Well That Didn't Take Long

Quoner · October 8, 2008

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3632904

I guess when you know, you just know.

GoMeanGreen1999 · October 8, 2008

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3632904
I guess when you know, you just know.

These big boy schools don't waste too much time if someone is not producing.

Edited October 8, 2008 by GoMeanGreen1999

gangrene · October 8, 2008

These big boy schools don't waste too much time if someone is not producing.

You mean they didn't give him a "free pass" for the first four years, so he could get his offensive players in place? How RUDE.

GoMeanGreen1999 · October 8, 2008

You mean they didn't give him a "free pass" for the first four years, so he could get his offensive players in place? How RUDE.

Yea, it is kind of backwards over there in the SEC and those big conferences - they want to WIN NOW, and so they just figure if a guy isn't getting it going 5 games into a season, he probably isn't going to get it going I guess. That guy should come to the Belt.

Dodge2007 · October 8, 2008

You mean they didn't give him a "free pass" for the first four years, so he could get his offensive players in place? How RUDE.

Auburn wanted a lot of offense and wanted to have the dynamic spread that Franklin was credited for at Troy. That was a quick hook.

I guess Tommy wants to go back to the power I and play action stuff and leave the finesse football behind.

eulessismore · October 9, 2008

Interesting. Colleyville Heritage, the team that Euless Trinity faces this Friday night, has a coach who attended "The Tony Franklin System Seminar" (I think Franklin had to divest his interest in the "system" under SEC rules and it is now just "The System Seminar". He implemented it at Heritage, the winningest program Trinity will face so far this year. Lineweaver took his entire coaching staff to a seminar; he says the play is so fast paced that it wears out the offense executing it, requiring rotating the entire offense frequently. Supposedly, the seminar teaches an effective screen pass, if nothing else.

filmerj · October 9, 2008

we'll they have the cash to hire whom ever they want. :blink:

RETSO · October 9, 2008

Maybe just maybe, the Spread offense has been figured out by D1 Def cordinators...

we may be seeing the end of the spread, not the begining.

my limited coaching knowledge tells me unless you have a dual threat Vince Young running the show at QB, the spread can and will be shut down.

A hybrid spread like Mizzou runs can work...if you a solid TE and QB like Chase Daniel...at least it works until you run into a Def with size and speed....(see OU)

Eagle1855 · October 9, 2008

Maybe just maybe, the Spread offense has been figured out by D1 Def cordinators...

yup, give me a balanced pro-style offense like USC over the spread any day. Of course, you have to have the athletes...

Green Dozer · October 9, 2008

Maybe just maybe, the Spread offense has been figured out by D1 Def cordinators...
we may be seeing the end of the spread, not the begining.
my limited coaching knowledge tells me unless you have a dual threat Vince Young running the show at QB, the spread can and will be shut down.
A hybrid spread like Mizzou runs can work...if you a solid TE and QB like Chase Daniel...at least it works until you run into a Def with size and speed....(see OU)

RETSO,

Isn't the offense at OU a spread? But, yes a Vince Young sure helps. One other thing is that the West Coast Offense made it into the college ranks, but the spread never has caught on in the NFL (remember the run n gun days of Houston and Atlanta). So, I think when you come up against a defense with speed, you are in trouble. And the SEC has a lot of fast defenses.

Green Dozer · October 9, 2008

yup, give me a balanced pro-style offense like USC over the spread any day. Of course, you have to have the athletes...

Yep, and I think we would be more successful now as well. For the most part, the colleges in Div. 1 who are the most successful year in and year out run more of a pro-style offense.

RETSO · October 9, 2008

RETSO,
Isn't the offense at OU a spread? But, yes a Vince Young sure helps. One other thing is that the West Coast Offense made it into the college ranks, but the spread never has caught on in the NFL (remember the run n gun days of Houston and Atlanta). So, I think when you come up against a defense with speed, you are in trouble. And the SEC has a lot of fast defenses.

Yes, but the true spread it is not. OU has several gifted TE's that can roam in the middle of the zone, not to mention speedy WR's to go deep. If anything I think the OU offense is a hybrid...very similar to Mizzou.

