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[Green P1]

Thanks for your reply. I am not offended. Thank you for increasing your donations, but there are not enough heavy hitters (especially million dollar ones) to see a substantial increase. Fouts is not the only reason we were not invited to another conference, lack of support for us to be competitive on a yearly basis is another reason. Lets say people like you increase your donation for the stadium, what about the money to adequately support the rest of the program? Where will it come from? Money for better coaches salaries, support staff, strength coaches, keeping the weight room up to date etc. I knew there would be plenty disagree with me because they see this stadium as the magic wand. Has a new stadium greatly enhanced SMU's program? A lot of folks on this board seem to think that is our measuring stick. No, everything is not accurate. If we just got to "average" support as compared to other universities our size, then we would really accomplish something. Seems to me we want to jump from say A to D all of sudden. Not asking anybody to agree, and I do not expect them to agree.

What are you even arguing at this point?

[Green Dozer]

FBS schools that build new stadiums get an increased national profile. Better teams come in, and the national networks are more likely to travel there because the amenities are better (particularly the technical broadcast stuff). If you doubt any of this, look at what's happened to UCF since the Golden Knights built their on-campus stadium. The Texas Longhorns came in to open up the place and they get more nationally televised games. The stadium's put them on the map. They could be the next USF.

UNT can't get corporate donors because there's no place to entertain them at Fouts. UNT also loses out on donors who are waiting to see if the stadium push is real before committing to it. I'm one of those people. I haven't given a dollar yet to the Stadium Capital Fund. I will after this vote passes and the stadium's really being built.

rcade:

Do you have the address for the Stadium Capital Fund? I have asked a couple of athletic department people, but their faces went so blank they could not tell me.

[Green Dozer]

What are you even arguing at this point?

Well, when we fund the stadium, what about the rest of the program? I mean to make it competitive to match the stadium and do the things (i'm sure the stadium is the answer to all our problems) that need to be done for a DIV 1 program to be competitive. I mean, the student fee takes care of 1/2, which is $30 million. Lets forget the corporate donation, no way at this time. So, we as donors have got to come up with $30 million. Look at our record so for. Our total athletic budget is $15 million, i think, not sure. I guess that was my argument/question, what about everything else to improve the football program besides THE STADIUM. If you can answer it, then you would be the first.

[rcade]

And, we are not losing out on donors for the stadium. There were rumors in the 70's that if a big name coach was brought in, the donors would step up.

If you want to use stuff that happened in the '70s to dismiss the possibility that something good could happen now, there's really not much I can say to persuade you. There are plenty of reasons to be cynical if you've followed this program for a long time.

A year ago you could have said that students will never pony up any money to pay for part of a $60 million stadium, and a lot of people here would've agreed. Yet here we are with several thousand members of the Students for a New Stadium Facebook group eagerly promoting the proposal. It's got a good shot to win if the vote gets out.

At this point, I think time's running out for UNT to field a viable FBS program at Fouts. Either we replace the stadium or we're done.

[Green Dozer]

If you want to use stuff that happened in the '70s to dismiss the possibility that something good could happen now, there's really not much I can say to persuade you. There are plenty of reasons to be cynical if you've followed this program for a long time.

A year ago you could have said that students will never pony up any money to pay for part of a $60 million stadium, and a lot of people here would've agreed. Yet here we are with several thousand members of the Students for a New Stadium Facebook group eagerly promoting the proposal. It's got a good shot to win if the vote gets out.

At this point, I think time's running out for UNT to field a viable FBS program at Fouts. Either we replace the stadium or we're done.

Hey rcade, right on! I just don't want promises to made that can't be kept, have heard to many before, and you get leary. Just hope the donors really will step up, but been there/heard that to. Yes, WE NEED THE STADIUM OR WE ARE DEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADDDDDDDDDDDDDD! But my point, which I cannot seem to get across, is there is a lot more to it than where you and I will plant our butts 6 or so Saturdays a year.

[UNTflyer]

So, the donors have to foot 30 million dollars roughly half our present total athletic budget, I think not sure.

A good portion of that (about 2/3) will come from a corporate sponsor. I can't say more.

