How Good Was Brian Waters At Unt?

rcade · October 5, 2008

UNT alumnus Brian Waters is a three-time All Pro offensive guard with the Kansas City Chiefs who has become a cornerstone of the franchise. He's the best NFL player to come out of Denton in 40 years.

According to Wikipedia, UNT has retired four numbers: Mean Joe Greene (75), Richard Gill (55), Ray Renfro (33) and Abner Haynes (28).

Not to change the subject off last night, or anything, but I was wondering if Waters' accomplishments at UNT were enough to make him the fifth number retired. Here's how his Chiefs bio describes his collegiate career:

Played in 44 career games for North Texas, starting at tight end for three years before switching to DE for his senior season … Hauled in 86 receptions for 975 yards and nine TDs in three years on offense … Recorded 45 tackles (32 solo), and 5.0 sacks … Started at DE and served as the backup TE as a senior, in addition to working at FB … Caught four passes for 66 yards with one TD as a senior … Earned first-team All-Big West Conference honors at defensive tackle … Finished his junior season with 27 receptions for 371 yards, including a 62-yard TD catch … Led the team with 28 catches and four TDs, gaining 272 yards of total offense as a sophomore … Played in all 11 games, recording 27 catches for 26 yards and four TDs as a freshman … Majored in Community Service at North Texas.

Though all the position moves reduced his numbers at UNT, he did make the Mean Green's all-time UNT team as a nose tackle and is a member of the school's Hall of Fame. He's one of the elite offensive lineman in the game, and has a shot at the NFL Hall of Fame.

It seems to me that Waters hasn't gotten as much attention for his UNT ties as he should, given his accomplishments in the NFL. Since having an elite NFL player is a feather in our cap, I think retiring his number would be a good move.

SilverEagle · October 5, 2008

UNT alumnus Brian Waters is a three-time All Pro offensive guard with the Kansas City Chiefs who has become a cornerstone of the franchise. He's the best NFL player to come out of Denton in 40 years.
According to Wikipedia, UNT has retired four numbers: Mean Joe Greene (75), Richard Gill (55), Ray Renfro (33) and Abner Haynes (28).
Not to change the subject off last night, or anything, but I was wondering if Waters' accomplishments at UNT were enough to make him the fifth number retired. Here's how his Chiefs bio describes his collegiate career:
Though all the position moves reduced his numbers at UNT, he did make the Mean Green's all-time UNT team as a nose tackle and is a member of the school's Hall of Fame. He's one of the elite offensive lineman in the game, and has a shot at the NFL Hall of Fame.
It seems to me that Waters hasn't gotten as much attention for his UNT ties as he should, given his accomplishments in the NFL. Since having an elite NFL player is a feather in our cap, I think retiring his number would be a good move.

I don't believe in retiring numbers. I suggested (a while back) that we un-retire the numbers that we have retired and start giving them to the outstanding players in the corresponding position...#28 goes to our outstanding RB #33 goes to our outstanding WR and/or RB, #55 goes to our outstanding Lb, #75 for our outstanding DL....etc. Brian Waters would be a tough one. I think his number during his whole tenure at NT was 85(?), and his position switch(s) would be problematic as well.

But I think we should find a way to honor him.

GrandGreen · October 5, 2008

Waters was a good player when at NT, not a great one. Maybe because at NT, he did not play offensive line but tight end and defensive line. IMO there are a number of players who played at NT that were better than Waters in the last four decades. Shankin, Ramsey, Kassel, Kennedy, Hardman, Walter Chapman, are a few that come to mind. Waters like J.T. Thomas, Beesly Reese and others became much better pros than their college careers would have indicated. Pro careers should have little to do with NT athletic honors.

Edited October 5, 2008 by GrandGreen

Marty · October 5, 2008

Waters was #40 at NT.

rcade · October 5, 2008

Pro careers should have little to do with NT athletic honors.

Part of the reason a school honors its greatest players is to help recruiting. The fact that an all-world O lineman went through UNT, and is still in the prime of his career, is something we can use to sell recruits on the program.