Doomsday Scenario

mad dog · October 7, 2008

I have a mentor in my business (government finance) who told me once, "when explaining your budget, always start with the worst case scenario. That way, (insert decision making body) can only be taken by surprise in a good way."

In that vein of thinking, and in light of Rick V's latest comments, what if the worst happens this season? What if we are looking back in December on a winless season, cutthroat attrition due to transfers and suspensions, and a failed athletic fee vote? What if we are listening in stunned disbelief as Rick Villareal announces that North Texas can no longer remain competitive in Division 1 football, and, without additional funding, we cannot support the program?

I would love to think that this scenario can't happen. I hope and pray that we can find enough positives to use this as a building year. I put my full faith in the student body of North Texas to step up and save this program, because it looks like it might be the only way. I have never needed so badly to belive that I'm just caught up in our current freefall. But, if it ever were to happen, wouldn't the conditions we are seeing this season, coupled with a failed fee vote, be a perfect recipe for the unthinkable?

I'm by nature a planner. I feel much more comfortable when there are contingency plans in place. And, the question rolling around in my head is "how do I actively support my school if my medium is removed?" I guess the easy answer is just donate to the school instead of athletics; I imagine the Department of Public Administration would see some more dollars as a result. But I can't cheer for my graduating department the same way I cheer for the football team. Research and development doesn't instill the same passion as touchdowns and victories. I wish North Texas well, and only want the best for it, but who do I cheer for on Saturday if not my Mean Green?

As I said before, I hope this is nothing more than the rambling of a depressed fan. But I can't shake the feeling that the unthinkable is becoming dangerously close to possible.

PerryG2480 · October 7, 2008

I put my full faith in the student body of North Texas to step up and save this program

Ouch.

If teams like Temple, Kent State, Ball State, San Jose State, Eastern Michigan, etc. continue to field D-I football teams for years and years, we should be able to as well. At least I hope so.

Quoner · October 7, 2008

Wow I hope an admin takes down this negativity...wait...whaaaa?

UNT_playmaker · October 7, 2008

Let's pray this never happens, but it could be a possiblity if we go winless, more dissent as a result, and a failed athletic vote.

The question is "Will people still blame Dickey as a result or will our fans finally man up and start to put the blame on Todd Dodge for the embarrassment that has resulted from his hire and that of his staff?

Or will people put blame on RV for hiring Todd Dodge in the first place and the program's demise is its end result?

eppy4life · October 7, 2008

i blame scrappy for all of this.

Edited October 7, 2008 by eppy4life

UNT_playmaker · October 7, 2008

Ouch.
If teams like Temple, Kent State, Ball State, San Jose State, Eastern Michigan, etc. continue to field D-I football teams for years and years, we should be able to as well. At least I hope so.

Ball State is a F**&^% Top 25 team

SJSU, Temple and company show improvement and can beat OOC opponents or at least stay close into the 4th quarter. They have stadiums that arent run by generators from Lowe's and are

in a regional conference that supports in state rivals. They are in a position that supports their team. We are out of place in the SBC.

The main reason we want a stadium is to find the rivals and conference that would be our best fit.

We will get out of this stump and we will succeed but we need to pass the athletic fee,, build the damn stadium, and find some new coaches who can coach college Division I football...

PerryG2480 · October 7, 2008

Ball State is a F**&^% Top 25 team
SJSU, Temple and company show improvement and can beat OOC opponents or at least stay close into the 4th quarter. They have stadiums that arent run by generators from Lowe's and are
in a regional conference that supports in state rivals. They are in a position that supports their team. We are out of place in the SBC.
The main reason we want a stadium is to find the rivals and conference that would be our best fit.
We will get out of this stump and we will succeed but we need to pass the athletic fee,, build the damn stadium, and find some new coaches who can coach college Division I football...

Ball State hasn't always been a Top 25 team. The teams I mentioned are ones that have had periods of losing similar to what we are experiencing right now. The fact that they play more regional rivals has nothing to do with it. Our conference isn't the problem...as the rest of the Sun Belt gets better, we need to learn to keep up.

greenminer · October 7, 2008

I like to think the stadium fee will pass, and that is the bigger picture than Dodge.

With an athletic budget fueled by the 7 dollar/hour increase, we can budget for a future in FBS football. It is modest, but enough that I feel comfortable that doomsday will be avoided, and we can afford whatever happens the next 1 - 2 seasons.

We are UNT. We were here before Dodge, and we'll be here after him.

mad dog · October 7, 2008

I'm not saying the program is going to tube it because of five lost games, or ten, or twenty. Historically, as I'm reminded by our elder posters, this team has gone through some pretty shabby seasons. And it is worth noting that this season isn't even halfway over, so there's plenty of time for a turnaround.