[Sound_Man]

A good portion of that (about 2/3) will come from a corporate sponsor. I can't say more.

atleast give us a or for good measure

[UNTflyer]

[Green Dozer]

A good portion of that (about 2/3) will come from a corporate sponsor. I can't say more.

Well one really big one pulled out, I know for a fact.

[JesseMartin]

Subtext in the middle of all the arguing: many donations, especially when earmarked, can't be announced for a project that has yet to be approved. There may even be a huge donation waiting in the wings that Flyer doesn't know about, because there are a lot of rules (laws) about donations. The AD can take a "pledge" but no actual earmarked cash to be announced (unless I missed something). Hell, they might have $30 million in pledges lined up and we wouldn't know about it. They might be lowballing estimates, because unfortunately, in a waiting game like this, it's more likely a pledged donation will fall through than if it had already been approved.

Right now there isn't much to do other than wait for the vote.

[LongJim]

*sigh!*

[Green Mean]

*sigh!*

What the hell?????

[Green Dozer]

Right............but wrong.

Yes, all that is needed to start construction is the student vote, along with legislature approval. So, we start, and we buy bonds or whatever? Those payments come due, the fee has not kicked in, so where does the rest of the money comes from? Oh, the corporate sponsor, please? The donors, well I bought 5 raffle tix, so yes I increased my donation. And the legislature may well want to know where the rest of the money, aside from the student fee, is coming from. I am sure, if you answer, you will run me in the ground. We will need a lot more nickels!

[UNTflyer]

So, we start, and we buy bonds or whatever? Those payments come due, the fee has not kicked in, so where does the rest of the money comes from?

That's not how it works. We don't have to start paying the bonds until construction is completed. That's when the student fee begins.

[Green Dozer]

That's not how it works. We don't have to start paying the bonds until construction is completed. That's when the student fee begins.

OK, I stand corrected. But you are going to still need donor money, and you can bet somebody is going to want to know where that is going to come from before a spade of dirt is turned on this thing. My understanding is that the students are responsible for half correct? So, that is $30 million. What about the other $30 million? Bet somebody says they will have to see at least $15 million at least from donors before construction begins.

[untbowler]

OK, I stand corrected. But you are going to still need donor money, and you can bet somebody is going to want to know where that is going to come from before a spade of dirt is turned on this thing. My understanding is that the students are responsible for half correct? So, that is $30 million. What about the other $30 million? Bet somebody says they will have to see at least $15 million at least from donors before construction begins.

I would imagine donors will come out of the woodwork once they realize the stadium is for real and not some pipe dream that has been consistently talked about for 20+ years.

[Green Dozer]

I would imagine donors will come out of the woodwork once they realize the stadium is for real and not some pipe dream that has been consistently talked about for 20+ years.

Don't take this personal, but what woodwork? Are they going to sneak a trojan horse onto North Texas? Nobody can seem to answer why these donors didn't step up when we were winning championships just a few short years ago. What about when we went from Div. II to Div I? You would think a few would have stepped up then. Same thing in the 70's with Hayden Fry. Didn't people have money then to. And I am sorry, I just do not see where this money is going to come from. We have $90 million dollars in endowment which is very low for a university our size and age. Yet, you want me to believe that this program can raise $60 milllion dollars (only 1/2 can come from the student fee, so that leaves $30 million from donors/corporate sponsor), generate enough stadium revenue to maintain the stadium, and there will be enough to fund the football program so its competitiveness can match the stadium. What about coaches salaries? What about jocks? What about strength coaches? What about top notch tutors to keep these players on the field? By the way, there will be no corporate sponsor anytime soon. You know, we got a bargain with the publicity we got from hiring Dodge given our ability to pay coaches. We want find a bargain like that next time, so we better be prepared to pay.

But, you really believe there are these donors who have been holding back because of Fouts that will step up, and do all of this? Man, talk about a pipe dream.

[Got5onIt]

*sigh!*

Texas Tech Pocket Pool, classic!!

