizing a student fund for the purpose of athletics is so foreign and repulsive to these students when every university already does this. Or, I guess they would prefer that the alumni pay for everything to do with athletics like Sam Houston State (I think that was the school) had to collect money from their football forum members to pay for new shoulder pads.

If this referendum fails, I will forever hang my head in shame when I mention that I graduated from UNT...at least during football season. Because a vote against this referendum shows that our students really don't care about anyone but themselves and, little do they know, they will be handicapping themselves for years to come...to what degree is really anyone's guess. However, I occasionally have to hire fresh college graduates and I've hired a couple of UNT grads. If this vote fails, that will be the second question I ask them after learning that he/she graduated from UNT. A "no" will result in a thanks, but we have plenty of other applicants to interview response.

[Cr1028]

"If the alumni want the stadium, then they should pay for it." - Well, I'll contribute as much as I can possibly afford. But, I want a signed affidavit from every student that votes no, stating that they will never be allowed to attend a UNT football game or discuss UNT football, or otherwise benefit from the addition of a new UNT football stadium, as long as they shall live.

Unfortunately, this is not possibe. If a new stadium brings more notariety or an improved image of our university, it will increase the value of ever UNT graduate's degree whether we want it to or not. The ones against it want to hold the rest of us down.

[SilverEagle]

Has anyone published what students at B-12 schools have to pay for tickets to football/basketball games.....which are in addition to the athletic fees that they pay.

[cdawgrun]

student body, that we're practically having to beg to get an athletic fee passed. An athletic fee that would be a fraction of what other FBS schools currently have.

If I had to pick one, I'd definitely go with the student body. I am simply amazed with the selfishness and the complete lack of vision some members of our student body are currently exhibiting. I'm hoping that this anti-stadium, what's-in-it-for-me, make-the-donors-pay-the-entire-bill crowd is not remotely representative of the whole. I guess we'll find out soon enough. I just don't understand how these students can form such a strong opinion on something they don't even bother to research and understand. Some of the arguments I've heard against the referendum are just absurd.

"Why should we reward a crappy team?" - So, if the team is good in three years, you're just going to hope for a stadium to sprout up overnight?? Because that's about the only way you could "reward" a team with a new stadium. Why didn't we "reward" the SBC Champion teams we had a few years ago?

"Why should the students have to pay for it if we don't use it?" - I have to pay a hell of a lot of money for city school taxes too. I don't use those and I don't have any kids in school right now either. Maybe I should write to my tax assessor and complain that it's not fair to expect me to pay for something I'm not using?

"Students don't go to UNT for the football team." - Well, I didn't go to UNT for the music program either. So what. I'm not even going to respond to that one.

"If the alumni want the stadium, then they should pay for it." - Well, I'll contribute as much as I can possibly afford. But, I want a signed affidavit from every student that votes no, stating that they will never be allowed to attend a UNT football game or discuss UNT football, or otherwise benefit from the addition of a new UNT football stadium, as long as they shall live.

I just don't understand why the concept of utilizing a student fund for the purpose of athletics is so foreign and repulsive to these students when every university already does this. Or, I guess they would prefer that the alumni pay for everything to do with athletics like Sam Houston State (I think that was the school) had to collect money from their football forum members to pay for new shoulder pads.

If this referendum fails, I will forever hang my head in shame when I mention that I graduated from UNT...at least during football season. Because a vote against this referendum shows that our students really don't care about anyone but themselves and, little do they know, they will be handicapping themselves for years to come...to what degree is really anyone's guess. However, I occasionally have to hire fresh college graduates and I've hired a couple of UNT grads. If this vote fails, that will be the second question I ask them after learning that he/she graduated from UNT. A "no" will result in a thanks, but we have plenty of other applicants to interview response.

Excellent post, most students are too naive to understand the benefits of a new stadium 30 years from now...we have an extraodinary amount of students that dont think past the present situation--pure ignorance and definitely the most embarrassing--i dont care if we go 0-12 for 10 yrs in a row, they're still worse

[Mean'n'Green07]

Excellent post, most students are too naive to understand the benefits of a new stadium 30 years from now...we have an extraodinary amount of students that dont think past the present situation--pure ignorance and definitely the most embarrassing--i dont care if we go 0-12 for 10 yrs in a row, they're still worse

Not sure if it's naive or apathetic. True story: In my business policy group we had a girl wear a UT shirt every day to class. I asked her if she likes UT so much why didn't she go there. Her response was basically she wished she was smart enough to get into UT, and had no interest whatsoever in anything involving UNT. This kind of s*** kills me.