What I'm saying is that, given a hypothetical cocktail of a season of non-competitive blowouts, complete or near complete talent erosion due to transfers and suspensions, and a failed stadium vote looks like a perfect storm for our program. Quite frankly, that is a terrifying thought. And if football ever tanks, would we find ourselves in the grimly ironic situation of having to cut women's programs to be Title IX compliant?

All of this serves to highlight just how important that athletic fee vote is. If nothing else goes our way this season but the vote, the future is bright. If not...

Let's pray this never happens, but it could be a possiblity if we go winless, more dissent as a result, and a failed athletic vote.

CMJ · October 7, 2008

We'd still have basketball tho!

Yeah...it'd be rather grim. But I don't think it will ever, ever happen.

jdennis82 · October 7, 2008

yes, i've reached the point where basketball is the contingency plan.

DeepGreen · October 7, 2008

If the stadium fee is rejected, here's my 6 step approach-

1. RV Out

2. Dodge Out

3. Hire a new AD

4. Drive home the point that North Texas will field a successful FBS football program

5. Hire a football coach with successful college coaching experience; show the fans our University is committed to excellence, in academics, facilities, and athletics

6. Keep trying to raise money for a new stadium

The University of North Texas should never, ever give up on FBS football and the quest for top notch facilities. If they do, and I don't care if UNT is the "best bang for the buck", UNT as a University will suffer.

UNT_playmaker · October 7, 2008

Im sure alot of people will love that the football is in a demise.

That is the whole reason those SOB's got rid of Norval Pohl. It's because he was sooooo pro-athletics and understood this. They brought that outsider (President) to make sure athletics wasnt going to take over our school and they have been successful thus far. If football is cut or brought down to Div 2 standards, then that is an added bonus for them.....

Man i dont why I am so pissed off today about North Texas Football, I need to go outside and breath some fresh air....

UNT_playmaker · October 7, 2008

If the stadium fee is rejected, here's my 6 step approach-
1. RV Out
2. Dodge Out
3. Hire a new AD
4. Drive home the point that North Texas will field a successful FBS football program
5. Hire a football coach with successful college coaching experience; show the fans our University is committed to excellence, in academics, facilities, and athletics
6. Keep trying to raise money for a new stadium
The University of North Texas should never, ever give up on FBS football and the quest for top notch facilities. If they do, and I don't care if UNT is the "best bang for the buck", UNT as a University will suffer.

Do you believe that RV would be out before Dodge and then the new AD would quickly show the door to Coach Dodge.....??????????

The Fake Lonnie Finch · October 7, 2008

I have a mentor in my business (government finance) who told me once, "when explaining your budget, always start with the worst case scenario. That way, (insert decision making body) can only be taken by surprise in a good way."
In that vein of thinking, and in light of Rick V's latest comments, what if the worst happens this season? What if we are looking back in December on a winless season, cutthroat attrition due to transfers and suspensions, and a failed athletic fee vote? What if we are listening in stunned disbelief as Rick Villareal announces that North Texas can no longer remain competitive in Division 1 football, and, without additional funding, we cannot support the program?
I would love to think that this scenario can't happen. I hope and pray that we can find enough positives to use this as a building year. I put my full faith in the student body of North Texas to step up and save this program, because it looks like it might be the only way. I have never needed so badly to belive that I'm just caught up in our current freefall. But, if it ever were to happen, wouldn't the conditions we are seeing this season, coupled with a failed fee vote, be a perfect recipe for the unthinkable?
I'm by nature a planner. I feel much more comfortable when there are contingency plans in place. And, the question rolling around in my head is "how do I actively support my school if my medium is removed?" I guess the easy answer is just donate to the school instead of athletics; I imagine the Department of Public Administration would see some more dollars as a result. But I can't cheer for my graduating department the same way I cheer for the football team. Research and development doesn't instill the same passion as touchdowns and victories. I wish North Texas well, and only want the best for it, but who do I cheer for on Saturday if not my Mean Green?
As I said before, I hope this is nothing more than the rambling of a depressed fan. But I can't shake the feeling that the unthinkable is becoming dangerously close to possible.

Gonzaga has a great basketball program.

GreenAlums · October 7, 2008

Im sure alot of people will love that the football is in a demise.
That is the whole reason those SOB's got rid of Norval Pohl. It's because he was sooooo pro-athletics and understood this. They brought that outsider (President) to make sure athletics wasnt going to take over our school and they have been successful thus far. If football is cut or brought down to Div 2 standards, then that is an added bonus for them.....
Man i dont why I am so pissed off today about North Texas Football, I need to go outside and breath some fresh air....