[untbowler]

Don't take this personal, but what woodwork? Are they going to sneak a trojan horse onto North Texas? Nobody can seem to answer why these donors didn't step up when we were winning championships just a few short years ago. What about when we went from Div. II to Div I? You would think a few would have stepped up then. Same thing in the 70's with Hayden Fry. Didn't people have money then to. And I am sorry, I just do not see where this money is going to come from. We have $90 million dollars in endowment which is very low for a university our size and age. Yet, you want me to believe that this program can raise $60 milllion dollars (only 1/2 can come from the student fee, so that leaves $30 million from donors/corporate sponsor), generate enough stadium revenue to maintain the stadium, and there will be enough to fund the football program so its competitiveness can match the stadium. What about coaches salaries? What about jocks? What about strength coaches? What about top notch tutors to keep these players on the field? By the way, there will be no corporate sponsor anytime soon. You know, we got a bargain with the publicity we got from hiring Dodge given our ability to pay coaches. We want find a bargain like that next time, so we better be prepared to pay.

But, you really believe there are these donors who have been holding back because of Fouts that will step up, and do all of this? Man, talk about a pipe dream.

and what exactly has RV done to really get the alumni to actually believe a stadium is on the way? Quarterly Meetings? Good Communication from the AD Office? Great Fundraising Guru who knows how to handle Alumni and not piss them off?

I personally think RV should be gone whether the vote passes or fails. He has done some great things for the department but Helwig and cronies had also run the program into the ground prior to his arrival, so improvement should be evaluated from what it was.

RV has promised many things and yes he has had many things fall into his lap but in reality he has done way to much smoke and mirrors and many alumni do not know what to believe anymore, myself included.

Edited October 9, 2008 by untbowler

[Eagle-96]

Don't take this personal, but what woodwork? Are they going to sneak a trojan horse onto North Texas? Nobody can seem to answer why these donors didn't step up when we were winning championships just a few short years ago. What about when we went from Div. II to Div I? You would think a few would have stepped up then. Same thing in the 70's with Hayden Fry. Didn't people have money then to. And I am sorry, I just do not see where this money is going to come from. We have $90 million dollars in endowment which is very low for a university our size and age. Yet, you want me to believe that this program can raise $60 milllion dollars (only 1/2 can come from the student fee, so that leaves $30 million from donors/corporate sponsor), generate enough stadium revenue to maintain the stadium, and there will be enough to fund the football program so its competitiveness can match the stadium. What about coaches salaries? What about jocks? What about strength coaches? What about top notch tutors to keep these players on the field? By the way, there will be no corporate sponsor anytime soon. You know, we got a bargain with the publicity we got from hiring Dodge given our ability to pay coaches. We want find a bargain like that next time, so we better be prepared to pay.

But, you really believe there are these donors who have been holding back because of Fouts that will step up, and do all of this? Man, talk about a pipe dream.

Either you don't get it or you don't want to get it. The fee is an athletic fee, not a stadium fee. Some of the money will be used to pay off some of the debt that the university issues to fund the construction of the stadium. The fee can also be used for other athletic needs as well such as salaries, equipment, maintenace and upkeep for a new stadium, etc...as there is no sundown provision to phase the fee out that I know of. Do you think corporations will now stop advertising alltogether because of the economy. No more commercials, billboards, ads, etc... The answer is no. The naming and secondary rights for the new stadium are, in essence, advertising for the companies. There names will be there for all to see during football games, band competitions, concerts, as well as for the thousands of cars that pass by on a daily basis. You don't have to attend a Mavericks or Stars game to see the giant AA at the American Airlines center if you drive on 35E. When I graduated there was no Rec Center, Health Center, Gateway Center but I paid for them with my student fees and I am glad I did because it is for the greater good of the University.