Bottom line, if we don't have enough students interested in supporting a team, we don't deserve one. They'll get to decide in a week.

[FireFightnJoey]

Not sure if it's naive or apathetic. True story: In my business policy group we had a girl wear a UT shirt every day to class. I asked her if she likes UT so much why didn't she go there. Her response was basically she wished she was smart enough to get into UT, and had no interest whatsoever in anything involving UNT. This kind of s*** kills me.

She doesn't realize how pathetic that makes her look.

[NT80]

Bottom line, if we don't have enough students interested in supporting a team, we don't deserve one. They'll get to decide in a week.

Wrong. Students are an important part of a program's support, but only a fraction of the support and attendance. At most 1-A games and programs, students are a small part of the actual attendance and small part of the actual financial part needed to run a program. This issue is bigger than just student's deciding.

[Mean'n'Green07]

Wrong. Students are an important part of a program's support, but only a fraction of the support and attendance. At most 1-A games and programs, students are a small part of the actual attendance and small part of the actual financial part needed to run a program. This issue is bigger than just student's deciding.

Are you joking??? You're only talking about the elite programs in your argument. If you're not in a BCS conference, a huge chunk of athletics is funded through student fees. I would say you are correct with alumni out numbering students at games, but just because there are over 10 times the amount of total alumni vs. total students (again, excluding UT type schools which have the fan base of a professional team).

We have 150k alumni that live less than 45 minutes from campus, and we barely manage 20k in TOTAL attendance. As far as I'm concerned, it is up to the students. If this is going to be a legit 1-A program, it's the students today who will turn this program around. Not the vast majority of apathetic alumni who could care less.

[NT80]

Are you joking??? You're only talking about the elite programs in your argument. If you're not in a BCS conference, a huge chunk of athletics is funded through student fees. I would say you are correct with alumni out numbering students at games, but just because there are over 10 times the amount of total alumni vs. total students (again, excluding UT type schools which have the fan base of a professional team).

We have 150k alumni that live less than 45 minutes from campus, and we barely manage 20k in TOTAL attendance. As far as I'm concerned, it is up to the students. If this is going to be a legit 1-A program, it's the students today who will turn this program around. Not the vast majority of apathetic alumni who could care less.

Good luck running a program with only student support.

[ShopMeanGreen]

Lots of talk about how great Texas Tech is. Wonder how they got that way. Smaller school, smaller community and it's in Lubbock. Can anyone venture to guess SWC or Big 12. The whole community is behind Tech and it aint cause of the Pharmacy School (insert any college here).

[Guest Aquila_Viridis]

Are you joking??? You're only talking about the elite programs in your argument. If you're not in a BCS conference, a huge chunk of athletics is funded through student fees. I would say you are correct with alumni out numbering students at games, but just because there are over 10 times the amount of total alumni vs. total students (again, excluding UT type schools which have the fan base of a professional team).

We have 150k alumni that live less than 45 minutes from campus, and we barely manage 20k in TOTAL attendance. As far as I'm concerned, it is up to the students. If this is going to be a legit 1-A program, it's the students today who will turn this program around. Not the vast majority of apathetic alumni who could care less.

It is neither our alumni nor our students nor both of them together that could pull this program up. The university did not apparently connect very well with most alumni when they were students; while that is not a completely lost cause, it would provide only a minor pillar for support. The students? Sure, they can put in more, but it won't amount to much. Our university has done an abysmal job of connecting with the North Texas community. They haven't even tried. There are millions of people north of 635. UNT should spend all its money plastering the area with a UNT presence until the people identified with it. Then they would be ashamed if it sucked and they'd help do something about it. That is the ONLY way out of this mess.

[Mean'n'Green07]

Good luck running a program with only student support.

Never said a team couldn't exist without alumni support... but a larger % of the student body makes it to the game than the % of alumni who live in the area. If this is going to be a big time program, it's up to the students of today. All I was saying is that given current alumni support, if we can't get a few thousand students to vote yes then we don't deserve to be in I-A.