My point is, the UNT Dodge spread does not work in the D1 landscape of college football..just my opinion....

Green Dozer · October 9, 2008

Yes, but the true spread it is not. OU has several gifted TE's that can roam in the middle of the zone, not to mention speedy WR's to go deep. If anything I think the OU offense is a hybrid...very similar to Mizzou.
My point is, the UNT Dodge spread does not work in the D1 landscape of college football..just my opinion....

I see the point about the tight end. I think even Leach at TT uses a tight end. But to your main point, you are right about Dodge.

Green Guy Bass · October 9, 2008

Maybe just maybe, the Spread offense has been figured out by D1 Def cordinators...
we may be seeing the end of the spread, not the begining.
my limited coaching knowledge tells me unless you have a dual threat Vince Young running the show at QB, the spread can and will be shut down.
A hybrid spread like Mizzou runs can work...if you a solid TE and QB like Chase Daniel...at least it works until you run into a Def with size and speed....(see OU)

I agree with every word in this post.

LAZER · October 9, 2008

I think that Dodge's offense could work much better if he used a TE in the basic formation. We have talented TE's and I think Dodge should give it a try. I like Dodge and I think he is a good coach despite the on field product (which I think is a result of a divided locker room and various other off field issues we do not know about). My only problem with Dodge as a coach is I do not think he has been open enough to changing his offensive game to more fit the college game.

LoveMG · October 9, 2008

i admire auburn for making a change when needed and not waiting until they are 2-10. if only unt could learn to do the same.

Arkstfan · October 9, 2008

The spread is like every new scheme, you get a period before people figure out how to defend it. Once that happens better talented, better prepared teams win.

Spread teams score buckets of points against inferior teams in large part because they can't use a lot of clock, that same thing means getting slobber knocked by better teams at times, it means not being able to milk the clock trying to protect a close lead.

Texas Tech is 2-6 against OU and 1-7 against Texas since Leach arrived. Mizzou is 0-5 vs. Oklahoma and 0-3 vs. Texas since Pinkel arrived.

The spread like all offenses relies on mismatches. Most pass defenses can't effectively cover everyone while mounting a good pass rush to limit the amount of time receivers and backs have to get open. When ASU played MTSU, the Raiders loaded up to stop the run and dared ASU to beat them in the air, MTSU's secondary wasn't up to the man-to-man challenge. Memphis tried the same thing and has a much better secondary.

Franklin's scheme might have worked at Auburn, reading between the lines it seems the players weren't buying his coaching and that may have been a result of the players not rallying behind one QB more than his coaching except to the degree he failed to decisively anoint a starter. However, most SEC teams are so good across the board that teams create their mismatches by flooding one point on the field with more players than the other team can get to that point to counter-act. The spread relies on getting enough ground between defensive players that they can't quickly assist when an individual mis-match is exposed. In the SEC you just don't get enough easy to exploit one-on-one mismatches.

Charlie NT 73 · October 9, 2008

All the Troy fans are pissed at Tubby for firing Franklin, and not giving Franklin

the time he needed to develop his spread offense.

Franklin wanted to bring more Troy assistants with him to install his offense

because the current Auburn coaches did not help.

Tuberville has been on thin ice for a long time anyway, so to save his rear end,

he fires TF, and says he will run the offense. Yeah, right!

Looks like all the Troy fans want Franklin back into the Troy football program

someway, as a consultant or recruiting coordinator.

One posting says TF and LB have already talked.

http://www.gotroytrojans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11523

CMJ · October 9, 2008

All the Troy fans are pissed at Tubby for firing Franklin, and not giving Franklin
the time he needed to develop his spread offense.
Franklin wanted to bring more Troy assistants with him to install his offense
because the current Auburn coaches did not help.
Tuberville has been on thin ice for a long time anyway, so to save his rear end,
he fires TF, and says he will run the offense. Yeah, right!
Looks like all the Troy fans want Franklin back into the Troy football program
someway, as a consultant or recruiting coordinator.
One posting says TF and LB have already talked.
http://www.gotroytrojans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11523

I guess you missed the last couple of years when Auburn did nearly anything to keep him when he was being courted by other schools.