[Green Dozer]

Either you don't get it or you don't want to get it. The fee is an athletic fee, not a stadium fee. Some of the money will be used to pay off some of the debt that the university issues to fund the construction of the stadium. The fee can also be used for other athletic needs as well such as salaries, equipment, maintenace and upkeep for a new stadium, etc...as there is no sundown provision to phase the fee out that I know of. Do you think corporations will now stop advertising alltogether because of the economy. No more commercials, billboards, ads, etc... The answer is no. The naming and secondary rights for the new stadium are, in essence, advertising for the companies. There names will be there for all to see during football games, band competitions, concerts, as well as for the thousands of cars that pass by on a daily basis. You don't have to attend a Mavericks or Stars game to see the giant AA at the American Airlines center if you drive on 35E. When I graduated there was no Rec Center, Health Center, Gateway Center but I paid for them with my student fees and I am glad I did because it is for the greater good of the University.

OH Yea, you get it. Your the only one who has called it an athletic fee, congratulations. What about the money that the fee won't cover? NO, i certainly do not think advertising will stop but comparing our situation with the stars/mavs and AA Center is a reach. Why would a corporation sponsor us? No real tv coverage, bearly 15K in attendance, under funded program which has got to improve. RV says we can't throw pennies while others throw dollars at a program and he is right. A corporation can get just as much advertising for a lot less than $20 million with billboards at 35 and 35E. You just think that this stadium is just the fix all, and its not. The NFL, MLB, NBA all say corporate dollars are pulling back, but you think some company is going to come to Denton, and plop down 20 million dollars. Concerts? Give me a break. Band competitions? The only ones in the stadium would be the bands, and they are to busy playing music to know who the sponsor is. Will it help? Certainly, but unless we can properly fund the rest of the program, which I do not think we can given our present donor level (raffle tickets and locker purchase are not going to make a dent) then we will just suck in new digs. I get it, you don't.

[GreenMachine]

Why would a corporation sponsor us? No real tv coverage, bearly 15K in attendance, under funded program which has got to improve.

Corporations spend money on advertising to get their name out to the public. Do you realize how many vehicles pass by the area where the new stadium will be? It doesn't matter how many games on TV, attendance or even the record of the team, the number of cars (eyeballs) is enormous. That is what these sponsors are looking at. They will be getting a huge bang for their advertising dollar. Also, I work at a huge national company and see the budgets for the entire corp. We spend so much on advertising we could pay for a new stadium many times over with one years advertising budget. Companies spend a ton of money to advertise, in good economic times and in bad.

[Eagle-96]

OH Yea, you get it. Your the only one who has called it an athletic fee, congratulations. What about the money that the fee won't cover? NO, i certainly do not think advertising will stop but comparing our situation with the stars/mavs and AA Center is a reach. Why would a corporation sponsor us? No real tv coverage, bearly 15K in attendance, under funded program which has got to improve. RV says we can't throw pennies while others throw dollars at a program and he is right. A corporation can get just as much advertising for a lot less than $20 million with billboards at 35 and 35E. You just think that this stadium is just the fix all, and its not. The NFL, MLB, NBA all say corporate dollars are pulling back, but you think some company is going to come to Denton, and plop down 20 million dollars. Concerts? Give me a break. Band competitions? The only ones in the stadium would be the bands, and they are to busy playing music to know who the sponsor is. Will it help? Certainly, but unless we can properly fund the rest of the program, which I do not think we can given our present donor level (raffle tickets and locker purchase are not going to make a dent) then we will just suck in new digs. I get it, you don't.

I never said the stadium is the "fix all". I don't think it is. What I do think is that it is a piece of the puzzle to a better athletic department and better university. When we have hosted higher profile teams to play at Fouts(Baylor, TCU, Tulsa, SMU) we have had some of the highest attendance figures. A new stadium will attract higher profile teams. Higher attendance means more ticket revenue. More fans mean more concession revenue and more parking revenue. Why wouldn't companies "plop" down money to put there name(s) on the new stadium. We don't need one company, we need several that are willing to pay money in return for their name on one of the most traveled interstates in the country. And beleive me a name on a stadium is MUCH more visible than a billboard. Alot of donors want to see that the universty and students are serious about improvement before they are willing to give more to the program. I think that passage of the fee will show the commitment they are waiting to see. I want to be clear that I am, in no way, trying to attack you. I think we both want a better athletic program and better university. You wouldn't post on this board if you didn't .