[Mean'n'Green07]

It is neither our alumni nor our students nor both of them together that could pull this program up. The university did not apparently connect very well with most alumni when they were students; while that is not a completely lost cause, it would provide only a minor pillar for support. The students? Sure, they can put in more, but it won't amount to much. Our university has done an abysmal job of connecting with the North Texas community. They haven't even tried. There are millions of people north of 635. UNT should spend all its money plastering the area with a UNT presence until the people identified with it. Then they would be ashamed if it sucked and they'd help do something about it. That is the ONLY way out of this mess.

This isn't El Paso. The average DFW sports fan won't identify with a mid major program - they have many sporting options and the competition is fierce. I've been to a TCU game where they were ranked in the top 20, and they barely had 35k in attendance.

[NT80]

Never said a team couldn't exist without alumni support... but a larger % of the student body makes it to the game than the % of alumni who live in the area. If this is going to be a big time program, it's up to the students of today. All I was saying is that given current alumni support, if we can't get a few thousand students to vote yes then we don't deserve to be in I-A.

I believe the students will do the right thing. Regardless of their views on athletics or aged stadiums it is an enhancement to the university as a whole and the image overall of the school, much like the new business building will be or the concert hall was when it was built. It shows support for and added value to their degree in progress.

[Guest Aquila_Viridis]

This isn't El Paso. The average DFW sports fan won't identify with a mid major program - they have many sporting options and the competition is fierce. I've been to a TCU game where they were ranked in the top 20, and they barely had 35k in attendance.

I don't know how much they have tried to connect with the community. I don't spend much time in Fort Worth, not that there's anything wrong with that. (I actually like Fort Worth and went to Jr. High there and worked downtown one summer.)

I didn't say it was easy to do. Of course, that is why our university has not tried. However, don't you find it just insane that UNT has not used its one HUGE and unique advantage in its proximity to one of the nation's largest and most dynamic metropolitan areas? There should be a UNT marketing presence and there isn't one. The sports business is ALL about marketing and symbols, oh yeah and chicks and we've got those. All you've done is conjured up an excuse, and who knows if you're really right or not. The fact is there is no way to know what such a campaign might accomplish unless you actually do it. Let me say this, it won't cost $30 million.

Edited October 10, 2008 by Aquila_Viridis

[stebo]

I can't really get a feel as to how the vote is going because the majority of the replies on that ed piece are from alumni or non-students. It seems to me that there are really only 2 or 3 students against it - about 5 or 6 for it - and then the normal group of idiots using up space to complain about the school, RV, his son, and how LEED is not really important but some sort of "scam"... Next they will try to convince me that ACORN voters don't really exist or something... hmmm, can we get ACORN to register students for the vote?

Edited October 10, 2008 by stebo

[Green Mean]

Everyone has good points but this whole process is a collaboration from all parties. The students are a huge part of it because it enhances the atmosphere around the games, campus pride etc. If they have pride for the university now and connect, then in 10-15 years they will most likely be giving back to the school and athletics. Alumni and donors are important too as they are what makes things afloat right now. I am not sure I really care about the alumni who dont care...forget the 100K plus alumni that dont care because chances are they wont come back. Thats why this whole thing is about the future and it is not done overnight. If the vote passes I will say it is going to be about a 5-10 year process in which the alumni base and pride will be building assuming we can start winning with football and basketball on a consistent basis. The fact is that everyone needs to come together to make this thing work. If we win then more people will come to games and a TON more students will want to attend the games in the new stadium. If you build it and win...they will all certainly come.

[TIgreen01]

This thread is ridiculous. When you have the level of success, on the football field, that we've had recently you're going to have a bunch of negative feelings from the students on campus towards the program. When I was first starting out at UNT ('96), OU was mired in mediocrity and the Big 12 was only in it's first year. They were having losing seasons and seasons where they barely broke .500. I took a couple of trips up there to visit friends and some of the same apathetic statements you hear right now from our students were being said there...at a school with arguably one of the top 5 reputations in the country! OU was never going to stay at the bottom for long b/c the quality of the program they had built was just going to keep throwing money at the problem until it got resolved....but if you had talked to the students (who had seen nothing but losing seasons for 4-5 years) who had a much shorter vision of the program you'd have thought they wouldn't care if the program just went away.

The point is, this kind of stuff happens no matter where you go. String together 4+ losing years (so that the students who are seniors have never seen winning teams) and you're going to have students who don't want to be associated with a losing program and just want to get their degree and move on. The key is having leadership that will stay the course and is not as easily swayed as the typical college student.