Green Mean · October 9, 2008

If Dodge gets the boot do you think we would consider him as the next HC? He runs the same type of offense and had mad success at Troy. I think he would be a good person to look at. Plus just a half season seems a bit odd to fire your new OC who is instilling a new system. Tuberville seems to be saving his rear first.

SilverEagle · October 9, 2008

yup, give me a balanced pro-style offense like USC over the spread any day. Of course, you have to have the athletes...

I'll take that offense that Tulsa runs.

Eagle1855 · October 9, 2008

I'll take that offense that Tulsa runs.

Me too if it means we get to play UNT 12 times a year! ha. I have to laugh or I'll cry.

SilverEagle · October 9, 2008

Me too if it means we get to play UNT 12 times a year! ha. I have to laugh or I'll cry.

Well, it worked even better against Rice.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · October 9, 2008

The spread is like every new scheme, you get a period before people figure out how to defend it. Once that happens better talented, better prepared teams win.
Spread teams score buckets of points against inferior teams in large part because they can't use a lot of clock, that same thing means getting slobber knocked by better teams at times, it means not being able to milk the clock trying to protect a close lead.
Texas Tech is 2-6 against OU and 1-7 against Texas since Leach arrived. Mizzou is 0-5 vs. Oklahoma and 0-3 vs. Texas since Pinkel arrived.
The spread like all offenses relies on mismatches. Most pass defenses can't effectively cover everyone while mounting a good pass rush to limit the amount of time receivers and backs have to get open. When ASU played MTSU, the Raiders loaded up to stop the run and dared ASU to beat them in the air, MTSU's secondary wasn't up to the man-to-man challenge. Memphis tried the same thing and has a much better secondary.
Franklin's scheme might have worked at Auburn, reading between the lines it seems the players weren't buying his coaching and that may have been a result of the players not rallying behind one QB more than his coaching except to the degree he failed to decisively anoint a starter. However, most SEC teams are so good across the board that teams create their mismatches by flooding one point on the field with more players than the other team can get to that point to counter-act. The spread relies on getting enough ground between defensive players that they can't quickly assist when an individual mis-match is exposed. In the SEC you just don't get enough easy to exploit one-on-one mismatches.

Excellent points...I made the same ones when Dodge was hired. And, I'll go you one further: FBS defensive coordinators had "the spread" figured out long before Dodge hit town.

On the West Coast, wide open passing games have been the norm since the 1960s. The treand made its way eastward over the next couple of decades. In the 1990s, guys like Hal Mumme and Steve Spurrier were winging it around in some form of spread. Jack Pardee did it at Houston (college and por).

That's why hiring experienced, college coaches counts. They've seen the stuff over and over again for years. Again, the few like me who went ahead and stated the facts back in December 2006 were scorned by the beguiled here.

There's nothing wrong with having great success in high school. But, there is a reason so few high school coaches have ever been hired to jump to the highest level of college football. Despite all of their football knowledge, they really don't understand how fast and strong the competition is - even, as we've found out twice, the lowliest like FIU have it.

I waver between feeling sorry for Todd Dodge and being angry with him. Sorry because he really is in over his head, more than any of us could have ever guessed. But, angry in that he bought so much of his own hype that he didn't bring on a full compliment of experienced, collegiate coaches when he made the jump.

I now believe that Dodge really, honestly thought he could just install his system and take the college ranks by storm. Short-sighted. Very short-sighted. He admitted as much when he said in December that the speed of opposing defensive backs surprised him. It shouldn't have. And, it wouldn't have surprised a more experienced coach and staff. A more experienced coach and staff would have already known what lay ahead in the FBS world speed-wise.

If Dodge survives this season, it will be a true test to see whether or not he cleans house and goes out and gets bona fide college coaches. I hope, for our sake, that he does.

If not, bring on Steve Logan, Jeff Bower, Tim Billings, or any other coach with ties to this region who understand what's going on and how to prepare for it week in and week out.

Edited October 9, 2008 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

eulessismore · October 10, 2008

I'll take that offense that Tulsa runs.

Are you aware that Gus Malzahn is best known for his "wildcat offense", a version of the old single wing, which some consider a precursor to the spread.

Gus Malzahn link