Nt Daily Comes Out Against Stadium

Green Dozer · October 10, 2008

You can put lipstick on Fouts all you want, but.........

Now you are really reaching. Pleaaaaaaaaaassssssssssssssseeeeeeeeeeee.

meangreendork · October 10, 2008

Wait a sec.

I thought we had CONCRETE reasons why we can't keep Fouts:

1.) TXDoT wants to expand I35, and this includes taking a chunk out of the land that Fouts sits on.

2.) The water table doesn't allow for deeper digging to alter sightlines.

3.) Much of the work needing to be done to Fouts includes the power sources and major structural and foundation work that would basically be tearing deep enough into the facility.

NT80 · October 10, 2008

Wait a sec.
I thought we had CONCRETE reasons why we can't keep Fouts:
1.) TXDoT wants to expand I35, and this includes taking a chunk out of the land that Fouts sits on.
2.) The water table doesn't allow for deeper digging to alter sightlines.
3.) Much of the work needing to be done to Fouts includes the power sources and major structural and foundation work that would basically be tearing deep enough into the facility.

Yes, but don't let the facts get in some fans way that still want to renovate that place.

DeepGreen · October 10, 2008

Renovate Fouts? :blink: And what happens to the beautiful athletic center, dorms, etc., that were built over at Eagle Point? This is crazy talk! Build a freakin new stadium and do something right for a change.

ShopMeanGreen · October 10, 2008

Renovate Fouts? And what happens to the beautiful athletic center, dorms, etc., that were built over at Eagle Point? This is crazy talk! Build a freakin new stadium and do something right for a change.

Great point. I am sooooo sick of GOOD ENOUGH! NT is the best public music school in the country, can't we improve something else for a change?

Todd

Green Dozer · October 10, 2008

Yes, but don't let the facts get in some fans way that still want to renovate that place.

First, this post is not to draw you into an argument or debate, so this is not an attack to have a fight. NT80, you seem to be an intelligent person, and maybe you can see what my concerns are. Nobody else can, they think I am just being negative. Making comments about renovating Fouts does not mean, at least for me, that I want to go that way. That said, can you realistically answer these questions:

1) Our program is presently underfunded. Lets say the fee increase does pass, the students are only responsible for half, correct? Where is the rest of the money going to come from? (and please do not use the corporate sponsor argument)

2) Now, you have your stadium. Please do not add in a corporate sponsor as that is not going to happen anytime soon. Where is the money going to come from to bring the program to even at a mid-major competitve level, when donor dollars are going to the new stadium? Who is going to make up the difference? The reason I ask this is how are you going to improve coaches salaries, keep the weight room modernized, strength coach, everything to run a modern day div. 1 program. A new stadium is not going to bring that, and if the team is like it is right now, the stadium will not make any difference.

You know, it just seems we have a "build it and they will come attitude." If only it were that easy. Look forward to your reply.

Green Mean · October 10, 2008

First, this post is not to draw you into an argument or debate, so this is not an attack to have a fight. NT80, you seem to be an intelligent person, and maybe you can see what my concerns are. Nobody else can, they think I am just being negative. Making comments about renovating Fouts does not mean, at least for me, that I want to go that way. That said, can you realistically answer these questions:
1) Our program is presently underfunded. Lets say the fee increase does pass, the students are only responsible for half, correct? Where is the rest of the money going to come from? (and please do not use the corporate sponsor argument)
2) Now, you have your stadium. Please do not add in a corporate sponsor as that is not going to happen anytime soon. Where is the money going to come from to bring the program to even at a mid-major competitve level, when donor dollars are going to the new stadium? Who is going to make up the difference? The reason I ask this is how are you going to improve coaches salaries, keep the weight room modernized, strength coach, everything to run a modern day div. 1 program. A new stadium is not going to bring that, and if the team is like it is right now, the stadium will not make any difference.
You know, it just seems we have a "build it and they will come attitude." If only it were that easy. Look forward to your reply.

You have constantly brought these points up and they are valid but I think the $7 increase is for all of that stuff you are talking about. This is a work in progress and a stadium is the start. I dont think we really know what will happen after the vote other than a big part of the program will change with the new stadium. Lets first get this stadium first and then go from there.

yyz28 · October 10, 2008

First, this post is not to draw you into an argument or debate, so this is not an attack to have a fight. NT80, you seem to be an intelligent person, and maybe you can see what my concerns are. Nobody else can, they think I am just being negative. Making comments about renovating Fouts does not mean, at least for me, that I want to go that way. That said, can you realistically answer these questions:
1) Our program is presently underfunded. Lets say the fee increase does pass, the students are only responsible for half, correct? Where is the rest of the money going to come from? (and please do not use the corporate sponsor argument)
2) Now, you have your stadium. Please do not add in a corporate sponsor as that is not going to happen anytime soon. Where is the money going to come from to bring the program to even at a mid-major competitve level, when donor dollars are going to the new stadium? Who is going to make up the difference? The reason I ask this is how are you going to improve coaches salaries, keep the weight room modernized, strength coach, everything to run a modern day div. 1 program. A new stadium is not going to bring that, and if the team is like it is right now, the stadium will not make any difference.
You know, it just seems we have a "build it and they will come attitude." If only it were that easy. Look forward to your reply.