UNT_playmaker, I have to say I believe it would be great for you to get some fresh air. I'm pretty close to Dr. B and I can tell you, if she were willing to allow football at UNT drop to Div 2 I would be more than just a little shocked. She hates to lose and hated the last football games with a passion just like you and I. My distinct impression is she is playing a little "Jerry Jones" in the matter and is in the mix to change things. And I don't necessarily want to leave the impression it's her wish to change people...just change things for the better. I really, really like Dr. P but he was a little complacent and not the shaker and mover we needed to get to the next level. Dr. B will get us there. At least that's what I believe until proven looney! The sky is NOT falling, just our hearts with ever football game like the previous 5!!

Cowtown · October 7, 2008

I have been thinking about this same subject for a while. I can deal with the bad teams. Dodge will either pull it together or be gone in 2 years. I can live with that...but what is so much more important is the Athletics vote. Should the vote fail, I have already told the wife, that I am done. Thats it for me. If the school isnt committed, neither am I.

I would rather give the $$$ to my Highschool (and future daughters HS for that matter) that got clobbered by 80 by Abeline last week.

Smitty · October 7, 2008

Moscow in flames, missiles on the way, film at 11:00.

DeepGreen · October 7, 2008

Do you believe that RV would be out before Dodge and then the new AD would quickly show the door to Coach Dodge.....??????????

Okay, reverse 1 & 2 if you wish. :blink:

TIgreen01 · October 7, 2008

If the stadium fee is rejected, here's my 6 step approach-
1. RV Out
2. Dodge Out
3. Hire a new AD
4. Drive home the point that North Texas will field a successful FBS football program
5. Hire a football coach with successful college coaching experience; show the fans our University is committed to excellence, in academics, facilities, and athletics
6. Keep trying to raise money for a new stadium
The University of North Texas should never, ever give up on FBS football and the quest for top notch facilities. If they do, and I don't care if UNT is the "best bang for the buck", UNT as a University will suffer.

Agree 1000%.

Green Mean · October 7, 2008

This is a great hypthotetical but I am not sure how to answer that. If the worst happens then we just need a shakeup as in we need a new AD and we need to consider getting rid of Dodge. RV has done a lot for athletics for North Texas and he should be commended for that but I am just not sur if he can take us to the next level. It seems that every athletics program is making advancing and then theres little ol North Texas that isnt able to make very much happen. Our stadium is literally falling apart yet we have a damn good shot in losing a fee for athletics and build a new stadium. If we give up football then so be it....we still have basketball and then we need to strive on being a basketball powerhouse in this region.

mad dog · October 7, 2008

This is a great hypthotetical but I am not sure how to answer that. If the worst happens then we just need a shakeup as in we need a new AD and we need to consider getting rid of Dodge. RV has done a lot for athletics for North Texas and he should be commended for that but I am just not sur if he can take us to the next level. It seems that every athletics program is making advancing and then theres little ol North Texas that isnt able to make very much happen. Our stadium is literally falling apart yet we have a damn good shot in losing a fee for athletics and build a new stadium. If we give up football then so be it....we still have basketball and then we need to strive on being a basketball powerhouse in this region.

I think you are speaking to the heart of what motivated my post. If it goes out the door, then what do we hang our hat on? If it is basketball, do we just shift focus to that, or do we roll in existing football funds to basketball? Would that affect our conference affiliation?

ADLER · October 7, 2008

Wow, if only there was some type of blueprint available, some material that clarified exactly how a very large suburban university with historically weak alumni support could fund a successful Division 1 athletics program, one that includes a competitive Bowl Championship Subdivision football program.

Don't click here, because This Doesn't Exist

:angry:

Edited October 8, 2008 by ADLER

Cerebus · October 7, 2008

Even if the stadium fee was to be rejected, football would not fold. NT would keep plugging along and try to find the best way to move forward.

Of course, if they fee were to fail, changes would have to be mad, to sate the blood-thirst of the (rightfully?) angry mob, but the school would not drop football out of FBS.

PS: This post reminds me of Scottygate.

mad dog · October 7, 2008

Even if the stadium fee was to be rejected, football would not fold. NT would keep plugging along and try to find the best way to move forward.
Of course, if they fee were to fail, changes would have to be mad, to sate the blood-thirst of the (rightfully?) angry mob, but the school would not drop football out of FBS.
PS: This post reminds me of Scottygate.

I keep hearing this, and I want to believe it. I just don't know how we can possibly know for sure. Have we ever faced a cocktail of circumstances like this before? Do we have an assurance or resolution from the Board or Dr. B that football will never fold no matter how bad things get? I admit that I might have missed out on a declaration, or some other action in the past that leads you to be certain of this. Please let me know your reasoning; I really need reassurance.