[rcade]

The Murchison Performing Arts Center was built at UNT for a cost of $17 million and is a showpiece for the university. A new stadium could play the same role. When students use the current record of the team as justification not to back it, it makes me wonder whether they'd change their vote if the team was 3-2 or 4-1. Surely what's being decided here is bigger than the current won-loss record of the team.

[Green Dozer]

I never said the stadium is the "fix all". I don't think it is. What I do think is that it is a piece of the puzzle to a better athletic department and better university. When we have hosted higher profile teams to play at Fouts(Baylor, TCU, Tulsa, SMU) we have had some of the highest attendance figures. A new stadium will attract higher profile teams. Higher attendance means more ticket revenue. More fans mean more concession revenue and more parking revenue. Why wouldn't companies "plop" down money to put there name(s) on the new stadium. We don't need one company, we need several that are willing to pay money in return for their name on one of the most traveled interstates in the country. And beleive me a name on a stadium is MUCH more visible than a billboard. Alot of donors want to see that the universty and students are serious about improvement before they are willing to give more to the program. I think that passage of the fee will show the commitment they are waiting to see. I want to be clear that I am, in no way, trying to attack you. I think we both want a better athletic program and better university. You wouldn't post on this board if you didn't .

I just do not believe the donor support is at such a level, nor can it get there anytime soon, to make this program successful. We will still be an underfunded program in a new stadium. And we won't have to go to Norman, Austin, or Baton Rouge to get our teeth kicked in. They can come here and do it. Anyway, here is an article that might be of interest. I think we both make good points and I appreciate your reply.

PRO SPORTS

Pro leagues facing economic pinch

NFL, Formula One, soccer leaders express concern.

ASSOCIATED PRESS

Thursday, October 09, 2008

The professional sports world is feeling the pinch of the economic downturn.

The NFL faces challenges, commissioner Roger Goodell said in San Antonio on Wednesday.

Responding to questions during a business leaders luncheon, Goodell said the NFL is not recession-proof, citing stadium financing and struggles by the league's sponsors as specific problems.

European soccer teams burdened with heavy debts could be banned from competitions if they fail to deal with their financial problems.

Formula One's future is at stake because of the global credit crunch, and the auto racing circuit's leading figures are trying to find a way to cut costs in a sport long linked to celebrities, glamour and big money.

Goodell said borrowing money has become difficult and expensive as credit has tightened, potentially hampering stadium projects, and many companies that the league relies on for sponsorships have had to cut back.

Fans, worried about their household finances, are feeling the effects also, he said.

"We're all feeling the pinch right now, some more than others, and it's something we want to remain sensitive to," Goodell said, speaking at the University of the Incarnate Word.

San Antonio wants an NFL franchise, but Goodell said expanding the number of teams isn't being seriously considered.

David Taylor, general secretary of European soccer's governing body, warned that teams with heavy debts would face the "ultimate sanction."

The first meeting exploring how to overhaul the license requirements to enter UEFA competitions will be held Monday, although there is no timetable for its implementation.

"Let there be no doubt, we are not sitting idly by," Taylor said. "We are looking at strengthening the minimal financial criteria and other forms of self regulation that may impose greater standard on clubs that want to compete in European competitions and beyond that club football.

"The whole concept of financial fair play is about living within your means and your resources, which can also mean having debt but being able to service that debt."

Max Mosley, Formula One's president, and Luca di Montezemolo, who chairs the body that represents Formula One's 10 teams, met Wednesday to start discussions on how the sport will navigate this crisis.

Mosley warned at the meeting in Nice, France, that if drastic cost reductions aren't in place within two years the $4.7 billion F1 empire could be in peril.

"It has become apparent, long before the current difficulties, that Formula One was unsustainable," Mosley said Tuesday. "It really is a very serious situation. If we can't get this done for 2010, we will be in serious difficulty."

Mosley is championing budget caps and hybrid technology, hoping they will keep F1 significant to the average fan unimpressed by the spectacle of racing at night in Singapore or around the famous street course of Monaco.

"The days when they could just toss out the 100, 200, 300 million euros a year, which is what Formula One costs those big companies, I think they are finished," Mosley said.