Dozer...

It is called DEBT FINANCING. let's make the assumption you want a $200,000 home. Well, I guess you better just write a check for $200,000 or you can't have it. Oh, what's that? a mortgage? Really? Neat-O! Well, guess what. The University can do the exact same thing! So, we don't have to have the enitre cost of construction to break ground or even to play the first game in the stadium. We have a strong bond rating and I expect we plan to use it...

You dump all over corporate sponsorship, but we currently have corporate sponsors and the idea that we can't get SOME of the money from corporate sponsors to pay for this project, and probably get more from existing sponsors to advertise in a better venue. Naming rights are still real possibilities, despite the doom and gloom so many spout. (Ameircan Airlines is and has been on the verge of bankruptcy for YEARS, yet their name is still on our Arena downtown.) I'm not banking on this to be the entire answer, but to dismiss it as not part of the answer is foolish.

We also don't know how much private money has been pleged. If I were a big doner and had, say, 10Million to give to this project, I would pledge it with a condition of say... the athletics fee passing so after we're done with the stadium we have the funds to build the programs, pay the coaches and continue to expand our athletics. In other words, NOBODY on this board, and probably nobody other than RV and GB know what kind of donations will be a part of this project assuming we get the support from the students we are hoping for.

Oh, and what's that? Is that? YES IT IS! It's a nicer stadium for people to buy season tickets to. Hey, season ticket sales just jumped 20%. HOT DAMN! MGC membership has spiked? Hummmm... Maybe we can go ahead and bump those ticket prices up a couple of dollars. More revenue, and a lower cost to operate means the stadium will partially pay for itself simply on operations.

You and I have had a couple of good private conversations. I know you're just trying to be a voice of reason and constraint and you love this program and are not trying to be negative for sake of being negative. ...but I wish you'd try and really look at the positives of this. All you have to do is look at similar programs and you'll see how an improvment like this energizes the alumni, helps attendance and recruiting. It's happened before, so why assume it won't here?

Edited October 10, 2008 by yyz28

NT80 · October 10, 2008

First, this post is not to draw you into an argument or debate, so this is not an attack to have a fight. NT80, you seem to be an intelligent person, and maybe you can see what my concerns are. Nobody else can, they think I am just being negative. Making comments about renovating Fouts does not mean, at least for me, that I want to go that way. That said, can you realistically answer these questions:
1) Our program is presently underfunded. Lets say the fee increase does pass, the students are only responsible for half, correct? Where is the rest of the money going to come from? (and please do not use the corporate sponsor argument)
2) Now, you have your stadium. Please do not add in a corporate sponsor as that is not going to happen anytime soon. Where is the money going to come from to bring the program to even at a mid-major competitve level, when donor dollars are going to the new stadium? Who is going to make up the difference? The reason I ask this is how are you going to improve coaches salaries, keep the weight room modernized, strength coach, everything to run a modern day div. 1 program. A new stadium is not going to bring that, and if the team is like it is right now, the stadium will not make any difference.
You know, it just seems we have a "build it and they will come attitude." If only it were that easy. Look forward to your reply.

First, just so you know what the situation is:

1) Fouts has a limited lifespan left, even with patchwork upkeeps RV said six to eight more years tops. Renovation is not cost effective nor possible.

2) The I-35E expansion will move the frontage road to within ~20 feet of the Fouts front gate, thus no parking or entry out front if it's even able to remain there.

3) Then where we will play? Denton ISD stadium? Capacity 12K. SMU? Ha. New Cowboy's stadium in Arlington?

4) As others have mentioned, the student fees will allow for bonding out the stadium (to be paid off like a mortgage). In the meantime, revenue from donors (public phase, most MGC members and University supporters have not been asked for a stadium donation yet), sponsors and advertising signage (large revenue whether you acknowledge it or not) will contribute to the payoff, estimated at half the cost.

It is NOT practical nor possible to keep Fouts. Sorry, but that's the main answer in a nutshell.

Edited October 10, 2008 by NT80

bstnsportsfan3 · October 10, 2008

First, this post is not to draw you into an argument or debate, so this is not an attack to have a fight. NT80, you seem to be an intelligent person, and maybe you can see what my concerns are. Nobody else can, they think I am just being negative. Making comments about renovating Fouts does not mean, at least for me, that I want to go that way. That said, can you realistically answer these questions:
1) Our program is presently underfunded. Lets say the fee increase does pass, the students are only responsible for half, correct? Where is the rest of the money going to come from? (and please do not use the corporate sponsor argument)
2) Now, you have your stadium. Please do not add in a corporate sponsor as that is not going to happen anytime soon. Where is the money going to come from to bring the program to even at a mid-major competitve level, when donor dollars are going to the new stadium? Who is going to make up the difference? The reason I ask this is how are you going to improve coaches salaries, keep the weight room modernized, strength coach, everything to run a modern day div. 1 program. A new stadium is not going to bring that, and if the team is like it is right now, the stadium will not make any difference.
You know, it just seems we have a "build it and they will come attitude." If only it were that easy. Look forward to your reply.

you do not know what your talkign about...not trying to be mean, but when i took the 1st stadium tour with RV a few weeks ago...he told the group thier is several companies in the running for the $30 million corporate sponsership but he doesnt wanna go that way if we can get enough alumni donations....but thier are companies willing to put up the money...and they will if we need them.

Edited October 10, 2008 by bstnsportsfan3

greenminer · October 10, 2008

The proposed fee of $67.50 may not seem like much money in itself, but when added to the $75 student recreation center fee and tuition and other student fees, it can add up fast.
However, we feel that supporting the proposed athletic fee is a necessity for the growth and prestige

..but when compared to what UTSA, UTA, WKU, Texas State, where does it stand? What is our expectation here? (Rhetoric, but feel free to chime in anyways)

NT80 · October 10, 2008

Say Yes to Fee
Athletics fee will create a better NT
Issue date: 2/28/02 Section: VIEWS

This article is 6 years old, and that vote failed (so much for their influence). What have they done lately besides publish a bogus poll and opposing editorials? :angry:

CMJ · October 10, 2008

This article is 6 years old, and that vote failed (so much for their influence). What have they done lately besides publish a bogus poll and opposing editorials?

So a publication that doesn't agree with your views should be shut down?

Nice.

Look, I disagree with their view on the fee too. But it's their opinion. That's what the editorial page in ANY paper is all about. If I wanted every paper that published an editorial I disagreed with shut down newspapers probably wouldn't exist.

filmerj · October 10, 2008

So a publication that doesn't agree with your views should be shut down?
Nice.
Look, I disagree with their view on the fee too. But it's their opinion. That's what the editorial page in ANY paper is all about. If I wanted every paper that published an editorial I disagreed with shut down newspapers probably wouldn't exist.

Don't worry, papers will all be gone soon, thank you interwebs!

Edited October 10, 2008 by filmerj

NT80 · October 10, 2008

So a publication that doesn't agree with your views should be shut down?
Nice.
Look, I disagree with their view on the fee too. But it's their opinion. That's what the editorial page in ANY paper is all about. If I wanted every paper that published an editorial I disagreed with shut down newspapers probably wouldn't exist.

What does that have to do with the article being six years old? I know an editorial is an editorial but their staged poll was editorially endorsed to sway voting. I could poll 300 select students too and it would be a different result. This isn't just a fee for athletics, it's a fee to bring the athletic facilities and athletic program (and the University in general) into the modern era like all other University functions.

Edited October 10, 2008 by NT80

Smitty · October 10, 2008

What does that have to do with the article being six years old? I know an editorial is an editorial but their staged poll was editorially endorsed to sway voting. I could poll 300 select students too and it would be a different result. This isn't just a fee for athletics, it's a fee to bring the athletic facilities and program,and the University in general, into the modern era like all other University functions.

Just asking: how do you know it was a staged or biased poll?

CMJ · October 10, 2008

I was more refering to your post from yesterday.

The Daily should be shut down.

And your ensuing posts made it obvious you still felt the same way.

NT80 · October 10, 2008

Just asking: how do you know it was a staged or biased poll?

I have my sources. :ph34r:

NT80 · October 10, 2008

I was more refering to your post from yesterday.
And your ensuing posts made it obvious you still felt the same way.

A University sponsored and supported newspaper shouldn't be used to deride and stunt said University.

CMJ · October 10, 2008

A University sponsored and supported newspaper shouldn't be used to deride and stunt said University.

Hey, if they don't want to support the athletics, that's their call. That's not "stunting" the University. Gimme a freaking break.

That's like saying a newspaper that endorses a candidate you don't agree with is stunting the future of the USA.

GreenMachine · October 10, 2008

Hey, if they don't want to support the athletics, that's their call. That's not "stunting" the University. Gimme a freaking break.
That's like saying a newspaper that endorses a candidate you don't agree with is stunting the future of the USA.

would it be okay if they hammered the music dept for not putting out very many famous musicians or the art dept for not putting out rich and famous painters?

CMJ · October 10, 2008

would it be okay if they hammered the music dept for not putting out very many famous musicians or the art dept for not putting out rich and famous painters?

It's an editorial....of course. It gets them ready for the real world in the newspaper buisness. Editorials by the very nature are supposed to stir the emotions either good or bad. They are often controverisal. That's their whole point.

Green Mean · October 10, 2008

It is an editorial...its not supposed to be a neutral. Get over it.

rcade · October 10, 2008

It is an editorial...its not supposed to be a neutral. Get over it.

Exactly. If they had backed the fee vote, we'd love them. The Daily's editorial board is just one group on campus among many, and they have as much right to their opinion as anybody else. Some students aren't going to support any increase in fees, no matter how good the reason.

GreenMachine · October 10, 2008

It is an editorial...its not supposed to be a neutral. Get over it.

First off, there is nothing to get over, I'm asking a question. Second, I'm not referring to the editorial, I know what the hell an editorial is. I'm asking about the school newspaper in general.